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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Everybody currently on this bandwagon:

@Racoras, @defenestrator, @Spector29, @Spectral Waltz, @Higure, @Demojay, @Redshirt Army, @Faraway-R, @query, @Shadowhisker, @Romka, @cmwatford

Due to what I've writen in the above post, I believe we can't restrain Hijiri without Gemming her. I had the impression Saki's magic didn't allow teleports in PMAS, but I see I've misread.

Hijiri seems to be literally teleporting.

If we want to restrain her ourself, we probably needed to hit her the past update; right now, unless we can 'shock' her somehow, the only way to stop her ourselves is to gem her.

Otherwise, it seems she'll get away.

Maybe we can call "Mami!" and see if she's got an ace up her sleeve. :confused: She did have a Ribbon on Hijiri, at least!

Unless Saki's teleport has short range (which wasn't the case in PMKM), Hijiri'll get away. We can't actually restrain Hijiri now that she's mid-teleport, if we're not willing to risk triggering her issues by Gemming.
 
Onmur said:
Maybe it's either Gemming or nothing?
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If it is gemming or nothing, I vote gemming. The consequences of gemming (especially when done as quickly and cleanly as an interrupted teleport) are, I think, being overstated, while the consequences politically of letting her go are in turn being ignored.

Ideally, we can say the right words and end up having to neither gem her nor let her go, and hopefully other methods of interrupt can also work. But if we do end up having to make that choice, it's gemming all the way for me.
 
I think we can disrupt her by just making her lose focus, and I think we can do that not just through pain. Maybe solidify a bit of our grief fog, then have it rapidly approach her eyes? Which could have her instinctively shield her eyes.
 
Redshirt Army said:
If it is gemming or nothing, I vote gemming. The consequences of gemming (especially when done as quickly and cleanly as an interrupted teleport) are, I think, being overstated, while the consequences politically of letting her go are in turn being ignored.

Ideally, we can say the right words and end up having to neither gem her nor let her go, and hopefully other methods of interrupt can also work. But if we do end up having to make that choice, it's gemming all the way for me.
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I don't think we have time to talk at all. She's literally lightning out.

Since this on hiatus, and I believe this new info will make some voters reconsider, I will change the bandawagon I'm momentraily holding to 'Gem/take Gem'.

Since the restrain option doesn't seem to exist; it seems we've got a bit of a binary choice: Gem or Let go and telepathy.

defenestrator said:
I think we can disrupt her by just making her lose focus, and I think we can do that not just through pain. Maybe solidify a bit of our grief fog, then have it rapidly approach her eyes? Which could have her instinctively shield her eyes.
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I thought of things like making a Grief flashbang, or making non-burning Grief fire, but considering Hijiri is already lightning, I don't think we have the time.

[X] One action: Take Hijiri's Gem.
-[X] If she's still in range afterwards, restrain her.
-[X] If that fails, if feasible, quickly ask Mami to go after her and to call for help (Sayaka, Pleiades).
[X] Gem Anri as soon as she's in range. Rush her if she stops moving towards us.
-[X] Create an opening first: Examples: Ask Mami to distract her; blind her with Grief light (flashbang style); catch her with your Grief Fog; etc..
-[X] If Anri gets away, Oriko, Kirika and Sabrina will deal with her.
[X] No speechifying; no battlefield therapy. If you capture Hijiri, just tell her we're all gonna have to wait until she cools down, stops lashing out, and is willing to talk. For real, this time.

People who don't want to Gem Hijiri, get off the bandwagon!

*Kicks at people* :V
 
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Every major consequence of letting Hijiri go is bad.
  • We break the faith the Pleiades has in us by letting someone who has admitted to attacking a member free.
  • We show we don't care that much if someone steals a Clear Seed (remember, we were practically foaming at the mouth about this one when we got into town).
  • We potentially let a violent offender with a grudge out on a suspicion (not even a promise - she hasn't told us that this is what she plans to do) that she just wants to run away.
  • We expose the Pleiades to potential reprisal if Hijiri doesn't leave, while we may be minutes away in Mitakihara.
Honestly, though, this is all bad, but if we could be sure she would leave and that letting Hijiri go was the only way we could help her regain emotional stability, I think it might be worth considering. The problem is, we aren't helping her by letting her go. If anything, letting her skip town is just as much (or more) of a death sentence as capturing her is being argued to be.

We have no reason to believe someone who has been aggressively uncooperative will play nice now and leave, but if she does, she is:
  • a young, homeless runaway
  • in a city with an entirely different set of meguca who are very likely to be hostile.
  • apparently completely ignorant of important things about being a magical girl
  • (supposedly) only concerned with living a peaceful life
    • (I just have to point out, those last two combined with the common misconception that a filled gem takes away powers suggest she might just intentionally let her gem fill)
  • hostile to any help we might try to give her, even if she knew the stakes (which, as above, she doesn't)
    • (if she leaves, we won't necessarily know where she is and based on how she's been acting so far, there's no way in hell she's accepting any 'help' from us)
All that combined and she's practically guaranteed to witch out within the month, even ignoring any potential manipulation from Kyubey. And that's assuming she actually leaves the city (which I'll admit, might be likely, but is definitely not certain). On the rare chance she does survive, the only way I can see that going is by giving into the crazy and becoming a Soujo-esqu lunatic. It would be letting an obviously emotionally unstable girl in the middle of a self-image crisis throw herself into a high-risk, high-pressure situation without most of the relevant facts and no support structure. That sounds to me like exactly the kind of thing we're trying to prevent. The only arguably good consequence of letting her go is:
  • We don't have to deal with Hijiri for the rest of this arc
And even that's far from sure, if she decides not to leave town. Letting her go isn't helping her, it's just a death sentence where we don't have to see it and can pretend she lived happily ever after.

If the choice is gem her or let her free, we can find a way to deal with her response to gemming as long as she's still around us.

TLDR; Letting Hijiri go is bad politically, potentially dangerous to our friends, and is as good as suicide for Hijiri. Gemming might suck, but it's better than nothing.

[x] Onmur
 
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So long as make a flashbang isn't intrpreted as constuct a flashbang grenade out of grief and set it off, we can make a flashbang with grief instantly. Just make the grief form a cavitation bubble, or instead of experimenting just shine a bright light in hijiri's face or play discordant loud sounds within her ears.
 


If you don't want to let Hijiri go, but you don't want to kill her, vote for me. She won't run away after that. It'd be the coward's way out.

Also: Six hours from posting that the thread's going to get fed up with Hijiri and vote to kill her to it actually happening. *bitter laughter intensifies*
 
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My main interest right now is not blowing Anri's head off because we're upset we failed with Hijiri.

I would prefer we capture Hijiri and convince her that she doesn't need volence to solve her existential crisis, but I'm mainly voting for the camp that wants to handle Hijiri with kid gloves because they don't want to take out their frustration and fear on our next problem.

I would at least like to give Anri as much of a chance as we gave Hijiri, rather than instantly meting out a crippling punishment that would be fatal on a normal human.

Edit: It appears the votes have changed from headshotting Anri to yanking her gem.
Adhoc vote count started by Madou Sutegobana on Dec 12, 2017 at 11:56 AM, finished with 130340 posts and 8 votes.
  • [X] One action: Take Hijiri's Gem.
    -[X] If she's still in range afterwards, restrain her.
    -[X] If that fails, if feasible, quickly ask Mami to go after her and to call for help (Sayaka, Pleiades).
    [X] Gem Anri as soon as she's in range. Rush her if she stops moving towards us.
    -[X] Create an opening first: Examples: Ask Mami to distract her; blind her with Grief light (flashbang style); catch her with your Grief Fog; etc..
    -[X] If Anri gets away, Oriko, Kirika and Sabrina will deal with her.
    [X] No speechifying; no battlefield therapy. If you capture Hijiri, just tell her we're all gonna have to wait until she cools down, stops lashing out, and is willing to talk. For real, this time.
    [X] One action: Catch Hijiri with Grief.
    -[X] If that fails, quickly ask Mami to go after her and to call for help (Sayaka, Pleiades).
    [X] Gem Anri ASAP.
    -[X] Create an opening first: Examples: Ask Mami to distract her; blind her with Grief light (flashban style); catch her with your Grief Fog; etc..
    -[X] If Anri gets away, Oriko, Kirika and Sabrina will deal with her.
    [X] No speechifying; no battlefield therapy. If you capture Hijiri, just tell her we're all gonna have to wait until she cools down, stops lashing out, and is willing to talk. For real, this time.
    [X] One action: Catch Hijiri with Grief.
    -[X] If that fails, quickly ask Mami to go after her and to call for help (Sayaka, Pleiades).
    [X] Gem Anri as soon as she's in range.
    -[X] Create an opening first: Examples: Ask Mami to distract her; blind her with Grief light (flashban style); catch her with your Grief Fog; etc..
    -[X] If Anri gets away, Oriko, Kirika and Sabrina will deal with her.
    [X] No speechifying; no battlefield therapy. If you capture Hijiri, just tell her we're all gonna have to wait until she cools down, stops lashing out, and is willing to talk. For real, this time.
    [X] Gem her.
    [X] Vebyast
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Adhoc vote count started by Madou Sutegobana on Dec 12, 2017 at 11:59 AM, finished with 267 posts and 36 votes.
  • [X] One action: Take Hijiri's Gem.
    -[X] If she's still in range afterwards, restrain her.
    -[X] If that fails, if feasible, quickly ask Mami to go after her and to call for help (Sayaka, Pleiades).
    [X] Gem Anri as soon as she's in range. Rush her if she stops moving towards us.
    -[X] Create an opening first: Examples: Ask Mami to distract her; blind her with Grief light (flashbang style); catch her with your Grief Fog; etc..
    -[X] If Anri gets away, Oriko, Kirika and Sabrina will deal with her.
    [X] No speechifying; no battlefield therapy. If you capture Hijiri, just tell her we're all gonna have to wait until she cools down, stops lashing out, and is willing to talk. For real, this time.
    [x] Do not stop Hijiri. Maintain telepathic contact.
    -[x] Maybe Mami can do her invisible intangible ribbon tracking thing, but don't press it.
    [x] Telepathically: "Hijiri, I misspoke. When I said I couldn't give you what you want, I meant it's something I can help with; you still need to do your part."
    -[x] "I'm sorry for how this is going so far; I never wanted you to be hurt. I thought I might be in the best position to help you, because we came into being in similar ways."
    --[x] "Please, hear me out. Let me help you until there's nothing more we can do. It's not over, don't give up."
    ---[x] "You can still live the life YOU want to life. YOUR life, not Niko's. But not if you do this. Please, Hijiri. You control your own future, right now. Your actions right now decide everything."
    [x] So she's giving up because her perfect life can't be handed to her on a platter? It'd be ironic if it weren't so pathetic. She needs to try harder if she wants to achieve her goals.
    [x] After that, broadcast, including to Hijiri: Let her go. She's not going to try anything.
    [x] Hand tracking of Anri off to another sensor suite - grief telescope, more focused Mami ribbons, something else - and disconnect so Mami can start getting back up to speed.
    [x] Fade back to buy time.
    [x] Tell the Pleiades to form a perimeter.
    [X] One action: Catch Hijiri with Grief.
    -[X] If that fails, quickly ask Mami to go after her and to call for help (Sayaka, Pleiades).
    [X] Have Mami restrain Anri -- and have Mami grab her soul gem, too. Don't communicate that out loud, use telepathy.
    -[X] If Anri gets away, sic the other eight meguca here on her.
    [X] No speechifying; no battlefield therapy. If you capture Hijiri, just tell her we're all gonna have to wait until she cools down, stops lashing out, and is willing to talk. For real, this time.
    [x] Gem her
    [X] "Do you think you're the only person here who was created by a wish to fulfill a purpose? You're not! I know your circumstances suck, I really do, but that's not a reason to make this situation worse when we're here to actually help you."
    [x] Shield yourself and Mami; open the roof to let Hijiri go.
    -[x] Telepathy Hijiri: Tell her to just go. Apologize. You hoped things would've gone better; you were even excited to find someone like yourself at some point.
    [X] Fully encase her in Grief, pulling from all of the Grief that's immediately available closest to her. Yank her Soul Gem--though don't take it out of range. She'll only lose the connection if she teleports out herself.
    [x] "I think I was also created by someone's wish, Hijiri. I was hoping we'd be able to connect over that. Please stay and we can work this out together"
    [X] One action: Catch Hijiri with Grief.
    -[X] If that fails, quickly ask Mami to go after her and to call for help (Sayaka, Pleiades).
    [X] Gem Anri ASAP.
    -[X] Create an opening first: Examples: Ask Mami to distract her; blind her with Grief light (flashban style); catch her with your Grief Fog; etc..
    -[X] If Anri gets away, Oriko, Kirika and Sabrina will deal with her.
    [X] No speechifying; no battlefield therapy. If you capture Hijiri, just tell her we're all gonna have to wait until she cools down, stops lashing out, and is willing to talk. For real, this time.
    [X] null
    [X] One action: Catch Hijiri with Grief.
    -[X] If that fails, quickly ask Mami to go after her and to call for help (Sayaka, Pleiades).
    [X] Gem Anri as soon as she's in range.
    -[X] Create an opening first: Examples: Ask Mami to distract her; blind her with Grief light (flashban style); catch her with your Grief Fog; etc..
    -[X] If Anri gets away, Oriko, Kirika and Sabrina will deal with her.
    [X] No speechifying; no battlefield therapy. If you capture Hijiri, just tell her we're all gonna have to wait until she cools down, stops lashing out, and is willing to talk. For real, this time.
    [X]Immediately: Apply stabs/griefwalling for teleport interrupt
    [X]Keep Hijiri and Airi cleansed
    [X]Pleiades:
    -[X]Stand by, we'll have Airi contained in just a moment.
    -[X]Could someone bus in the Kures?
    [X]Hijiri:
    -[X]We were created to help people-- everyone-- but our good will is finite and she is grievously abusing it.
    -[X]She gets one more chance to tell us the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help her God, and we will let her go.
    --[X]What did she Wish for?
    ---[X]To escape and live a peaceful life: Call Hijiri out on her bullshit, demand answers-- she's either lying through her teeth or really fucking stupid.
    ---[X]To kill Niko/the Pleiades/see them suffer: We understand. Let her go; she can have a happier life somewhere else, and we're still willing to give her cleansing. However, she is banished from Asunaro effective immediately, on pain of death.
    -[X]Apply stabs to any further teleportation attempts until we're done with her
    [X]Gem Airi the moment she's in range; pursue if she attempts to escape
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I was hesitant to make this argument, but I think that at this point I have to. I think that Brinapilot's vote-comprehension fuckup may have been the Hand of Madokami. What I wrote earlier, about this opening up an entire new style of argument to point at Hijiri... I think that that's the critical point here. What we've been doing wouldn't work, and in retrospect what we'd actually voted for probably wouldn't have worked either. None of the "traditional" votes, gemming her or pleading with her, lead to good outcomes. I think that we need an entirely new strategy and I think that someone is doing their damnedest to give it to us. We need to take it.
 
[X] Cause Hijiri physical pain.
-[X] If that fails, if feasible, quickly ask Mami to go after her and to call for help (Sayaka, Pleiades).
[X] Gem Anri as soon as she's in range. Rush her if she stops moving towards us.
-[X] Create an opening first: Examples: Ask Mami to distract her; blind her with Grief light (flashbang style); catch her with your Grief Fog; etc..
-[X] If Anri gets away, Oriko, Kirika and Sabrina will deal with her.
[X] No speechifying; no battlefield therapy. If you capture Hijiri, just tell her we're all gonna have to wait until she cools down, stops lashing out, and is willing to talk. For real, this time.
 
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I thought that this couldn't get any worse, but I was wrong. How did this thread get to voting for torture? What the fuck. This is not okay. What are you thinking? What is going through your head right now that you are literally voting for "cause intense physical pain" pointed at a scared 14-year-old girl? What the fuck are you doing?
 
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We may have already lost our one shot to stop Hijiri from leaving.

To explain, Brinapilot sometimes acts out the discussion in the thread in realtime.

So at first we thought Hijiri was attacking and were divided on how to restrain her, then we thought she was going to flee really fast and were divided on whether to stop her at all, and only recently have we realized (almost to the deadline of when it normally would have been posted) that she is going to attempt to teleport away and we are divided on both how and whether to stop her from leaving.

I would not fault the interpretation of our vote that Sabrina will hesitate and react too late to stop Hijiri from teleporting.
 
The goal is disorientation, near as I can figure

A flashbang, therefore, will work

Also it might be difficult to cause living lightning pain, so there's that too
 
Vebyast said:
I thought that this couldn't get any worse, but I was wrong. How did this thread get to voting for torture? What the fuck. This is not okay. What are you thinking? What is going through your head right now that you are literally voting for "cause intensive physical pain" pointed a scared 14-year-old girl? What the fuck are you doing?
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Please calm down Vebyast, your's is one of the sanest plans and I would hate for you to get suspended during this vote due to overreacting to other questers proposals.
 
cmwatford said:
[X] Cause Hijiri intense physical pain
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---
Sabrina: Good! Your hate has made you powerful. Now, fulfill your destiny and take your place at my side.

Hijiri: Never. I'll never turn to your side. You have failed, Your Highness. I am my own person not like my mother before me.

Sabrina: So be it... Hijiri. If you will not be turned, you will be gemmed.
 
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