- Location
- Out and About
It wasn't Tanaka Rei barfed on. That was Takamori.
Advice and Trust [NGE]
It wasn't Tanaka Rei barfed on. That was Takamori.
BlackAeronaut
Scaring people witless since 1980
- Location
- A state of mind where it is always ****ing Monday.
.... For the record, if anyone is gonna draw something from this story, it must be this scene. :lol
khazit
Verified Skrull infiltrator
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Stargrave
Wine-drinking evil
- Location
- The White City
It's being condoned by the narrative.
Those are entirely different things though. I'm fine with them ordinary and fallible. I'm not fine with them being random jerks.
Always Late
Lacking in coffee, sleep, and brains
- Location
- Ohio
So simply having characters act a certain way in a story is automatically condoning those actions? You'll have to explain that.
I will not argue with them being jerks to a jerk, but to say the event is random is outright false and ignores previously established characterization. Asuka did run an entire week of fucking with Misato to prove they were mature enough to handle a sexual relationship, which Shinji joined in on. If that is also being random and jerkish, why didn't you say anything there?
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Stargrave
Wine-drinking evil
- Location
- The White City
It's not just having characters do stuff, but the tone of the scene, the way it's shaped and their actions are presented. The scene in question isn't presented as Shinji and Asuka overreacting to a minor squabble or some other fault of theirs pushing them into a less than desirable action. We're clearly supposed to emphasize with them and cheer for Shinji's outburst and sticking up for his lover. That's what I mean by the narrative condoning it.
Wat
Okay, first of all, I'm not really sure how that is relevant because those are two wildly different examples.
Second and more important, I recall saying an awful damn lot about it. :lol
I was practically bitching all the way through. I have a ton of problems with that part of the fic.
Always Late
Lacking in coffee, sleep, and brains
- Location
- Ohio
OK, I now understand how you came to that conclusion. I still respectfully disagree, and think you need to wait and see the consequences for that outburst. Please give Strypgia credit, he hasn't had the couple's actions go without repercussions.
Asuka acts petty, jerkish, and immature while thinking long-term with the 'convince Misato by trolling' plan. Shinji backs her up since he wants to be with Asuka. By your own description, Asuka acted petty, jerkish, and immature while thinking long-term in having her and Shinji make an open declaration to the class that they're together. Shinji backs up Asuka when she gets threatened since he wants to be with Asuka. The two incidents are very relevant, not the least of which is by their proximity. The declaration is one of the first big things the two of them do once Misato somewhat comes around.
Huh. My apologies, don't know how I missed/forgot those.
I've said my full piece, I see Strypgia's viewing this, I think this is a good place for me to step back and let the man himself answer your concerns if he feels up to it.
MarqFJA87
Proud member of Ala Iridia
- Location
- Saudi Arabia
She doesn't appear to do anything in "view" of the readers. The narrative at several points implied that she and others were being overbearing "off-screen", at least when it came to their attempts to cosy up with Shinji.
And I can actually see why Stryp wouldn't want to focus on that aspect, BTW: It happens so often in manga and anime with school settings that it's almost... formulaic, I guess is the word... and thus one who has seen enough of them could easily guess the next thing that should/may happen a few "moves" early and get it right 9 times out of 10. Yes, you can probably find ways to be creative with this scenario, but that almost certainly would require more time and effort than said scenario could be allotted, given that it's obviously far from the focus of the story. So if the only feasible option is to just repeat the basic formula... Why bother? Just hint at it and let the readers' imaginations fill in the blanks, while you focus on the real bread and butter of the plot.
Problem with that logic: They're teenagers too. And ones that have been under a lot of stress for the past few months from multiple sources: hiding their relationship from practically everyone (especially with Shinji continuing to be pursued by shallow-minded girls who aren't looking for a truly love-based relationship), being Evangelion Pilots (you cannot tell me that working with Ritsuko and Gendou as your superiors would not be stressful; and that's without factoring in the Angel-fighting...), dealing with the few of Nerv's dark secrets that they're beginning to uncover (from Rei's drug regimen to the Evas housing their mothers' souls), and lately being forced to stay apart for several nights in a row for the first time since they started their relationship.
I don't know about you, but I would be surprised if their thought processes didn't go "Fuck it, I have and continue to save the world from giant alien monsters that keep getting more weird and stupidly powerful with each new one, at increasingly rising risk to my life and that of my monster-killing teammates, and we all get little to no real credit or compensation for it (money isn't enough; we'd like some goddam respect and being treated as human beings rather than puppets/tools!). I can afford being possibly bratty/petty towards haughty bitches who are vehemently opposed to the one truly positive relationship that I've managed to form."
- Location
- United States
As far as the scene where Shinji and Asuka go public, I expected Asuka to unabashedly (and gleefully) rub her relationship in the other girls faces and relish in their defeat. She may have softened somewhat towards the people she cares about, but she's still Asuka. Belligerent, aggressive, and (at least as far as being an Eva Pilot) arrogant Asuka. And when it comes to Shinji, she IS extremely possessive. She's thouroghly hostile towards ANYONE else who approaches him romantically. Tanaka was one of the more persistent ones. Could Asuka have been nicer about the whole thing? Of course. But she's Asuka Langely Sohryu. She doesn't play nice (unless she likes you, and Tanaka is not one of those people).
Admittedly, Shinji WAS a bit hard on Tanaka himself, but she HAD just directly insulted Asuka, and if you do that, the gloves come off. Could he have been nicer? Sure. But he spoke his mind, stood up for Asuka, and made it perfectly clear to Tanaka that she was never even a contender. I felt he could have been nicer, but I applauded his unusually direct approach. Given that Shinji is more outspoken than his canon counterpart, I don't think its entirely out of character for him to snap at someone who angers him enough. And given that hurting or insulting Asuka is now his berserk button, anyone who does will, at best, receive a death glare or tongue lashing. And at worst...well, even canon Shinji is prone to uncharacteristic and frightening bouts of intense and even (ultimately) murderous rage. Just ask Shamshel, Asuka, and the NERV personnel who witnessed his rampage after what happened to Touji.
Admittedly, Shinji WAS a bit hard on Tanaka himself, but she HAD just directly insulted Asuka, and if you do that, the gloves come off. Could he have been nicer? Sure. But he spoke his mind, stood up for Asuka, and made it perfectly clear to Tanaka that she was never even a contender. I felt he could have been nicer, but I applauded his unusually direct approach. Given that Shinji is more outspoken than his canon counterpart, I don't think its entirely out of character for him to snap at someone who angers him enough. And given that hurting or insulting Asuka is now his berserk button, anyone who does will, at best, receive a death glare or tongue lashing. And at worst...well, even canon Shinji is prone to uncharacteristic and frightening bouts of intense and even (ultimately) murderous rage. Just ask Shamshel, Asuka, and the NERV personnel who witnessed his rampage after what happened to Touji.
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- Location
- National Capital Region, USA
While I'm glad this triggered discussion, I do feel Stargrave's points have some merit. What I was aiming for and what came across in that scene may not have been as aligned as I'd hoped.
Asuka's statement was my attempt at her dancing around actually saying 'I'm not even good enough for him. I don't even think someone as mean and worthless is me is good enough for Shinji, but at least I'm not as shallow as you. I love him, you just want a trophy.' I had her avoid directly saying that, and it was coated in a bit of Asuka's public arrogance, but it was supposed to be more like her praising Shinji than setting them both above the crowd.
The intent for Shinji was to show that he would react to an insult to Asuka with a sharp and pointed counter, underlining that while Shinji is still so low on ego he won't react much to attacks on himself, he can and will react severely to attacks on the girls he cares about. That was true in canon, and it's only enhanced by the much more potent relationship he has with Asuka here. If his last line comes off as too close to a mean-spirited threat, I can cut it. It was supposed to feel more like a 'I care a Hell of a lot more about her than about you. I'm not the kind of person to hit you, but if she thinks punching your face in is warranted, I'm not going to stop her.' than a threat.
If the result was it looking like they're trying to justify themselves on the basis of 'We're Eva Pilots, and just better than you', I failed. Though if they ended up sounding like stressed-out teenagers, at least I got that right. Though on the basis of this feedback, I might go back and rework Shinji's speech, or just cut that last line.
On the update front, 2000 words down, one complete scene, a second one if I can finish it out.
Asuka's statement was my attempt at her dancing around actually saying 'I'm not even good enough for him. I don't even think someone as mean and worthless is me is good enough for Shinji, but at least I'm not as shallow as you. I love him, you just want a trophy.' I had her avoid directly saying that, and it was coated in a bit of Asuka's public arrogance, but it was supposed to be more like her praising Shinji than setting them both above the crowd.
The intent for Shinji was to show that he would react to an insult to Asuka with a sharp and pointed counter, underlining that while Shinji is still so low on ego he won't react much to attacks on himself, he can and will react severely to attacks on the girls he cares about. That was true in canon, and it's only enhanced by the much more potent relationship he has with Asuka here. If his last line comes off as too close to a mean-spirited threat, I can cut it. It was supposed to feel more like a 'I care a Hell of a lot more about her than about you. I'm not the kind of person to hit you, but if she thinks punching your face in is warranted, I'm not going to stop her.' than a threat.
If the result was it looking like they're trying to justify themselves on the basis of 'We're Eva Pilots, and just better than you', I failed. Though if they ended up sounding like stressed-out teenagers, at least I got that right. Though on the basis of this feedback, I might go back and rework Shinji's speech, or just cut that last line.
On the update front, 2000 words down, one complete scene, a second one if I can finish it out.
Eh, I thought you conveyed the intent pretty well.
Man, @Strypgia, I wouldn't worry too much. I remember in my first story creating a completely false impression of my characters through the way they were acting and the dialogue they were using. I thought I had conveyed my intent pretty well, but the feedback told me otherwise. Writing is hard. 
RedrumSprinkles
The Fun Inquisitor
This was a really cool insight, and now that I can see your intentions behind the snip, the points you make become much more apparent. That being said, the snip still had a veneer of 'typical' AsuShin fic, where Shinji, by virtue of boning Askua, also puts some bones into his back. By adjusting the interactions a little bit (not too much), I feel like this snip would be an excellent way to show that despite their newfound love, they're not instantly cured of their assorted issues... and right now, the latter is just slightly more apparent than your stated intentions.
To clarify - it felt a little trite, where otherwise this fic has excelled at standing apart from the crowd.
Am I making sense? Am I crazy? Or is not just me?
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- Location
- United States
I agree with @TehChron @Strypgia. I think you made the point you intended. Besides, it's good for Shinji to show that he's not ALWAYS a shrinking violet/doormat anymore. I felt a little bad for Tanaka, but I dont think Shinji was wrong to be sharp with her either.
And like I said, Asuka acted very much in character. Wrong or not, it's how she is, and how she deals with people while in her arrogant public persona.
If people think this Asuka is unnecessarily mean to anyone not named Shinji, Kaji, Hikari, Misato (and she is still rather sharp with her sometimes) or in this story, Rei, should see how she acts towards one particular classmate in the fanfic Evangelion Genocide. Said classmate has the 'audacity' to playfully tease Asuka about having a thing for Shinji. Asuka beats up the poor girl, and even AFTER she and Shinji actually get together, still hates and belittles her for that one incident. This continues almost to the end of the story (she does make amends eventually though). Granted, this is 'canon' Asuka, post episode 24, so, it's not exactly surprising.
But, that's not really relevant to the point. The point is, A&T Asuka is still Asuka. She's not perfect and can be quite petty and bratty still. But given that most of her interactions in the story are with people she likes and cares about, it becomes easy to forget how venomous she can be when faced with people she doesn't like. It may not be a likeable quality, but it's all part of who Asuka is (or at least, part of her public persona).
And like I said, Asuka acted very much in character. Wrong or not, it's how she is, and how she deals with people while in her arrogant public persona.
If people think this Asuka is unnecessarily mean to anyone not named Shinji, Kaji, Hikari, Misato (and she is still rather sharp with her sometimes) or in this story, Rei, should see how she acts towards one particular classmate in the fanfic Evangelion Genocide. Said classmate has the 'audacity' to playfully tease Asuka about having a thing for Shinji. Asuka beats up the poor girl, and even AFTER she and Shinji actually get together, still hates and belittles her for that one incident. This continues almost to the end of the story (she does make amends eventually though). Granted, this is 'canon' Asuka, post episode 24, so, it's not exactly surprising.
But, that's not really relevant to the point. The point is, A&T Asuka is still Asuka. She's not perfect and can be quite petty and bratty still. But given that most of her interactions in the story are with people she likes and cares about, it becomes easy to forget how venomous she can be when faced with people she doesn't like. It may not be a likeable quality, but it's all part of who Asuka is (or at least, part of her public persona).
Sounds like I finished binging this just in time, then.
Always Late
Lacking in coffee, sleep, and brains
- Location
- Ohio
How fortuitous. By declaring this, you just activated Strypgia's special ability: Friday update. Anytime a new reader announces they've caught up on the story posts or like-bombed them, Strypgia pulls out all the stops to post the next segment by the upcoming Friday.
How's that for a Yugi impression?
Seriously man, great to have you. Hope you've been enjoying this crazy train of feelings and intellectual analysis.
Whiskey Golf
Being of Editing & Technical Assistance
- Location
- Chained to my desk
I'm not sure where I count though, in that I've been aware of this fic since conception but I'm ridiculously behind in reading it. ^_^;;
Always Late
Lacking in coffee, sleep, and brains
- Location
- Ohio
Just whenever you find some time to catch up , like/hug bomb the posts, then report completion when you're done. That will trigger the special ability.
- Location
- National Capital Region, USA
Better read faster, dude. The Word doc version I write from says A&T is currently 127, 965 words.
*looks over some of the stuff he's beta'd*Better read faster, dude. The Word doc version I write from says A&T is currently 127, 965 words.
Eh, that's not too bad.
Edit: On a side note, why do so few people use Scrivener?
That thing is amazing.
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- Location
- The Midlands.
I tried, but between how complicated the thing is to use and the monumental task of porting over my existing works I never got anywhere with it.
its only complicated if you try to get fancy with it (with a substantial payoff)
just stick to a basic short story format when opening up a new project and you can treat the side bar as a magnificently convenient document organization chart. Which is especially helpful because the program itself also saves backups of the documents as .doc files in wordpad.
cant tell you how many times thats saved some of my larger sets of notes when ive had unfortunate incidents corrupting the original files in a document. I just copy/pasted the backups over to the new one and nearly everything was saved.
Ranma-sensei
Sorcerer
- Location
- Citrix Receiver
- Pronouns
- Weatherdependent
Mixture of laziness and no time to really RTFM; I don't feel comfortable with learning by doing.