Advice and Trust [NGE]
- Location
- National Capital Region, USA
According to the FAR stuff in the Eva reference materials, there were seven Seeds. No explanation why that number, or how the frak Sol ended up with two of them on the same planet. But that leaves five more just... out there some place.
We see the city underneath the fleet in the Gaghiel fight under at least 200m of water, which means Berlin should be a seaport, so who knows. Mesopotamia could be so flooded the Kurds need a Navy now. It's never covered, so you can write fics any way you like.
Yes, it mentions the axis shifted so much, that's why Tokyo is in permanent summer. But a little basic physics says the amount of energy that would have to have been involved at Second Impact to shift the Earth's axis that much would have sterilized the entire planet. So that's either 'AT-Field Haxx' or 'the writers have no sense of scale'.
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Always Late
Lacking in coffee, sleep, and brains
- Location
- Ohio
I did not know that. It's very interesting...
Or Yes.
I realized while plotting a Thing last night that it's almost certainly AT Magic.
After all, Second Impact was Adam - a terraforming engine - doing its job and trying to terraform the planet to its target specifications. Presumably those specifications also included orbital characteristics and it was starting to move the planet as well as dissolve the souls of all mankind before the Katsuragi Expedition managed to shut it down.
Ranma-sensei
Sorcerer
- Location
- Citrix Receiver
- Pronouns
- Weatherdependent
Since the Japanese are culturally more prone to ignoring everything outside their country, they likely didn't think much about it.
Personally, my headcanon is that the countries that were far enough away for the levels to rise more slowly hacked together makeshift embankments while they were frantically building permanent dykes to keep the water out (the western European countries would probably greatly profit from dyke engineers from Holland and Belgium).
Yes, but wouldn't that mean that sterilizing the planet was always its target outcome? Why not simply blast the Earth into the correct axial inclination, then?
On second thought, though, with a Super Solenoid organ, energy expended is not really an issue, so I can sort of see your point. Though, that just throws up the question about how much energy an S² can output at once.
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Whiskey Golf
Being of Editing & Technical Assistance
- Location
- Chained to my desk
*shrug* Quickest explanation, to me, is that they were ripping off the Bible again. The number 7 is considered to hold a certain significance, being a complete number. Or something. It's got associations with god and creation - seven seeds for seven days, or seven seals, etc etc. I'm not really fully caught up with this sort of stuff. I kinda cleared my mind of esotheric bible details in order to become a collector of waffy forms of Gentlemen's Entertainment.
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- Location
- Seattle, Washington
- Pronouns
- He/Him
ADAM was also using his AT Field to terraform Earth into. . . something. So the increased water levels, the axial tilt, and such are not necessarily a result of the giant explosion. ADAM just used AT Hax to add all that water and tilt the earth a bit. Or at least that's me, I mean altering the earths tilt with a explosion would result in things being far far worse than what we see. As such I chalk it up to AT Field shenanigans.
Edit: And I missed Pale Wolf's post saying much the same as I did.
Honestly, it's probably as much as the plot demands. While there is certainly some cap to it (Which is why we don't see the angels utterly nuking Tokyo-3 from afar) I chalk that up to the Angels being more limited than Lilith or Adam are. For those two, well probably enough to do just about whatever they want.
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MarqFJA87
Proud member of Ala Iridia
- Location
- Saudi Arabia
Indeed it did, but notice that it only shifted Japan's climate to what is effectively permanent summer (i.e. summer by pre-2I standards), and thus the changes aren't exactly that drastic (unlike if, say, Japan's climate became a full-blown tropical one).
That of course raises the question of why there is an uneven distrubtion of the Fruits of Life and the Fruits of Knowledge... unless the other five possess different "Fruits" from Adam and Lilith.
... The fleet was somewhere near Japan at the time of the battle (it had recently left Sasebo). And far from the coastline, IIRC. I'd say that the animators dun goofed when the erred on the side of Rule of Cool in drawing the scenery for that episode (because underwater fights in the middle of submerged buildings is cooler, I suppose).
- Location
- National Capital Region, USA
They're actually right over over Yokohama. The street map you see matches the real one:
MarqFJA87
Proud member of Ala Iridia
- Location
- Saudi Arabia
Which is flat out impossible, as Episode 6 clearly shows that the Izu Peninsula (Yokohama is north of it) is still above water. So either Episode 6 used the wrong map, or Episode 8 inserted the city ruins purely for the coolness factor (which is likely, as it did not play any role in the battle at all, and was never even mentioned by anyone).They're actually right over over Yokohama. The street map you see matches the real one:
Besides, if Yokohama is submerged, then by all rights both Hakone (where Tokyo-3 was built upon) and Sasebo (the port that the UN fleet left in Episode 8) should be as submerged as Old Tokyo, yet neither of them are.
Ranma-sensei
Sorcerer
- Location
- Citrix Receiver
- Pronouns
- Weatherdependent
If I remember correctly, the FAR possessed both the Fruits of Life and Knowledge, but decided to send out the Seeds with one Fruit each - why, I can't fathom, because I thought I remembered something about the souls aboard the Seeds being the souls of the FAR as they stood before some kind of cataclysm event.
- Location
- Really? This field is required?
Actually it is that drastic. Climatologicaly, a shift of 2-3 degrees of average yearly temperature is the sort of shift that causes mass migration of species. Japan would need to shift closer to 10-20 degrees in order to get a climate you could really call "permanent summer".
Terrafororming Soul Magic is an answer that makes most sense.
MarqFJA87
Proud member of Ala Iridia
- Location
- Saudi Arabia
It's still not as drastic as turning Japan into a tropical area. Or a tundra one, for that matter. I was speaking in relative terms.
No, that's too much of a stretch to assume it's the case in canon without any evidence (and no, I dispute the earlier-proposed idea about Adam succeeding in xenoforming* the planet beyond shifting the axis of rotation and disturbing the global meteorological patterns)... though probably a valid approach to take for a fanfic, of course.
That's the proper term here; "terraforming" is when you're changing a planet and/or its global environment to resemble Earth.
Clearly it was seven pairs of seeds, and someone screwed up and seeded the pRNG the seeds of life and the seeds of knowledge used to select planets with the same number.
One possible explanation is that it's not just a rise in water levels (not sure there's enough water around in the first place to make up for a >200m rise even if every single glacier melted) but also considerable tectonic disturbance; with some landmasses moving up or sinking dozens to low hundreds of meters.
Ranma-sensei
Sorcerer
- Location
- Citrix Receiver
- Pronouns
- Weatherdependent
Eh, close enough; tectonic shift is still rising sea levels from a certain point of view.
MarqFJA87
Proud member of Ala Iridia
- Location
- Saudi Arabia
Still doesn't solve the paradox between the Operation Yashima view of Japan and the pretty-much-purely-cosmetic insertion of submerged urban ruins copied from the city of Yokohama into the underwater phase of the Gaghiel battle (which, and I cannot stress this enough, happened in an area of the Pacific Ocean that is devoid of any trace of the Japanese coastline, not even on the horizon).
It is now my headcanon that it was indeed seven pairs of Seeds of Life that were sent, and either Seele fudged up the translation or we can invoke Fanon Discontinuity and retcon that part to make it "seven pairs" instead of just "seven".Clearly it was seven pairs of seeds, and someone screwed up and seeded the pRNG the seeds of life and the seeds of knowledge used to select planets with the same number.
Look, Adam start changing Earth and is shut down in middle of the process so only relatively small changes happened.
BadRoad
a thousand miles
Does it help that Japan is basically a volcanic archipelago straddling a fault line?
MarqFJA87
Proud member of Ala Iridia
- Location
- Saudi Arabia
No, because you are basically saying that the entire peninsula was sunk within the few days/weeks between Ramiel and Gaghiel's appearances due to a natural earthquake, and nobody saw fit to talk about it all on-screen, let alone the expected massive refugee crisis and other fan-hitting shit that should result from such a disaster. That's not straining my willing suspension of disbelief, that breaks it outright beyond repair.
Itsune
Eldritch horror, Ship's Cat, Emergency Gunner.
- Location
- Somewhere in King County Washington
Yep, that's exactly what they were.
This is the same race, that, during the prohibition era, printed instructions of 'what not to do,' to keep your brick of dehydrated grape concentrate from turning into wine.
Alien invaders, take note:
The easiest way to get the human race to do something is to forbid them to do something.
If you want them to really move on something Post a Guard.
tl;dr Schmuck Bait
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I don't know, I'd say a giant rock is rather impressive. After all, it's a rock and it's giant.
- Location
- National Capital Region, USA
Yeah, the total lack of any coastline visible during the battle makes the whole thing crazy. Even if Yokohama proper subsided that far (which would cause a ludicrously huge tsunami), you should still see the rest of the new coastline somewhere in the background of at least one shot.
As it is, I think you're right that the writers just used Yokohama for the pure cool of it, like an American writer would put in some recognizable landmarks like the Hollywood Sign or something in a disaster movie, never mind if it's location or depth would make sense.
1000 words of update done so far. On track to post by Friday.