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Advice and Trust [NGE]

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Man, Misato already was on a guilt trip because he ran away. Because how she had yelled at him after the Shamshel battle. And yeah, she had in fact fucked up her. That was fuck up from her. And what's more, he runs away because he thinks he has no alternative to EVA. No choice but to pilot. Which is a terrible prospect after Shamshel. So, basically, he considers suicide because he is desperate about his situation. And who, most directly, made him pilot? So Misato might get quite the guilt trip. And it would't even be unjustified. But that will probably majorly affect her.

Not that it matters much. Without two EVAs and two pilots, the Ramiel battle is lost. Game over.
 
Strypgia said:
One of my own peeves with Genocide is that it felt like it pretty much threw away all the character development of the late series in order to... do it all again?
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It threw away the character development made in its own story, for the development of two OC characters, one of whom was Hikari lit and whose sole purpose was to get mutilated by Asuka, so she could dragged down and built up again. Its not Ariel didn't happen already...

I like Evangelion: Genocide, but it could have done with some pruning of some of its more superfluous stuff.
 
Susano said:
Not that it matters much. Without two EVAs and two pilots, the Ramiel battle is lost. Game over.
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Emergency transport of Unit-02 to Japan? A week or two passed between Shamshel and Ramiel, right? So maybe they could use those fancy transport planes that the Americans used for 03?

Not that it really matters in the long run either since 01 is so central to the plot, but maybe Ramiel wouldn't be the end of it.
 
Susano said:
Man, Misato already was on a guilt trip because he ran away. Because how she had yelled at him after the Shamshel battle. And yeah, she had in fact fucked up her. That was fuck up from her. And what's more, he runs away because he thinks he has no alternative to EVA. No choice but to pilot. Which is a terrible prospect after Shamshel. So, basically, he considers suicide because he is desperate about his situation. And who, most directly, made him pilot? So Misato might get quite the guilt trip. And it would't even be unjustified. But that will probably majorly affect her.

Not that it matters much. Without two EVAs and two pilots, the Ramiel battle is lost. Game over.
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How much time passes between the cliff and Ramiel? I suppose Gendo could rush Asuka and 02 in somehow. I recall something about sub-orbital flight being a thing in the EVA-verse?

Haha, ninja'd.
Anyway, how to get the song out of my head? I try, but I just keep letting me down letting me down letting me down
 
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greensun said:
It threw away the character development made in its own story, for the development of two OC characters, one of whom was Hikari lit and whose sole purpose was to get mutilated by Asuka, so she could dragged down and built up again. Its not Ariel didn't happen already...
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Well, that character was also important for the Rei story arc, but here's the thing: That story arc was LITERALLY a complete repeat of her story arc from the show. Rei learns she is not a tool but a human being and hence develops free will. Which, uh, is what is supposed to have already happened!

Gryphon said:
Emergency transport of Unit-02 to Japan? A week or two passed between Shamshel and Ramiel, right? So maybe they could use those fancy transport planes that the Americans used for 03?

Not that it really matters in the long run either since 01 is so central to the plot, but maybe Ramiel wouldn't be the end of it.
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Naughtilus said:
How much time passes between the cliff and Ramiel? I suppose Gendo could rush Asuka and 02 in somehow. I recall something about sub-orbital flight being a thing in the EVA-verse?
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Not sure if EVA-scale suborbital flight is a thing, but EVA-03 was transported across the Pacific by air at least, so that should be possible at least. Of course, that raises the question why it hasn't been brought in earlier. I mean, the second longest time between two angels (the longest time is between Zeruel and Arael, because LCLified Shinj) is between Sachiel and Shamshel, and is used to train Shinji. Three weeks. That would also have been enough already to bring EVA-02 in. Really, Shinji was kept with the lie that nobody else can do the job when there is a perfectly servicable Unit with pilot just idling in Germany... that really is something that should be called out. In fact, that might make Misato guilt trip even worse... they could have brought in EVA-02, but no, they burdened all on Shinji and so he killed himself...

But, okay, assuming EVA-02 can be rushed in... most angels can be "solved" with two EVAs. In canon, there is a good potion of luck involved in many cases, and it is unclear whether Rei (as Shinji's replacement) would do the same situation saving things he did - but then, Shinji had to save the scene for the story to go on, so that same logic can also be applied to Rei ;) The first angel that poses a problem is Sahaquel, because you kinda need three EVAs for it. Leliel could be a problem if Yui doesn't berserk for Rei, but there might also be other ways out. And Zeruel definitely is a problem - Rei wouldn't go berserk like Shinji did, and then Yui most likely won't go berserk for her.
 
Susano said:
That would also have been enough already to bring EVA-02 in. Really, Shinji was kept with the lie that nobody else can do the job when there is a perfectly servicable Unit with pilot just idling in Germany...
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I'm pretty sure that it's never mentioned in-series, but I always assumed that Unit-02 wasn't straight up shipped over to Tokyo-3 because it still wasn't combat worthy. As in the overall mech was complete, but they still had to give it the finishing touches what with it being the original production model, or maybe they decided to make some last-minute alterations after reading through the AARs of the Sachiel battle or some such.

It could just as well have been on its way the moment Sachiel made its entrance, though. Considering that it made the trip by ship (and crossed the Pacific?), it would take quite a while for 02 to get to Japan.
 
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Gryphon said:
It could just as well have been on its way the moment Sachiel made its entrance, though. Considering that it made the trip by ship (and crossed the Pacific?), it would take quite a while for 02 to get to Japan.
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A trip from Wilhelmshaven to Yokohama should only take about three weeks, though. Sachiel to Gaghiel is more like two months.

And yes, it is an issue never really called out in the series...
 
Susano said:
But, okay, assuming EVA-02 can be rushed in... most angels can be "solved" with two EVAs. In canon, there is a good potion of luck involved in many cases, and it is unclear whether Rei (as Shinji's replacement) would do the same situation saving things he did - but then, Shinji had to save the scene for the story to go on, so that same logic can also be applied to Rei ;) The first angel that poses a problem is Sahaquel, because you kinda need three EVAs for it. Leliel could be a problem if Yui doesn't berserk for Rei, but there might also be other ways out. And Zeruel definitely is a problem - Rei wouldn't go berserk like Shinji did, and then Yui most likely won't go berserk for her.
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Sandalphon, though. Would Rei save Asuka without orders?
 
curiosity said:
Sandalphon, though. Would Rei save Asuka without orders?
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That is one of those things which I meant about Shinji being a situation saver, and Rei not necessarily doing the same. Still, as the series shows, two units are enough to handle it. And Rei may decide that, hey, she is replaceable, Pilot Soryu and EVA-02 are not, so into the lava it goes. Especially as she has a death wish anyway. It was speculated in episode 14 that this is the real reason she jumped into Ramiel's beam, and in her pre-instrumentality scene in episode 25 she confirms that she is longing for oblivion. So doing something as suicidally dangerous as jumping into Ramiel's beam, like jumping into lava, might still fit to her.
 
curiosity said:
Sandalphon, though. Would Rei save Asuka without orders?
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Probably, Rei doesn't get along with Asuka in canon, but she's an empathetic person who values human life, and she doesn't care about her own life. She'd go out of her way to save her.

Of course, if Shinji runs off or whatever, Misato might be more cautious with her Pilots and she might call off the operation or not even engage it in the first place and just drop an N2 mine on its ass.
 
Diary Of A Madman: A Little Interlude

Reading the discussion after post-Arael update, I have this urge to write an omake of Shinji finally having enough and confronting Gendo verbally and physically.
Cue Gendo tapping into his brawler past, only to find himself fighting Shinji and Asuka in perfect sync.

Shinji, standing over Gendo's unconscious body: "We-ell, that's not how I imagined an Israfel Special..."
Asuka, leaning into his shoulder "...but I still feel like I need a cigarette. Yeah."
Rei, having taken a wrong turn in the air vents, and arriving just now: o_O?
 
Naughtilus said:
Diary Of A Madman: A Little Interlude

Reading the discussion after post-Arael update, I have this urge to write an omake of Shinji finally having enough and confronting Gendo verbally and physically.
Cue Gendo tapping into his brawler past, only to find himself fighting Shinji and Asuka in perfect sync.

Shinji, standing over Gendo's unconscious body: "We-ell, that's not how I imagined an Israfel Special..."
Asuka, leaning into his shoulder "...but I still feel like I need a cigarette. Yeah."
Rei, having taken a wrong turn in the air vents, and arriving just now: o_O?
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You have defeated the Final Boss! Now go talk to an NPC to get the location of the True Final Boss. It's just some old men, you shouldn't have any trouble.
 
MoroseMobius said:
Given how badly England would be boned in a combined timeline (MIllenium in Spring 2000, 2I in the Fall), the Monarchy would move off the Islands, most likely to Canada, which opens up the trans-pacific connection.
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Leave? Leave England? As her own mother said in 1940: "The children will not leave unless I do. I shall not leave unless their father does, and the King will not leave the country in any circumstances whatever." ―Elizabeth the Queen Mother

Unless... no, even if the UK was on fire and underwater, Queen Elizabeth would stay. As long as there was a single British Subject still there, she would stay to lead them. That woman takes her job seriously. For the honor of her House, she can do no less.

In any case, I sat down to write last night, and discovered two things: #1) I was far more tired than I thought, and #2) I needed to step back and rethink a scene, and needed to insert at least one ahead of what I was going to do. Progress goes on.
 
Strypgia said:
Leave? Leave England? As her own mother said in 1940: "The children will not leave unless I do. I shall not leave unless their father does, and the King will not leave the country in any circumstances whatever." ―Elizabeth the Queen Mother

Unless... no, even if the UK was on fire and underwater, Queen Elizabeth would stay. As long as there was a single British Subject still there, she would stay to lead them. That woman takes her job seriously. For the honor of her House, she can do no less.
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Clearly she would move to the now-tropical Scottish highlands and take up residence in Balmoral.
 
Strypgia said:
Leave? Leave England? As her own mother said in 1940: "The children will not leave unless I do. I shall not leave unless their father does, and the King will not leave the country in any circumstances whatever." ―Elizabeth the Queen Mother

Unless... no, even if the UK was on fire and underwater, Queen Elizabeth would stay. As long as there was a single British Subject still there, she would stay to lead them. That woman takes her job seriously. For the honor of her House, she can do no less.
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As we've already established, what more can you expect from the woman who could most likely fend off GNR single handedly, with nothing more than a handbag?

A conversation with Her Majesty would probably do any character from NGE a world of good.
 
Since we're heading for a derail and I'm an emotionally machosistic sucker for a thread ban, A.) let's just make the above idea it's own fanfic and B.) wonder what would happen if A&T! Shinji and Asuka got working Stand arrows from JJBA.

Seriously, what would happen?
 
Nilay said:
Since we're heading for a derail and I'm an emotionally machosistic sucker for a thread ban, A.) let's just make the above idea it's own fanfic and B.) wonder what would happen if A&T! Shinji and Asuka got working Stand arrows from JJBA.

Seriously, what would happen?
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The correct solution to "we are derailing" is not "let's derail another direction".

Especially not when the thread banner is to explicitly not do this.
 
Well, we don't have much to discuss until the next update. Derailing is just natural by now.

To make a confrontation between The Queen and Gendo possible, the Geofront would need to be in England OR she would personally accompany a english pilot-Unit to Japan. Isn't Mari supposed to be half-english?
 
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