Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
- Start date
-
- Tags
- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
[X] Donkey
The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
The ribbon grid is made of magic. I doubt we Mami could suppress that feeling any more than we can suppress the witchiness of active grief. Plus I'm pretty sure Anri felt the connection that was formed when we found her. The fact that it's mentioned as being a connection, followed by her immediately shouting at Hijiri that she'd been found, is a simple explanation for why Hijiri knew we found her as soon as she did.
I must reiterate my position that putting the ribbon grid as our first choice, rather than a contingency plan with noteworthy flaws, is a mistake.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
[X] Hijiri:
-[X] Advice: Telepathy Hijiri once she calms down? It's what we intended to do.
-[X] Offer Ribbon Grid search.
[X] Sayaka:
-[X] Yes, eventually.
--[X] Share general plans, emphasizing that we'll certainly deal with those groups.
--[X] Mention current and future problems (Walpurgisnacht, information gathering, refugees, etc.), focusing on them not as obstacles, but as a natural progression of steps between 'now' and 'then'.
--[X] Note that problems will arise from our actions, too. (Reduced Witch Hunting, power abuse.)
--[X] Mention ways Sayaka can help. (I.e. with Hunting and stopping said abuse.)
-[X] Brainstorm about those groups:
--[X] Ideals, characteristics, motivations. Whether they are redeemable, the risks it'd take to find out.
--[X] Powers, strength, "trump cards". Don't overstimate ourselves; these groups are well established for a reason.
-[X] Advice: Telepathy Hijiri once she calms down? It's what we intended to do.
-[X] Offer Ribbon Grid search.
[X] Sayaka:
-[X] Yes, eventually.
--[X] Share general plans, emphasizing that we'll certainly deal with those groups.
--[X] Mention current and future problems (Walpurgisnacht, information gathering, refugees, etc.), focusing on them not as obstacles, but as a natural progression of steps between 'now' and 'then'.
--[X] Note that problems will arise from our actions, too. (Reduced Witch Hunting, power abuse.)
--[X] Mention ways Sayaka can help. (I.e. with Hunting and stopping said abuse.)
-[X] Brainstorm about those groups:
--[X] Ideals, characteristics, motivations. Whether they are redeemable, the risks it'd take to find out.
--[X] Powers, strength, "trump cards". Don't overstimate ourselves; these groups are well established for a reason.
Atosen
A chimney
- Location
- on a roof in New Zealand
I don't think most meguca can inherently sense magic like we can. (If they could, they'd never get the drop on each other like they sometimes do in canon.) We can only sense it as some sort of... foreign non-Grief 'other' picked up by our Grief sense.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
So Hijiri totally feels that thing teenagers feel about feeling as if they were fading, not real, which relates to the need to be part of a group. Any group, in the end, even if they know it's a 'bad' group.
In the manga,
She literally states she wants to 'be real'. Her plan is to kill all the humans, push her feelings of being 'fake' onto them (literally make them fake
). She seems to think this would make her feel 'real'.
After doing so, she and Kazumi and the 'artificial humans' she would create would be the 'real' humans, and they would all have the world for themselves and Hijiri would hold all power.
This is really just a teenager phase.
When Hijiri sees the Pleiades (specially Niko) being all huggy, I don't think she's jealous as if she wanted to be part of them specifically, but that she just wants to belong to something, herself.
... Anyway, I think my point is that Hijiri likely needs to be part of a group and her wish to destroy things/take things by force/etc. may be pretty much like Naruto's Gaara killing things to feel alive. A way to try and take control of herself when she feels completely out of control.
My actual point is that this is part of what will make talking with Hijiri very difficult. Specially talking while she's off on her own, while she believes she can have her way through force, deceit, etc., without needing to compromise.
In the manga,
She literally states she wants to 'be real'. Her plan is to kill all the humans, push her feelings of being 'fake' onto them (literally make them fake
). She seems to think this would make her feel 'real'.After doing so, she and Kazumi and the 'artificial humans' she would create would be the 'real' humans, and they would all have the world for themselves and Hijiri would hold all power.
This is really just a teenager phase.
When Hijiri sees the Pleiades (specially Niko) being all huggy, I don't think she's jealous as if she wanted to be part of them specifically, but that she just wants to belong to something, herself.
... Anyway, I think my point is that Hijiri likely needs to be part of a group and her wish to destroy things/take things by force/etc. may be pretty much like Naruto's Gaara killing things to feel alive. A way to try and take control of herself when she feels completely out of control.
My actual point is that this is part of what will make talking with Hijiri very difficult. Specially talking while she's off on her own, while she believes she can have her way through force, deceit, etc., without needing to compromise.
Are you saying everything could have been fixed if the first words out of our mouth were "want to join my team"?
pantherasapiens
you were always my best friend
- Location
- somewhere over your shoulder
"Hi I'm Sabrina and I'm here to befriend you"
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
Well, if we had tracked down Hijiri before everything exploded, dealing with her would likely have been easier.Are you saying everything could have been fixed if the first words out of our mouth were "want to join my team"?
I doubt she would have just joined the team since she wouldn't have a reason to feel a connection to us and our friends... well, maybe Sabrina sharing being an artificial human could've helped sway Hijiri's actions to an extent. Let's say it was a crapshoot and everything would have still exploded in some fashion.
(But maybe it would have exploded with less intensity!)
The problem with being a magical girl is that it means you're a teenager forever.
Jonen C
F.M.D.G.
- Location
- Lincopense, Ostrogothia, Suecia
"Hello, my name is Sabrina. My sole purpose to being here right now is to make friends. Now, we can do this the easy way, or the hard way. Please do not choose the hard way."
AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
That's not true; several Magical Girls are seen to noticeably age; Suzune had to specifically, consciously turn off her aging.
Battleship_Fusou
(The Itty-Bitty Pretty Battleship Kitty)
- Location
- Surigao Strait
Well... three days of binge reading and I've finally read this entire quest up to this point. I'm going to stay quiet for the current voting but I think I'll participate in future ones now that I'm current.
Atosen
A chimney
- Location
- on a roof in New Zealand
No, no, no. Too much risk of personality conflicts with Hijiri. You know how we run roughshod over people, and the last thing she needs is another person controlling her life.Are you saying everything could have been fixed if the first words out of our mouth were "want to join my team"?
We pawn her off on Masami and Hiroko instead.
Last edited:
UbeOne
Daydreaming CPU
- Location
- Philippines
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Did you use reader mode/threadmarks or did you read all the posts?
Battleship_Fusou
(The Itty-Bitty Pretty Battleship Kitty)
- Location
- Surigao Strait
A bit of both really? There were points where I just got, well, enraptured, by some of the discussions and ideas being posted so... probably the better part of two, maybe three hundred pages besides the pages with thread marks on them?
Who knew being sick was so good for having time to read?
Battleship_Fusou
(The Itty-Bitty Pretty Battleship Kitty)
- Location
- Surigao Strait
Oh I've already enjoyed it, I simply plan to continue doing so.
TJSomething
That's... that's impossible!
[X] Onmur
I mostly like this over Phoenixian because I like the approach to Sayaka more. I'm kind of iffy on the grid search thing, but I'm okay making it a group decision as plan B. I think that HIjiri, Mami, and Kazumi would be better equipped to assess the social risks. That said, we may want to put forward the magic risks.
I mostly like this over Phoenixian because I like the approach to Sayaka more. I'm kind of iffy on the grid search thing, but I'm okay making it a group decision as plan B. I think that HIjiri, Mami, and Kazumi would be better equipped to assess the social risks. That said, we may want to put forward the magic risks.
Last edited:
- Location
- USA, Midworld world line
Hello, @Battleship_Fusou . I'm also new. Feel free let us hear your ideas regarding the Quest, even if you aren't voting ATM?
@The Narrator Some responses to your prior post...
My theory says that, as long as Walpurgisnacht is actually making any decisions, we CAN kite it. In general terms, all we need to do is insure the correct threat level or actual damage is felt by it. It came to destroy the city for some reason. It will engage a single target of opportunity, just ask Homura. If we also want it to chase us, presenting a threat of harm just high enough to prevent it from freely doing both city invasion and smashing Sabrina will force a choice. If there were some freak logic that it would remain at gun range slowly moving only at the city, and let us cripple it without risk, that sounds like a boon. But that isn't going to happen.
Thus, I envision the opening artillery shots to be full power, low sophistication actions. Having Sabrina heft the MOF and fly and defend will take something away from her total _-BOOM-_ capacity. Further, it would be best for kiting if we did not display all of our positions and allies at the start. So I want to have Sabrina shoot from different locations over large baselines. Barges or ships stationed miles apart. A teleporter that would do that for us can make Sabrina a better bait. When I say "shoot," let's think of the upper bounds? Sabrina will need ammunition, stuff with inherent strength to undergo her acceleration cycle and not disperse in flight. It must get positioned on the battleground beforehand. Large steel components, billets, etc. are the most mundane choice. She cannot reinforce rounds all the way to the target, and we also don't want to tell WN that we have a magic range limit. Physical assault is ambiguous as to our exact magic status. We don't know Sabrina's safe power curve for this action, but if her best acceleration can be applied to several hundred kilos, that would be how we start. After warming up with these, we might have a few charms of anti-magic to bolt on front of the decisive rounds, as the notion of WN having passive magic shielding is worth considering. And if there is not a shield, anti-magic boosted artillery impacts might just end the fight. If the fight drags on, using all the other power available to us to stretch our mana budget is how we were taught to do this. Such as enchanting penetrators for the mundane rounds Homura can provision. And getting our support land skirmishers ready to use heavy machine guns on the inbound familiars. Remember, no barrier terrain in the Walpurgisnacht Stage area, however large that is. Therefore, magic is not our first and only choice of weapons. If Homura can shoot them, they can be shot under other conditions too.
Given the possible location, we have lots to choose from, too. Isn't the Yokohama port supposed to be the template for our geography? And the Naval base is.....
MarineTraffic: Global Ship Tracking Intelligence | AIS Marine Traffic
If Mitakihara and Kasamino are on this map, we will need to be able to go 2-4km out into the bay to intercept, and we have to keep our stray shots in mind - they could reach the other side if we get into the energy range we'd like to think about. Our SCIENCE session will need to be on honest sea coast, if we need this much space for backstop. Fortunately, travel is no longer a problem.
This is why I don't think a repeat of our formation from the prior battles is the only formula. To re-cap, I see it as "kite the carrier solo, then small group. Pull off the fighters, best aerial girls. Big, nasty AoE and artillery, everybody. Way too much artillery. Dogfight the carrier, immobilize using our best fighters. Tear down defenses by boarding. Large scale rescue of allies."
We need more flying assets. Other girls can do that. But I think Sabrina is our heaviest conventional artillery, unless we find someone else who would volunteer to do better. Mami, "Ramiel-chan", etc. need to be spread apart from Sabrina, to complicate enemy counterattack. They need to start at great heights above, and change altitude to suit conditions. We don't want to keep WN high over the sea, because it uses flames. For girls who can be on the front line, we need mundane platforms to hold weapons and let us hopscotch at ground level, water is a resource we need to use. Flying low is nice, too. The emphasis is to get it lower, and lower, to reduce field of fire. True aerial assault is to prevent it from leaving our area, not kite it up into the air. Gravity powers to the rescue?
All of this relies upon multiple girls engaging, trading out, cleansing with a runner, and then relieving the others again. We need fast tempo to win, as WN brings a heaping serving of weather control along with killer PK. Weather is not a fast aiming attack, but it is a telling part of the advantage the witch has established. By applying damage faster, it will simply not have time to further change the air in ways that undermine our plan. And part of the plan is to get far more long range DPS on it, such as enchanted real artillery / railguns. Or maybe "Grand Theft: Airbase." Homura never stole All the missiles, but then again, she never had help like Sabrina before? Nor did she have friends to enchant the nosecones with reality bending powers? And if we need more, the Kim regime really must donate some material to the global effort, with our help?
What did they say in that Doujin? "The tyrrany of numbers" IIRC.
Your have other plans? Please continue!
@The Narrator Some responses to your prior post...
My theory says that, as long as Walpurgisnacht is actually making any decisions, we CAN kite it. In general terms, all we need to do is insure the correct threat level or actual damage is felt by it. It came to destroy the city for some reason. It will engage a single target of opportunity, just ask Homura. If we also want it to chase us, presenting a threat of harm just high enough to prevent it from freely doing both city invasion and smashing Sabrina will force a choice. If there were some freak logic that it would remain at gun range slowly moving only at the city, and let us cripple it without risk, that sounds like a boon. But that isn't going to happen.
Thus, I envision the opening artillery shots to be full power, low sophistication actions. Having Sabrina heft the MOF and fly and defend will take something away from her total _-BOOM-_ capacity. Further, it would be best for kiting if we did not display all of our positions and allies at the start. So I want to have Sabrina shoot from different locations over large baselines. Barges or ships stationed miles apart. A teleporter that would do that for us can make Sabrina a better bait. When I say "shoot," let's think of the upper bounds? Sabrina will need ammunition, stuff with inherent strength to undergo her acceleration cycle and not disperse in flight. It must get positioned on the battleground beforehand. Large steel components, billets, etc. are the most mundane choice. She cannot reinforce rounds all the way to the target, and we also don't want to tell WN that we have a magic range limit. Physical assault is ambiguous as to our exact magic status. We don't know Sabrina's safe power curve for this action, but if her best acceleration can be applied to several hundred kilos, that would be how we start. After warming up with these, we might have a few charms of anti-magic to bolt on front of the decisive rounds, as the notion of WN having passive magic shielding is worth considering. And if there is not a shield, anti-magic boosted artillery impacts might just end the fight. If the fight drags on, using all the other power available to us to stretch our mana budget is how we were taught to do this. Such as enchanting penetrators for the mundane rounds Homura can provision. And getting our support land skirmishers ready to use heavy machine guns on the inbound familiars. Remember, no barrier terrain in the Walpurgisnacht Stage area, however large that is. Therefore, magic is not our first and only choice of weapons. If Homura can shoot them, they can be shot under other conditions too.
Given the possible location, we have lots to choose from, too. Isn't the Yokohama port supposed to be the template for our geography? And the Naval base is.....
MarineTraffic: Global Ship Tracking Intelligence | AIS Marine Traffic
If Mitakihara and Kasamino are on this map, we will need to be able to go 2-4km out into the bay to intercept, and we have to keep our stray shots in mind - they could reach the other side if we get into the energy range we'd like to think about. Our SCIENCE session will need to be on honest sea coast, if we need this much space for backstop. Fortunately, travel is no longer a problem.
This is why I don't think a repeat of our formation from the prior battles is the only formula. To re-cap, I see it as "kite the carrier solo, then small group. Pull off the fighters, best aerial girls. Big, nasty AoE and artillery, everybody. Way too much artillery. Dogfight the carrier, immobilize using our best fighters. Tear down defenses by boarding. Large scale rescue of allies."
We need more flying assets. Other girls can do that. But I think Sabrina is our heaviest conventional artillery, unless we find someone else who would volunteer to do better. Mami, "Ramiel-chan", etc. need to be spread apart from Sabrina, to complicate enemy counterattack. They need to start at great heights above, and change altitude to suit conditions. We don't want to keep WN high over the sea, because it uses flames. For girls who can be on the front line, we need mundane platforms to hold weapons and let us hopscotch at ground level, water is a resource we need to use. Flying low is nice, too. The emphasis is to get it lower, and lower, to reduce field of fire. True aerial assault is to prevent it from leaving our area, not kite it up into the air. Gravity powers to the rescue?
All of this relies upon multiple girls engaging, trading out, cleansing with a runner, and then relieving the others again. We need fast tempo to win, as WN brings a heaping serving of weather control along with killer PK. Weather is not a fast aiming attack, but it is a telling part of the advantage the witch has established. By applying damage faster, it will simply not have time to further change the air in ways that undermine our plan. And part of the plan is to get far more long range DPS on it, such as enchanted real artillery / railguns. Or maybe "Grand Theft: Airbase." Homura never stole All the missiles, but then again, she never had help like Sabrina before? Nor did she have friends to enchant the nosecones with reality bending powers? And if we need more, the Kim regime really must donate some material to the global effort, with our help?
What did they say in that Doujin? "The tyrrany of numbers" IIRC.
Your have other plans? Please continue!
The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
Some idle brute-force theory crafting:
Given Sayaka's power gems are literally half-complete souls, it occurs to me that there's four places we see similar things in canon.
The first, and the original reason for checking, is familiars. It's simple enough to fit a hypothesis here; Somehow, Sayaka got a version of her Rebellion powerset. The biggest problems with this one are that Sayaka's power gems are simply too complete. Something would have to happen to grow them from their incomplete state, be it during formation, or afterwards.
One possibility that comes to mind to me here is that Sayaka is taking a familiar, but rather than the whole thing being the gem the familiar itself is actually that bare hint of Suzuki Haru's power inside it, and the rest of the gem is containing it. Firn talked about that possibility a bit when asked:
In short: Inconclusive. The feeling of each thing is simply too different to compare them as things stand.
Best I can think is to see whether or not there's any circumstance in which that small hint of the other girl's power can cause it to take up more and more of the Gem. Possibly just by checking whether frequent with use does anything.
That or ask Riona should she end up on good terms with us.
The second possibility, courtesy of Aura Twilight, is an equivalent to the Clara Dolls,
Honestly not sure here. How clara dolls work, structurally, hasn't been specified but it seems to occur people who've had their souls split: Homura in Wraithverse and likely Madoka's "fairies" from the concept movie. Both have themselves split in one way or another before this happens and from how it reads, that's the source of Ai, since it reads like she came into existence as a result of the recombination of Homura with her lost power.
Given the nature of her gems, it could be something to look out for in Sayaka later, but unless Homura sealing Oktavia away from Sayaka did more interesting things than we thought and we're post-Rebellion, it shouldn't be the source of this.
The third kind of partial soul is that of the wraith eaten.
It doesn't even take a glance to see this isn't happening. But it's an interesting point to consider, since Nadia's questions on the matter imply at least some power copiers do reduce the powers they copy. Also, if recombination is a reliable origin for clara dolls, users of that kind of power-copying may provide a source of clara dolls within this universe to look into to for study.
The final category, is the Madokami split. This is not what Sayaka is doing. Despite above conjecture, it's probably also not what Homura did to seal Sayaka in Rebellion.
But...
Should we ever test and confirm we are post-Rebellion, you've got to wonder: Doesn't having a person who creates half-soulgems seem like such a wonderful solution to a problem of someone who's had their soul cut in half, if only we knew how to apply it?
After all, if Madokami is existent and damaged by losing her personal history, than to take a copy of that lost history and stitch it back in might help mitigate that damage.
...Hunh, that reminds me: Kyuubey said way back when that at least part of Sabrina's strangeness was having a great deal of potential without the personal history that should accompany such a thing. I'd previously thought it had been a nothing answer due to how Sabrina had just appeared but with that in consideration...
*Racks it up as a potential point towards UKG!Brina theory.*
On which note I have to wonder if lacking that personal history is also the specific reason why Sayaka couldn't copy our power. Following the update Sayaka tried to copy our powers Firn, and Sayaka, did note that she got what was effectively a "404 not found error" from us to non-meguca Madoka's "501 not implemented."
-----
Late response:
EDIT:
There was some discussion of possible grief experiments in the discord tonight. Most of the resultant theories have been added to the Science! Planner section of the Day Planner, but much the original conversation is available here:
https://vebyast.github.io/pmas-discord-quotes/#/quote_id/403023461137776640
Alas, it ran extremely long and I couldn't fit it all into the quote, but the big takeaway is the possibility of investigating whether grief, and souls for that matter, can or already do exist in higher dimensions.
Among many other possibilities.
(seriously, this is really fertile ground)
Given Sayaka's power gems are literally half-complete souls, it occurs to me that there's four places we see similar things in canon.
The first, and the original reason for checking, is familiars. It's simple enough to fit a hypothesis here; Somehow, Sayaka got a version of her Rebellion powerset. The biggest problems with this one are that Sayaka's power gems are simply too complete. Something would have to happen to grow them from their incomplete state, be it during formation, or afterwards.
One possibility that comes to mind to me here is that Sayaka is taking a familiar, but rather than the whole thing being the gem the familiar itself is actually that bare hint of Suzuki Haru's power inside it, and the rest of the gem is containing it. Firn talked about that possibility a bit when asked:
Yvonne-Today at 5:09 PM
Oh! @Firnagzen While you're here, I've been writing up some brute-force thoughts about last update and I have a relevant question: How does the amount of Suzuki Haru's magic we see in Sayaka's power gem compare to the completeness of a familiar?
If I've written that sensibly.
Firnagzen-Today at 5:13 PM
@Yvonne on what basis? the comparisons aren't really comparable
Sabrina-Today at 5:14 PM
@Yvonne Is this lemon as sour as that honey is sweet?
Yvonne-Today at 5:28 PM
But anyways... @Firnagzen The comparison I'd asked about related to the latest update of Sayaka's power gem being colored by Haru's power
Firnagzen-Today at 5:35 PM
@Yvonne that's not, unfortunately, a quantifiable question
Yvonne-Today at 5:36 PM
Alright.
Firnagzen-Today at 5:36 PM
it's about the same as asking "is this thing as purple as that thing is yellow?"
Yvonne-Today at 5:37 PM
Well, there are certainly other methods to explore that possibility.
Oh! @Firnagzen While you're here, I've been writing up some brute-force thoughts about last update and I have a relevant question: How does the amount of Suzuki Haru's magic we see in Sayaka's power gem compare to the completeness of a familiar?
If I've written that sensibly.
Firnagzen-Today at 5:13 PM
@Yvonne on what basis? the comparisons aren't really comparable
Sabrina-Today at 5:14 PM
@Yvonne Is this lemon as sour as that honey is sweet?
Yvonne-Today at 5:28 PM
But anyways... @Firnagzen The comparison I'd asked about related to the latest update of Sayaka's power gem being colored by Haru's power
and
And I'm wondering whether the mmm.... about of substance to that hint there can be related to the incompleteness of a familiar, if there's roughly the same amount of stuff in each. Basically, whether Sayaka trapped/dissolved a familiar's core as the favor in a much larger structure. (or similar)
Firnagzen-Today at 5:35 PM
@Yvonne that's not, unfortunately, a quantifiable question
Yvonne-Today at 5:36 PM
Alright.
Firnagzen-Today at 5:36 PM
it's about the same as asking "is this thing as purple as that thing is yellow?"
Yvonne-Today at 5:37 PM
Well, there are certainly other methods to explore that possibility.
Best I can think is to see whether or not there's any circumstance in which that small hint of the other girl's power can cause it to take up more and more of the Gem. Possibly just by checking whether frequent with use does anything.
That or ask Riona should she end up on good terms with us.
The second possibility, courtesy of Aura Twilight, is an equivalent to the Clara Dolls,
Honestly not sure here. How clara dolls work, structurally, hasn't been specified but it seems to occur people who've had their souls split: Homura in Wraithverse and likely Madoka's "fairies" from the concept movie. Both have themselves split in one way or another before this happens and from how it reads, that's the source of Ai, since it reads like she came into existence as a result of the recombination of Homura with her lost power.
Given the nature of her gems, it could be something to look out for in Sayaka later, but unless Homura sealing Oktavia away from Sayaka did more interesting things than we thought and we're post-Rebellion, it shouldn't be the source of this.
The third kind of partial soul is that of the wraith eaten.
It doesn't even take a glance to see this isn't happening. But it's an interesting point to consider, since Nadia's questions on the matter imply at least some power copiers do reduce the powers they copy. Also, if recombination is a reliable origin for clara dolls, users of that kind of power-copying may provide a source of clara dolls within this universe to look into to for study.
The final category, is the Madokami split. This is not what Sayaka is doing. Despite above conjecture, it's probably also not what Homura did to seal Sayaka in Rebellion.
But...
Should we ever test and confirm we are post-Rebellion, you've got to wonder: Doesn't having a person who creates half-soulgems seem like such a wonderful solution to a problem of someone who's had their soul cut in half, if only we knew how to apply it?
After all, if Madokami is existent and damaged by losing her personal history, than to take a copy of that lost history and stitch it back in might help mitigate that damage.
...Hunh, that reminds me: Kyuubey said way back when that at least part of Sabrina's strangeness was having a great deal of potential without the personal history that should accompany such a thing. I'd previously thought it had been a nothing answer due to how Sabrina had just appeared but with that in consideration...
*Racks it up as a potential point towards UKG!Brina theory.*
On which note I have to wonder if lacking that personal history is also the specific reason why Sayaka couldn't copy our power. Following the update Sayaka tried to copy our powers Firn, and Sayaka, did note that she got what was effectively a "404 not found error" from us to non-meguca Madoka's "501 not implemented."
-----
Late response:
The fact remains that, one way or another, Hijiri immediately knew when we found our quarry the last time we used this thing. The possibility that it's because of the magic itself seems quite reasonable and I don't like it.
EDIT:
There was some discussion of possible grief experiments in the discord tonight. Most of the resultant theories have been added to the Science! Planner section of the Day Planner, but much the original conversation is available here:
https://vebyast.github.io/pmas-discord-quotes/#/quote_id/403023461137776640
Alas, it ran extremely long and I couldn't fit it all into the quote, but the big takeaway is the possibility of investigating whether grief, and souls for that matter, can or already do exist in higher dimensions.
Among many other possibilities.
(seriously, this is really fertile ground)
Last edited:
Highway 17 pt. 26
"Yeah, actually," you say, blinking. "Mami and I could try ribbon searching, if Mami is willing? We can't cover the entire city, but we can cover a good part of it. And, uh, dumb question, but... have you tried talking to her? By telepathy?"
"Of course I'd be willing to help." Mami nods.
"She wouldn't listen," Niko answers you, looking away. "She wouldn't listen to any of us."
"It's not a solution for finding her," Saki says, the rising sun glinting as she pushes her glasses-monocle up the bridge of her nose once again.
You sigh, faintly annoyed. You doubt you yourself can persuade Hijiri to return, not on your own. You can't give guarantees for her peace of mind, for her life here in Asunaro. There's one person who's relevant, who can give Hijiri what she wants.
"We can try the ribbon search, then," you say.
"I'll start preparing," Mami says, smiling at you and leaning against your side. She holds her hand up to the sky, fingers spread. Ribbons cascade from her open palm, fading to invisibility as she clenches her fist and lowers her arm. You can feel the network growing, spreading and webbing unseen across the buildings.
"That said..." you catch Niko's eyes. She shifts under your gaze. "You know that the only person who can really bring her back is you, right?"
"Hey, back off of Niko!" Satomi says, bristling. Dark eyes meet yours in a fierce glower, but you don't back down either.
"I'm not pressuring Niko. I'm saying: Hijiri is afraid of Niko," you say, opening your hands as you let your eyes sweep the group. Kazumi's red eyes, worried and thoughtful. Satomi, Kaoru, and Mirai are suspicious and defensive and worried by turns, their thoughts written on their faces. Umika and Saki are guarded, evaluating you quietly.
"I can't tell her to not be afraid," you say. "And no matter how much all of you trust and care about Niko, none of you can tell Hijri to not be scared, either. It doesn't work like that. The only one who can convince Hijiri she'll be safe is Niko herself."
It doesn't help that Hijiri's in full teenage rebellion mode right now, either. If she comes back with piercings and a tattoo or three, you wouldn't even be particularly surprised. Something to prove she's different from Niko.
"Sabrina's right," Mami says. She's distracted, but her voice is clear and loud. "Maybe we can catch her. But we can't convince her."
"What do you suggest, Mami?" Kazumi asks.
Mami, instead of answering, glances to you with a smile.
"Honestly? Be nice to her," you say with a shrug. "Tell her what's happened here, and maybe do a dead drop of things she needs. Food, clothes, Grief Seeds if she needs them. I mean... I'm not saying she's incapable of taking care of herself, I'm saying make life easier for her. Just... do what you would for a friend."
Kazumi glances at the rest of the Pleiades. "We'll, um. Take it under advisement?"
"It's not so simple," Umika says, folding her arms. "'If you truly love something, then set it free' is a nice sentiment, but it doesn't always work out in real life."
"That's not even what Sabrina said," Sayaka says, rolling her eyes.
"I gather you're not out to capture and punish Hijiri any more," you say calmly. "In that case, then you need to persuade her to come home."
Niko rocks back on her feet, expression twisting. She's immediately gathered up in a protective hug by Satomi, but shakes it off with an irritable twitch.
"We were already thinking of doing something like that, anyway," Niko says loudly. Not looking at you, either. "But thanks for the advice, Sabrina."
Kazumi's attention flickers back to her friends, and she sighs, wrapping her arms around a mutinous looking Mirai and Umika. "We'll leave you to the search," Kazumi says, nudging Niko to walk ahead of them.
Sayaka rolls her eyes, slumping back in her seat as the Pleiades walk off again. "Ugh," she grumbles mentally at you and Mami.
"Eh. I can't blame them for having their differences... I get the impression that Niko's annoyed with them for not seeing things her way," you say. "I mean, it can't be easy for them to - she's in a unique position and all, since Hijiri came from her Wish."
"I suppose," Sayaka says.
"Mm," you agree. "Still, I think they'll work it out. Just so happens that we're here and nominally external mediators, yeah?"
"Yeah," Sayaka says. "Can I have back support on this, instead of just a bench?"
"Sure," you say, and suit action to words. You shape Grief out of the air into proper lumbar support for both Sayaka and Mami and yourself, Mami sighing happily and tucking herself firmly against your side. "Anyway, speaking of external mediators, that's a nice segue. Would have been a nicer segue if you hadn't interrupted, though."
Sayaka sticks her tongue out at you.
"Well. To answer your earlier question, yes, we are. Eventually," you say. "We have... a lot coming up at home to deal with at home, first. Refugees, Walpurgisnacht, figuring out Clear Seeds, and whatever happens next. Just organising everything is going to be a problem. I mean, look at us right now. We're here in Asunaro helping our friends with a crisis, and meanwhile, we already have refugees coming in. It's only going to get worse."
"Yeah..." Sayaka says, frowning. "Yeah. I guess that makes sense."
"Honestly, I'm going to be depending on you and Mami and Homura for help," you say, smiling at her. "I expect things like raiders and people abusing magic and nastier magical girls coming to Mitakihara, and even the simple things. If magic is essentially free, who's going to want to hunt Witches anymore? And we'll need to handle all of that."
"Ah... not to interrupt, but the ribbon network is... um, this is as far as I can push it without straining too much," Mami says. "Um... I've covered a third of the city, maybe a half?"
Half the city. Half the bloody city, blanketed with ribbons. You beam at Mami, hugging her tight and nuzzling your cheek against the top of her head. "That's amazing, Mami. Sorry, Sayaka, gimme a moment - I'm gonna build a Grief device and then get back to you, alright?"
"Yeah, yeah," Sayaka says. "I'll fiddle with my powers a bit, see if I can come up with anything new."
You take a moment to cleanse Mami's Gem, the Grief joining what you call from thin air. It drips into your hand, flowing like wax from an invisible candle, and you mould the lump for a second, visualizing what you need before bringing your will to bear. With Niko right there, you know who you're looking for, and you force reality to bend.
Your will be done.
You blink, finding a simple, unadorned compass moulded of Grief in your hand. The needle, glinting gold in the mid-morning sun, spins wildly, directionless - but that's fine. You can feel it in your mind, an awareness of a lack in the immediate area.
"Sabrina?" Mami murmurs.
You smile at her, taking her hands in yours, cupped over the compass. "I'm good. Are you ready?"
"I am," Mami says, with a nod.
"Here we go, then," you murmur, exhaling slowly as you push your magic out, mingling and twining with Mami's. She gasps softly, curling up against you as your senses flood outwards, borne on an intricate, spiralling network of ribbons. Your awareness leaps from street to street, quicksilver lightning dancing through Asunaro.
"Anyway, Sayaka?" you murmur. Loathe as you are to disturb the almost meditative peace, you feel bad for interrupting the conversation with her.
"Yo," Sayaka says, cerulean blue eyes flickering up from her examination of her power jewels to meet yours.
"Sorry about the interruptions," you say.
"Nah, I get it," she says, waving it off. "Some things take time, and it's better to get it started earlier rather than later. I gotcha."
"Yeah," you say. "That's pretty much it. But... yeah. Y'know Nadia mentioned the Iowa group, for example? They're the Iowa group, from the US, and the last she heard they were in India? They've got something powerful on their side, and I fully expect them to come visiting when they hear about us. I don't think they'll be the only ones, either."
"And we gotta prepare for them," Sayaka says.
"Exactly," you agree, attention still mostly on your search, and Mami. "Them... I need to know more about them. The other groups, too. They're established, which means they must each have their own ways of holding sway, and we don't know how. We can't underestimate them."
"Y'know..." Sayaka cocks her head, frowning. "Clone, invisibility, and flight. I wonder what's the limit of my range?"
"What? Sayaka, you don't mean-"
"Yep," Sayaka says, with a faint grin. "Heck, I've got that vision power too, right? I can spy on them from far above, and they'll never see me."
"That... could work," you concede, still searching.
"And with clones, I'd be safe, too!" Sayaka says. "Assuming they can go that far, anyway."
"That's true," you agree. "Assuming they don't have some kind of power that can chain all the way back to you. They're established, and they're nasty. Maybe it's just that they haven't faced serious, organised resistance before, but... we can't count on it. Overconfidence is a slow and insidious killer, and all that."
"Yeah, yeah," Sayaka says, and motions to the compass in your hand. "Any luck there?"
"Not really," you sigh. You've already done a second lap of the area, not that you were expecting to find Hijiri. Carefully, gently, you withdraw your magic. "Mami? You can let the ribbons go now."
Mami sighs, and slumps bonelessly against you, blushing rosily as she smiles at you. "In a bit."
"Ugh," Sayaka says, folding her arms. "I know you had to let her go, but it feels like we're leaving things undone here."
"Yeah, well. As I said, we can't solve this problem except by force," you say. "And the only thing that'd do is breed resentment."
"I know, I know," Sayaka grumbles. "Still sucks."
"Anyway," you say, sighing and pushing yourself to your feet. You let the compass dissolve into Grief and offer Mami a hand. "Should probably go tell the Pleiades that."
Just as you start across the roof, though, Oriko emerges from the void-black privacy sphere. She walks to you, stately and unhurried.
"Airi is... somewhat tractable, if prone to hysterics and anger," Oriko pronounces, sea-green eyes flickering to Mami for a second. "She has been convinced of the... truth of the matter I sent Kirika to you about. Less so of the truth of the events leading to her swearing vengeance. I do not think our initial evaluation of her was wrong, however, do you have terms of surrender for her?"
Voting opens
[] Oriko and Anri
- [] What are you going to do with Anri?
-- [] Allowances Oriko can negotiate
-- [] Talk to Anri yourself
[] Pleiades
- [] You can't find Hijiri.
- [] What do you tell them?
[] Write-in (word count limit: 150 words)
Again, kind wish I'd gotten this out earlier. Ah, well. C'est la vie.
Also, shoutout to Phoenixian's effortpost just above this one - take a look!
"Of course I'd be willing to help." Mami nods.
"She wouldn't listen," Niko answers you, looking away. "She wouldn't listen to any of us."
"It's not a solution for finding her," Saki says, the rising sun glinting as she pushes her glasses-monocle up the bridge of her nose once again.
You sigh, faintly annoyed. You doubt you yourself can persuade Hijiri to return, not on your own. You can't give guarantees for her peace of mind, for her life here in Asunaro. There's one person who's relevant, who can give Hijiri what she wants.
"We can try the ribbon search, then," you say.
"I'll start preparing," Mami says, smiling at you and leaning against your side. She holds her hand up to the sky, fingers spread. Ribbons cascade from her open palm, fading to invisibility as she clenches her fist and lowers her arm. You can feel the network growing, spreading and webbing unseen across the buildings.
"That said..." you catch Niko's eyes. She shifts under your gaze. "You know that the only person who can really bring her back is you, right?"
"Hey, back off of Niko!" Satomi says, bristling. Dark eyes meet yours in a fierce glower, but you don't back down either.
"I'm not pressuring Niko. I'm saying: Hijiri is afraid of Niko," you say, opening your hands as you let your eyes sweep the group. Kazumi's red eyes, worried and thoughtful. Satomi, Kaoru, and Mirai are suspicious and defensive and worried by turns, their thoughts written on their faces. Umika and Saki are guarded, evaluating you quietly.
"I can't tell her to not be afraid," you say. "And no matter how much all of you trust and care about Niko, none of you can tell Hijri to not be scared, either. It doesn't work like that. The only one who can convince Hijiri she'll be safe is Niko herself."
It doesn't help that Hijiri's in full teenage rebellion mode right now, either. If she comes back with piercings and a tattoo or three, you wouldn't even be particularly surprised. Something to prove she's different from Niko.
"Sabrina's right," Mami says. She's distracted, but her voice is clear and loud. "Maybe we can catch her. But we can't convince her."
"What do you suggest, Mami?" Kazumi asks.
Mami, instead of answering, glances to you with a smile.
"Honestly? Be nice to her," you say with a shrug. "Tell her what's happened here, and maybe do a dead drop of things she needs. Food, clothes, Grief Seeds if she needs them. I mean... I'm not saying she's incapable of taking care of herself, I'm saying make life easier for her. Just... do what you would for a friend."
Kazumi glances at the rest of the Pleiades. "We'll, um. Take it under advisement?"
"It's not so simple," Umika says, folding her arms. "'If you truly love something, then set it free' is a nice sentiment, but it doesn't always work out in real life."
"That's not even what Sabrina said," Sayaka says, rolling her eyes.
"I gather you're not out to capture and punish Hijiri any more," you say calmly. "In that case, then you need to persuade her to come home."
Niko rocks back on her feet, expression twisting. She's immediately gathered up in a protective hug by Satomi, but shakes it off with an irritable twitch.
"We were already thinking of doing something like that, anyway," Niko says loudly. Not looking at you, either. "But thanks for the advice, Sabrina."
Kazumi's attention flickers back to her friends, and she sighs, wrapping her arms around a mutinous looking Mirai and Umika. "We'll leave you to the search," Kazumi says, nudging Niko to walk ahead of them.
Sayaka rolls her eyes, slumping back in her seat as the Pleiades walk off again. "Ugh," she grumbles mentally at you and Mami.
"Eh. I can't blame them for having their differences... I get the impression that Niko's annoyed with them for not seeing things her way," you say. "I mean, it can't be easy for them to - she's in a unique position and all, since Hijiri came from her Wish."
"I suppose," Sayaka says.
"Mm," you agree. "Still, I think they'll work it out. Just so happens that we're here and nominally external mediators, yeah?"
"Yeah," Sayaka says. "Can I have back support on this, instead of just a bench?"
"Sure," you say, and suit action to words. You shape Grief out of the air into proper lumbar support for both Sayaka and Mami and yourself, Mami sighing happily and tucking herself firmly against your side. "Anyway, speaking of external mediators, that's a nice segue. Would have been a nicer segue if you hadn't interrupted, though."
Sayaka sticks her tongue out at you.
"Well. To answer your earlier question, yes, we are. Eventually," you say. "We have... a lot coming up at home to deal with at home, first. Refugees, Walpurgisnacht, figuring out Clear Seeds, and whatever happens next. Just organising everything is going to be a problem. I mean, look at us right now. We're here in Asunaro helping our friends with a crisis, and meanwhile, we already have refugees coming in. It's only going to get worse."
"Yeah..." Sayaka says, frowning. "Yeah. I guess that makes sense."
"Honestly, I'm going to be depending on you and Mami and Homura for help," you say, smiling at her. "I expect things like raiders and people abusing magic and nastier magical girls coming to Mitakihara, and even the simple things. If magic is essentially free, who's going to want to hunt Witches anymore? And we'll need to handle all of that."
"Ah... not to interrupt, but the ribbon network is... um, this is as far as I can push it without straining too much," Mami says. "Um... I've covered a third of the city, maybe a half?"
Half the city. Half the bloody city, blanketed with ribbons. You beam at Mami, hugging her tight and nuzzling your cheek against the top of her head. "That's amazing, Mami. Sorry, Sayaka, gimme a moment - I'm gonna build a Grief device and then get back to you, alright?"
"Yeah, yeah," Sayaka says. "I'll fiddle with my powers a bit, see if I can come up with anything new."
You take a moment to cleanse Mami's Gem, the Grief joining what you call from thin air. It drips into your hand, flowing like wax from an invisible candle, and you mould the lump for a second, visualizing what you need before bringing your will to bear. With Niko right there, you know who you're looking for, and you force reality to bend.
Your will be done.
You blink, finding a simple, unadorned compass moulded of Grief in your hand. The needle, glinting gold in the mid-morning sun, spins wildly, directionless - but that's fine. You can feel it in your mind, an awareness of a lack in the immediate area.
"Sabrina?" Mami murmurs.
You smile at her, taking her hands in yours, cupped over the compass. "I'm good. Are you ready?"
"I am," Mami says, with a nod.
"Here we go, then," you murmur, exhaling slowly as you push your magic out, mingling and twining with Mami's. She gasps softly, curling up against you as your senses flood outwards, borne on an intricate, spiralling network of ribbons. Your awareness leaps from street to street, quicksilver lightning dancing through Asunaro.
"Anyway, Sayaka?" you murmur. Loathe as you are to disturb the almost meditative peace, you feel bad for interrupting the conversation with her.
"Yo," Sayaka says, cerulean blue eyes flickering up from her examination of her power jewels to meet yours.
"Sorry about the interruptions," you say.
"Nah, I get it," she says, waving it off. "Some things take time, and it's better to get it started earlier rather than later. I gotcha."
"Yeah," you say. "That's pretty much it. But... yeah. Y'know Nadia mentioned the Iowa group, for example? They're the Iowa group, from the US, and the last she heard they were in India? They've got something powerful on their side, and I fully expect them to come visiting when they hear about us. I don't think they'll be the only ones, either."
"And we gotta prepare for them," Sayaka says.
"Exactly," you agree, attention still mostly on your search, and Mami. "Them... I need to know more about them. The other groups, too. They're established, which means they must each have their own ways of holding sway, and we don't know how. We can't underestimate them."
"Y'know..." Sayaka cocks her head, frowning. "Clone, invisibility, and flight. I wonder what's the limit of my range?"
"What? Sayaka, you don't mean-"
"Yep," Sayaka says, with a faint grin. "Heck, I've got that vision power too, right? I can spy on them from far above, and they'll never see me."
"That... could work," you concede, still searching.
"And with clones, I'd be safe, too!" Sayaka says. "Assuming they can go that far, anyway."
"That's true," you agree. "Assuming they don't have some kind of power that can chain all the way back to you. They're established, and they're nasty. Maybe it's just that they haven't faced serious, organised resistance before, but... we can't count on it. Overconfidence is a slow and insidious killer, and all that."
"Yeah, yeah," Sayaka says, and motions to the compass in your hand. "Any luck there?"
"Not really," you sigh. You've already done a second lap of the area, not that you were expecting to find Hijiri. Carefully, gently, you withdraw your magic. "Mami? You can let the ribbons go now."
Mami sighs, and slumps bonelessly against you, blushing rosily as she smiles at you. "In a bit."
"Ugh," Sayaka says, folding her arms. "I know you had to let her go, but it feels like we're leaving things undone here."
"Yeah, well. As I said, we can't solve this problem except by force," you say. "And the only thing that'd do is breed resentment."
"I know, I know," Sayaka grumbles. "Still sucks."
"Anyway," you say, sighing and pushing yourself to your feet. You let the compass dissolve into Grief and offer Mami a hand. "Should probably go tell the Pleiades that."
Just as you start across the roof, though, Oriko emerges from the void-black privacy sphere. She walks to you, stately and unhurried.
"Airi is... somewhat tractable, if prone to hysterics and anger," Oriko pronounces, sea-green eyes flickering to Mami for a second. "She has been convinced of the... truth of the matter I sent Kirika to you about. Less so of the truth of the events leading to her swearing vengeance. I do not think our initial evaluation of her was wrong, however, do you have terms of surrender for her?"
Voting opens
[] Oriko and Anri
- [] What are you going to do with Anri?
-- [] Allowances Oriko can negotiate
-- [] Talk to Anri yourself
[] Pleiades
- [] You can't find Hijiri.
- [] What do you tell them?
[] Write-in (word count limit: 150 words)
=====
Again, kind wish I'd gotten this out earlier. Ah, well. C'est la vie.
Also, shoutout to Phoenixian's effortpost just above this one - take a look!
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- Location
- Elsewhere
High Fructose Corn Syrup.
- Location
- america
that actually made me laugh, good job.
blast flame
How far will we go if it means lighting the way?
- Location
- Perth, Australia
- Pronouns
- They/Them
We probably need to loop the Pleiades in on what concessions/terms of surrender we're offering Anri. Except the Yuuri witch related ones of course which we only fill Niko in on if we can without causing disruption.
Still I'm thinking the following:
Terms of surrender:
We have Kirika make an anti-magic enchantment that prevents her from using magic, see if Niko can make some form of tracking enchantment and have Mami tie them to her leg as some form of magical ankle bracelet. If Niko can add a muggle notice me not charm and some way of getting video+audio from her location on demand then that's extra-great.
I'm torn between explicitly barring her from revealing the truth about witches and just not mentioning it for fear of giving her the idea.
Concessions offered:
She's given Yuuri's seed with her choice of whether we turn it into a clear seed (provide her with the reasoning why being a clear seed might be better for Yuuri).
She's given clear seed access since she can't fight witches without magic.
She's permitted to go free without magic access that could threaten the Pleiades.
The big question: Do we keep her here or take her to Mitakihara?
Still I'm thinking the following:
Terms of surrender:
We have Kirika make an anti-magic enchantment that prevents her from using magic, see if Niko can make some form of tracking enchantment and have Mami tie them to her leg as some form of magical ankle bracelet. If Niko can add a muggle notice me not charm and some way of getting video+audio from her location on demand then that's extra-great.
I'm torn between explicitly barring her from revealing the truth about witches and just not mentioning it for fear of giving her the idea.
Concessions offered:
She's given Yuuri's seed with her choice of whether we turn it into a clear seed (provide her with the reasoning why being a clear seed might be better for Yuuri).
She's given clear seed access since she can't fight witches without magic.
She's permitted to go free without magic access that could threaten the Pleiades.
The big question: Do we keep her here or take her to Mitakihara?
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