Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
- Start date
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- Tags
- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
Always Happening
We could have prevented this.
- Location
- On a train with no brakes
As hilarious as the idea of basically slapping her with a lightning rod is, I'm pretty sure that's not how magic works.
- Location
- Somewhere over the rainbow
The idea isn't so much to slap her as it is to simply leave it hovering in her path of travel; if she flashes forward she'll brain herself on the gold bar, while if she antimagics the bar still hangs in the air there long enough to seriously hurt her if she then flashes again.
Script Mak3r
(Verified Sun God) (Verified Feathers)
- Location
- Hell of Blazing Fires
- Pronouns
- She/Her
- Location
- Illinois
So, here is one option, assuming I don't become convinced that Vebyast/Aura are in the right which... I'm trying to avoid reading Kazumi Magica but I'm beginning to feel like I may need to.
grinds teeth at that thought
[] Let her go, unless Mami stops her.
-[] Capture Anri. Maybe Mami does it, maybe you do.
-[] Telepathy everyone here except Anri: if you want to throw away parole, decency, and just immediately leave without further discussion then that is fine Kanna Hijiri. But if that is how you want to do this, then you will play by the Pleiades' rules if you are ever again in Asunaro. You will not hunt in this city, go anywhere near the Pleiades, or go anywhere near their frequented locales without their express permission to be obtained over telepathy. As for yourself, you'll leave anything more complicated up to them and play it how the Pleiades want you to play it, and if she truly wants to leave then you wish her the best of luck, but you will not continue to chain yourself if she violates this. You'll just atomize her.
-[] Telepathy everyone but Hijiri and Anri: you owe the Pleiades a formal apology. You'd expected her to attack you, not to just pull out Umika's powers and leave.
--[] Airi has the clear seed, she's in a nice bundle over yonder.
There seems to be an odd claim, which is that Hijiri in canon didn't decide to kill the Pleiades until she'd seen the freezer, which seems weird as fuck to me because didn't she wish beforehand? If somebody could clarify that chain of events -- whether her wish was inherently malicious or not, essentially -- I'd appreciate it tons.
grinds teeth at that thought
[] Let her go, unless Mami stops her.
-[] Capture Anri. Maybe Mami does it, maybe you do.
-[] Telepathy everyone here except Anri: if you want to throw away parole, decency, and just immediately leave without further discussion then that is fine Kanna Hijiri. But if that is how you want to do this, then you will play by the Pleiades' rules if you are ever again in Asunaro. You will not hunt in this city, go anywhere near the Pleiades, or go anywhere near their frequented locales without their express permission to be obtained over telepathy. As for yourself, you'll leave anything more complicated up to them and play it how the Pleiades want you to play it, and if she truly wants to leave then you wish her the best of luck, but you will not continue to chain yourself if she violates this. You'll just atomize her.
-[] Telepathy everyone but Hijiri and Anri: you owe the Pleiades a formal apology. You'd expected her to attack you, not to just pull out Umika's powers and leave.
--[] Airi has the clear seed, she's in a nice bundle over yonder.
There seems to be an odd claim, which is that Hijiri in canon didn't decide to kill the Pleiades until she'd seen the freezer, which seems weird as fuck to me because didn't she wish beforehand? If somebody could clarify that chain of events -- whether her wish was inherently malicious or not, essentially -- I'd appreciate it tons.
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So. This is one hell of a contentious vote. I'm glad for the discussion, and I'm proud that you guys have kept it mostly civil!
It's also finals for a lot of people.
I like that you guys love my Quest, but I think it's causing a lot of problems for you guys. I don't wanna be responsible for you guys ruining your grades or your sleep. (I mean hey, I've finished my degree, but I remember being able to ruin my sleep without any external help.
)
So I'm going to put this on hiatus for... mm, until my Sunday. That'll be Saturday for those of you in the US. Will that suffice? Would you prefer more time? Feel free to ping me with thoughts.
Also, uh, a few questions which I've missed:
@SaltyWaffles
This is split second decision time. The attempt can be made.
@Kaizuki
Yes, she has the Clear Seed.
@Racoras
It's open to interpretation what exactly Hijiri means.
It's also finals for a lot of people.
I like that you guys love my Quest, but I think it's causing a lot of problems for you guys. I don't wanna be responsible for you guys ruining your grades or your sleep. (I mean hey, I've finished my degree, but I remember being able to ruin my sleep without any external help.
)So I'm going to put this on hiatus for... mm, until my Sunday. That'll be Saturday for those of you in the US. Will that suffice? Would you prefer more time? Feel free to ping me with thoughts.
Also, uh, a few questions which I've missed:
@SaltyWaffles
This is split second decision time. The attempt can be made.
@Kaizuki
Yes, she has the Clear Seed.
@Racoras
It's open to interpretation what exactly Hijiri means.
- Location
- Central Standard Time
Stop posting and sleep.
*stops lurking and follows own advice*
*stops lurking and follows own advice*
- Location
- florida
[X] One action: Catch Hijiri with Grief.
-[X] If that fails, quickly ask Mami to go after her and to call for help (Sayaka, Pleiades).
[X] Gem Anri ASAP.
-[X] Create an opening first: Examples: Ask Mami to distract her; blind her with Grief light (flashban style); catch her with your Grief Fog; etc..
-[X] If Anri gets away, Oriko, Kirika and Sabrina will deal with her.
[X] No speechifying; no battlefield therapy. If you capture Hijiri, just tell her we're all gonna have to wait until she cools down, stops lashing out, and is willing to talk. For real, this time.
I arise from the depths of lurking!
Going back under now. Tag me if theres a big shift.
-[X] If that fails, quickly ask Mami to go after her and to call for help (Sayaka, Pleiades).
[X] Gem Anri ASAP.
-[X] Create an opening first: Examples: Ask Mami to distract her; blind her with Grief light (flashban style); catch her with your Grief Fog; etc..
-[X] If Anri gets away, Oriko, Kirika and Sabrina will deal with her.
[X] No speechifying; no battlefield therapy. If you capture Hijiri, just tell her we're all gonna have to wait until she cools down, stops lashing out, and is willing to talk. For real, this time.
I arise from the depths of lurking!
Going back under now. Tag me if theres a big shift.
AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
As I said, her original intent was to kill Niko specifically. She widened that into the Pleiades when she decided they were all just as bad considering the Freezer (And Kazumi).
That she didn't kill Niko is SUPER FUCKING WEIRD and totally ruins the theory that she made the same wish, but her issues still exist so the gemming thing is still way too dangerous.
- Location
- Illinois
So. This is one hell of a contentious vote. I'm glad for the discussion, and I'm proud that you guys have kept it mostly civil!
It's also finals for a lot of people.
I like that you guys love my Quest, but I think it's causing a lot of problems for you guys. I don't wanna be responsible for you guys ruining your grades or your sleep. (I mean hey, I've finished my degree, but I remember being able to ruin my sleep without any external help.
So I'm going to put this on hiatus for... mm, until my Sunday. That'll be Saturday for those of you in the US. Will that suffice? Would you prefer more time? Feel free to ping me with thoughts.
Also, uh, a few questions which I've missed:
@SaltyWaffles
This is split second decision time. The attempt can be made.
@Kaizuki
Yes, she has the Clear Seed.
@Racoras
It's open to interpretation what exactly Hijiri means.
Say it with me now everyone:
WE! <3! FIRN!
Vebyast
Nascent Transhuman
Thank you! Thank you so much!
If anything I'd guess more time; after finals is Christmas with family, and some places run finals right up to the day before Christmas.
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- Location
- USA
So would any of the people injecting vicious strawmen into the hivemind here (who exactly has advocated for gemsmashing Hijiri, other than Vebyast's unnamed opposing faction? Theres a dozen ways to restrain people, several for magical types, like oh say Anti-Magic Handcuffs in the style of Oriko's Ring, even if easily-reversed gemming is opposed because of her twisty personal issues WITH NO ANSWER IF SHE"D EVEN KNOW IT HAPPENED) care to try and illustrate their thoughts on a key discrepancy?
1. Hijiri did not take the opportunity to kill Niko when she seemingly had the chance
2. Hijiri has the canon powerset , which is having all of the Pleiades powers, which in canon was a result of wanting to connect to the Pleaides to see them all suffer
2b. Any specifics on the context of Hijiri wishing? Are you saying she found out about the freezer before wishing, somehow? If she wished only in relation to wanting Niko dead how does she have the powers of the others?
Saying that what Hijiri said is "open to interpretation" is.... troublesome, and hopefully can be cleared up when its no longer plot relevant I guess, but part of the question was also what did SABRINA mean by "I can't give you what you want" since that /seemed/ to common interpretation to be, perhaps a longer statement about Hijiri having to give herself peace by no longer starting fights, but cut short to instead seem that we were refusing to help Hijiri.
Very important question that I see no reason why @Firnagzen can't answer: When a Meguca is gemmed (that is, soul gem removed from proximity until their body drops) , assuming they didn't watch it float away right before, can they actually tell and make the connection "I am a puppet losing that gem caused this" ? Or if say all they know is it went dark, and a few moments later they lost conciousness and woke up later..... can a Meguca actually tell teh difference between Gemming and any other form of fiat knockout-magic? Are they perhaps constantly aware in the gem-prison just waiting for a body? (Okay the horror of that last bit and our not knowing if the Freezer was made yet might be plot-relevant, but its also easily resolved by asking Oriko about any of the several times its happened to her this quest) .
Also, can Firn or someone familiar with Kazumi Magica say whether Limiti Externi (Kazumi's antimagic attack) is a directed beam or a radius pulse, and whether it seems to require projection from anything specific like her hands versus an arbitrary startpoint like her anklebone or neck or anything else?
Anyways @Vebyast @AuraTwilight do you see any obvious flaws or unethical issues with simply giving Hijiri an anti-magic ankle bracelet (tracking capabilities optional) , whether its part of a larger "timeout chair" or the "let her go" ? You seemed to feel (Vebyast at least) that the only possible alternative to letting ehr go free and clear while we talk more was to smash her gem and nothing else could hold an antimagic-user?
=======
Edit: Copying vote rather than proxying, I don't like that catgirl has us sending the Pleiades after Anri rather than the team-arrangement Onmur is going with for bomb-fear reasons
[X] One action: Catch Hijiri with Grief.
-[X] If that fails, quickly ask Mami to go after her and to call for help (Sayaka, Pleiades).
[X] Gem Anri as soon as she's in range.
-[X] Create an opening first: Examples: Ask Mami to distract her; blind her with Grief light (flashban style); catch her with your Grief Fog; etc..
-[X] If Anri gets away, Oriko, Kirika and Sabrina will deal with her.
[X] No speechifying; no battlefield therapy. If you capture Hijiri, just tell her we're all gonna have to wait until she cools down, stops lashing out, and is willing to talk. For real, this time.
1. Hijiri did not take the opportunity to kill Niko when she seemingly had the chance
2. Hijiri has the canon powerset , which is having all of the Pleiades powers, which in canon was a result of wanting to connect to the Pleaides to see them all suffer
2b. Any specifics on the context of Hijiri wishing? Are you saying she found out about the freezer before wishing, somehow? If she wished only in relation to wanting Niko dead how does she have the powers of the others?
Saying that what Hijiri said is "open to interpretation" is.... troublesome, and hopefully can be cleared up when its no longer plot relevant I guess, but part of the question was also what did SABRINA mean by "I can't give you what you want" since that /seemed/ to common interpretation to be, perhaps a longer statement about Hijiri having to give herself peace by no longer starting fights, but cut short to instead seem that we were refusing to help Hijiri.
Very important question that I see no reason why @Firnagzen can't answer: When a Meguca is gemmed (that is, soul gem removed from proximity until their body drops) , assuming they didn't watch it float away right before, can they actually tell and make the connection "I am a puppet losing that gem caused this" ? Or if say all they know is it went dark, and a few moments later they lost conciousness and woke up later..... can a Meguca actually tell teh difference between Gemming and any other form of fiat knockout-magic? Are they perhaps constantly aware in the gem-prison just waiting for a body? (Okay the horror of that last bit and our not knowing if the Freezer was made yet might be plot-relevant, but its also easily resolved by asking Oriko about any of the several times its happened to her this quest) .
Also, can Firn or someone familiar with Kazumi Magica say whether Limiti Externi (Kazumi's antimagic attack) is a directed beam or a radius pulse, and whether it seems to require projection from anything specific like her hands versus an arbitrary startpoint like her anklebone or neck or anything else?
Anyways @Vebyast @AuraTwilight do you see any obvious flaws or unethical issues with simply giving Hijiri an anti-magic ankle bracelet (tracking capabilities optional) , whether its part of a larger "timeout chair" or the "let her go" ? You seemed to feel (Vebyast at least) that the only possible alternative to letting ehr go free and clear while we talk more was to smash her gem and nothing else could hold an antimagic-user?
=======
Edit: Copying vote rather than proxying, I don't like that catgirl has us sending the Pleiades after Anri rather than the team-arrangement Onmur is going with for bomb-fear reasons
[X] One action: Catch Hijiri with Grief.
-[X] If that fails, quickly ask Mami to go after her and to call for help (Sayaka, Pleiades).
[X] Gem Anri as soon as she's in range.
-[X] Create an opening first: Examples: Ask Mami to distract her; blind her with Grief light (flashban style); catch her with your Grief Fog; etc..
-[X] If Anri gets away, Oriko, Kirika and Sabrina will deal with her.
[X] No speechifying; no battlefield therapy. If you capture Hijiri, just tell her we're all gonna have to wait until she cools down, stops lashing out, and is willing to talk. For real, this time.
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GiftOfLove
From the Heart
Probably ought to grab the clear seed, if not Hajiri herself. It has a spec of grief at it's core we can use to make it immobile.
AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
Racoras said:
No one accused anyone of voting to gemsmash, but okay.
Factual error; She wished to connect to the Pleiades so she can monitor them in secret, with the intent of making Niko suffer specifically. Her antipathy to the other Pleiades came later.
Sayaka in PMMM had a distinct sensation of having to suck in air like she'd been drowning. Hijiri and Niko are exceptionally smart and are uniquely adept at deciphering and understanding things regarding Puella Magi. Hijiri specifically has connection magic that she uses to connect Soul Gems to each other, and thus she can easily have special perception regarding connections of hers being fucked with.
Both.
You mean aside from the practical problem that we have no way to make an antimagic ankle bracelet?
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
Kirika's already successfully enchanted an antimagic item once before, as an experiment. She should be able to do so again.
SaltyWaffles
I am dissapoint, son
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yeah, there's clearly no time for talking, and we can't allow Hijiri to escape with the Clear Seed. If her power lets her link up with Anri and escape, then we've utterly failed and the Pleiades will be in danger indefinitely.
Which means we need to yank Hijiri's gem, first thing. Sure, we can try to encase her in Grief to stop her, but we need to get her gem as insurance so that, if the encasing in Grief doesn't work, then she won't get away.
Which means we need to yank Hijiri's gem, first thing. Sure, we can try to encase her in Grief to stop her, but we need to get her gem as insurance so that, if the encasing in Grief doesn't work, then she won't get away.
Vebyast
Nascent Transhuman
You remember how the thread reacted to Sayaka? And to Oriko being an idiot? Yeah, imagine that, except that Hijiri is serious-business trying to kill us about once a chapter. If we gem Hijiri, or even really serious restrain her, I'm calling it fifty-fifty for "she witches out" and "the thread votes to smash her gem". This incident has not improved my opinion of the thread's ability to keep its head when someone challenges it. It's almost as bad as Hijiri herself.
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SaltyWaffles
I am dissapoint, son
- Pronouns
- He/Him
We've already really seriously restrained her before. She weathered the incident just fine.
- Location
- USA
Really @AuraTwilight , noones accused that?
You do remember This Mortal Coil pt 29 right? An anti-magic enchanted ring is how we helped Oriko deal with her wish-rejection pain, while it was Mami who made it rather than Sabrina or Kirika I don't see why she couldn't make an ankle bracelet
? It wasn't even an experiment of Kirikas, it was a lasting thing.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
Kirika's got a stone enchanted with Anti Magic on her Oriko's her person right now.
Hijiri doesn't have such a staff, though, and can use antimagic quickly and apparently omnidirectional with some amount of strenght, since we saw her free herself from Mami's ribbons while we were chasing her...
... Or at least that's what we've been guessing so far...
Actually, back then we were thinking Hijiri's magic was Anti Magic because we weren't clear that Limiti Esterni had an Anti Magic effect; we only had experienced our Grief being Anti-Magicked by a magical blast.
So, considering Hijiri's got all of the Pleiades' powers, I think it's more likely she used Niko's power to free herself from Mami's ribbons. Niko's power is Matter Reconstruction, FMA style: Deconstruction and Reconstruction. So, when Hijiri got wrapped in ribbons, she likely deconstructed them into base materials to get free; she was in contact with the ribbons, obviously, so that should've been easy enough.
If that is the case, and Hijiri can't necessarily use Anti Magic pulses like Kirika's, then restraining her with Grief would be more effective, since there's nothing for it to decompose into.
The first break is getting pulled in and out of timestop.
Then the next one is:
Homura dropping Sabrina out of timestop.
Going back to the roof where she had left the rope connected, carrying Sabrina's Soul Gem.
Grabbing the rope once there.
Sabrina falling on the ground, limp, disconnected.
Homura going back and reconnecting Sabrina.
Homura changing buildings.
Homura pulling Sabrina into timestop yet again.
The part in green is the part where Sabrina is Gemmed inside timestop. From Sabrina's perspective, this stretch of time didn't happen; there was an instantaenous disconnect between two moments of her experience: One moment Homura's dropping the rope, the next Sabrina's face in on the ground.
Nothing in between.
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema | Page 1425
All the Kazumis always use their staff as a focus to channel and point their Limiti Esterni.
Hijiri doesn't have such a staff, though, and can use antimagic quickly and apparently omnidirectional with some amount of strenght, since we saw her free herself from Mami's ribbons while we were chasing her...
... Or at least that's what we've been guessing so far...
Actually, back then we were thinking Hijiri's magic was Anti Magic because we weren't clear that Limiti Esterni had an Anti Magic effect; we only had experienced our Grief being Anti-Magicked by a magical blast.
So, considering Hijiri's got all of the Pleiades' powers, I think it's more likely she used Niko's power to free herself from Mami's ribbons. Niko's power is Matter Reconstruction, FMA style: Deconstruction and Reconstruction. So, when Hijiri got wrapped in ribbons, she likely deconstructed them into base materials to get free; she was in contact with the ribbons, obviously, so that should've been easy enough.
If that is the case, and Hijiri can't necessarily use Anti Magic pulses like Kirika's, then restraining her with Grief would be more effective, since there's nothing for it to decompose into.
This is Sabrina's experience with being Gemmed:
The first break is getting pulled in and out of timestop.
Then the next one is:
Homura dropping Sabrina out of timestop.
Going back to the roof where she had left the rope connected, carrying Sabrina's Soul Gem.
Grabbing the rope once there.
Sabrina falling on the ground, limp, disconnected.
Homura going back and reconnecting Sabrina.
Homura changing buildings.
Homura pulling Sabrina into timestop yet again.
The part in green is the part where Sabrina is Gemmed inside timestop. From Sabrina's perspective, this stretch of time didn't happen; there was an instantaenous disconnect between two moments of her experience: One moment Homura's dropping the rope, the next Sabrina's face in on the ground.
Nothing in between.
And here's the same scene from Homura's side:
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema | Page 1425
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AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
You do remember This Mortal Coil pt 29 right? An anti-magic enchanted ring is how we helped Oriko deal with her wish-rejection pain, while it was Mami who made it rather than Sabrina or Kirika I don't see why she couldn't make an ankle bracelet
Guys, we only have access to Sabrina and Mami right now. Anyone else will not be able to help us in time before Hijiri takes off. We effectively do not have antimagic as a means of restraining Hijiri for this vote.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
Oh, I found this quote.
So, making a small change to my vote in view of this old quote...:
... And this thing I asked Firn at some point:
We've seen Saki use her lightning travel; we know what it feels like. Yet, right now, Hijiri's magic is something we haven't felt before:
... While still being Saki's lightning magic.
So, in order to interrupt the teleport, we need to hurt/shock Hijiri (not that we didn't have this possibility in mind already):
EDIT: New vote a few posts below.
[X] One action: Interrupt Hijiri's spellcasting (pain/shock).
-[X] Secondary: Restrain her.
-[X] If that fails,if feasible, quickly ask Mami to go after her and to call for help (Sayaka, Pleiades).
[X] Gem Anri as soon as she's in range.
-[X] Create an opening first: Examples: Ask Mami to distract her; blind her with Grief light (flashbang style); catch her with your Grief Fog; etc..
-[X] If Anri gets away, Oriko, Kirika and Sabrina will deal with her.
[X] No speechifying; no battlefield therapy. If you capture Hijiri, just tell her we're all gonna have to wait until she cools down, stops lashing out, and is willing to talk. For real, this time.
... And not that I didn't have this in a previous iteration of the vote, or maybe the previous vote, mind.
... But since she's lightningized, the attack might just go through her?
Maybe it's either Gemming or nothing?
Teleport is a thing.
So, making a small change to my vote in view of this old quote...:
(Sakura's and Saki's teleports might not be the same power, but I think there's a good chance Saki's teleport requires the same sort of focus Sakura's does. Most magics should need focus.)
... And this thing I asked Firn at some point:
I didn't think much about this then, but the point, I take, is:
We've seen Saki use her lightning travel; we know what it feels like. Yet, right now, Hijiri's magic is something we haven't felt before:
... While still being Saki's lightning magic.
Thus, Hijiri's teleporting, not magic-travelling.
So, in order to interrupt the teleport, we need to hurt/shock Hijiri (not that we didn't have this possibility in mind already):
EDIT: New vote a few posts below.
-[X] Secondary: Restrain her.
-[X] If that fails,
[X] Gem Anri as soon as she's in range.
-[X] Create an opening first: Examples: Ask Mami to distract her; blind her with Grief light (flashbang style); catch her with your Grief Fog; etc..
-[X] If Anri gets away, Oriko, Kirika and Sabrina will deal with her.
[X] No speechifying; no battlefield therapy. If you capture Hijiri, just tell her we're all gonna have to wait until she cools down, stops lashing out, and is willing to talk. For real, this time.
... And not that I didn't have this in a previous iteration of the vote, or maybe the previous vote, mind.
... But since she's lightningized, the attack might just go through her?
Maybe it's either Gemming or nothing?
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