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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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SaltyWaffles said:
If she gets away because you guys were too fucking afraid to yank her gem, the entire ensuing mess is on you.

Oh yeah, and @Always Happening: as a reminder, Airi is rapidly closing in on us. We might want to deal with her (as in, yank her soul gem as soon as she comes into range) before going off on a lecture at Hijiri.
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Order of operations is currently disable Hijiri, disable Airi, then lecture Hijiri while Airi's pinned. If Mami can't drop the net on her, she's not roof-hopping anywhere if we lop off her goddamn legs.

Airi's magic isn't particularly threatening to us, and given that we're capable of rendering her into an unusually large mound of tartar with a cloud of monomolecular razors from an entire football field away-- and she's heading right towards us in a no doubt apoplectic rage-- I'm not super concerned about her getting away.

[X]Immediately: Encase Hijiri in a solid block of Grief using the utility fog on/surrounding her
-[X]Once she's trapped, rearrange it internally to conduct sound so you can talk to her
-[X]Seize Soul Gem as able, but don't rock her
[X]Mami: Collapse the web onto Airi
-[X]Keep her pinned; we'll take care of her in a minute
-[X]If she breaks free, dissolve the network
--[X]Legs are a privilege, not a right
[X]Simultaneously, Pleiades:
-[X]Form a perimeter: Hijiri tried making a break for it, but we have things under control; both of them should be contained in a moment
-[X]Could someone bus in the Kures?
[X]Hijiri: Recap, in a very short summary, what Hijiri has done today for her. She committed burglary and assault, said some chuuni shit about nobody being able to help with her unique problems that nobody can understand, and then tried to run away afterwards like she hadn't done anything.
-[X] Does she not understand the depth of the hole she is digging for herself? Most groups would have killed her for what she did in the first place, and she is very lucky that that is neither the Pleiades nor Mitakihara. You are trying to construct a situation where you don't have to help kick her out of her hometown, which would result in people dying anywhere else because territory. But you are not about to set a precedent of people walking over you because they're troubled middleschoolers.

I'd really like to have a privacy bubble conversation between us, Airi, and Oriko after this.
 
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I'd very much like for us to specifically keep a grip on Hijiri's soul gem to keep her in place as a contingency. Our grief isn't actually impenetrable to magic effects, so it's possible for her lightning to blast through it at the moment.

The only time it should matter if we keep a grip is if regular containment fails, so why not do it?
 
Guys, I think the idea was to have ONE reaction to Hijiri. Mind you we still have the write in option but it seems like we're suppose to be doing a split second single action choice rather then a 5 layered plan.

but thats just me.
 
DB_Explorer said:
Guys, I think the idea was to have ONE reaction to Hijiri. Mind you we still have the write in option but it seems like we're suppose to be doing a split second single action choice rather then a 5 layered plan.

but thats just me.
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Then why would it be 150 words? If it was a split second choice without elaboration it would be less, surely?
 
DB_Explorer said:
Guys, I think the idea was to have ONE reaction to Hijiri. Mind you we still have the write in option but it seems like we're suppose to be doing a split second single action choice rather then a 5 layered plan.

but thats just me.
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You're not wrong. However, if the first action works, i.e. hugging her with grief, then others become possible.
Edit: ninja'd, I guess.
 
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Redshirt Army said:
I'd very much like for us to specifically keep a grip on Hijiri's soul gem to keep her in place as a contingency. Our grief isn't actually impenetrable to magic effects, so it's possible for her lightning to blast through it at the moment.

The only time it should matter if we keep a grip is if regular containment fails, so why not do it?
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Have we actually tested magical attacks vs. solid, stationary Grief? Edited either way.

DB_Explorer said:
Guys, I think the idea was to have ONE reaction to Hijiri. Mind you we still have the write in option but it seems like we're suppose to be doing a split second single action choice rather then a 5 layered plan.

but thats just me.
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Getting one reaction to Hijiri about to take off, then 150 words of subsequent actions is the working assumption; that's why I prefaced the reaction with 'Immediately:'
 
I think we can get away with all this planning, because Sabrina's a hypercognitive. As a whole, we think a different level from most other humans.


Also, switching vote to

[X] Always Happening
 
If you hold her soul gem while she's teleporting, her body arrives at her destination sans gem and falls over. This has happened before.
 
Always Happening said:
[]Seize Soul Gem as able, but don't rock her
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Too damn dangerous, both the social and physical consequences are predictable and easy to see.

[X]Immediately: Encase Hijiri in a solid block of Grief using the utility fog on/surrounding her
-[X]Once she's trapped, rearrange it internally to conduct sound so you can talk to her
[X]Mami: Collapse the web onto Airi
-[X]Keep her pinned; we'll take care of her in a minute
-[X]If she breaks free, dissolve the network
[X]Simultaneously, Pleiades:
-[X]Form a perimeter: Hijiri tried making a break for it, but we have things under control; both of them should be contained in a moment
-[X]Could someone bus in the Kures?
[X]Hijiri: Recap, in a very short summary, what Hijiri has done today for her. She committed burglary and assault, said some chuuni shit about nobody being able to help with her unique problems that nobody can understand, and then tried to run away afterwards like she hadn't done anything.
-[X] Does she not understand the depth of the hole she is digging for herself? Most groups would have killed her for what she did in the first place, and she is very lucky that that is neither the Pleiades nor Mitakihara. You are trying to construct a situation where you don't have to help kick her out of her hometown, which would result in people dying anywhere else because territory. But you are not about to set a precedent of people walking over you because they're troubled middleschoolers.

"Also removing the "legs are a privilege, not a right" because I find it way too edgy for my liking. Other than those two changes, the vote is the same.
 
The Phoenixian said:
-[X] Does she not understand the depth of the hole she is digging for herself? Most groups would have killed her for what she did in the first place, and she is very lucky that that is neither the Pleiades nor Mitakihara. You are trying to construct a situation where you don't have to help kick her out of her hometown, which would result in people dying anywhere else because territory. But you are not about to set a precedent of people walking over you because they're troubled middleschoolers.
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I think that this won't work. It's too rational and too focused on attacking her decisions. It'll only strengthen her resolve. She's not acting like this because it's a good idea, she's doing it because she's given up and is trying to do something, anything. Her entire goal now is to dig herself a deep enough pit that her life changes permanently. Hell, after that bitter smile? Even odds she's actively suicidal right now. On further analysis, my biggest problem with letting her go wouldn't be her attacking the Pleiades, it'd be her witching out. And wouldn't that be a great way to kick off Puella Magi Adfligo Kazumi.

[x] Hijiri: Contain using grief to give yourself time to talk. It's time for a good old shouneny philosophy-while-fighting.
[x] Hijiri: Challenge her determination. You can't give her a better life, therefore it's impossible? She needs to try harder.

I'm not convinced that we get to talk about the other situations, but because I have the word count and why not:

[x] Anri: Buy time. Web her with ribbons, retreat, blow a leg off, doesn't really matter.
[x] Pleiades: Form a perimeter.
 
Vebyast said:
"This vote fails deadly" are not words that I like to hear in my quests.
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I'm not sure how that's a "fail deadly" scenario? If she gems herself by teleporting then she has no chance to recognize that we disconnected her in the first place. As far as she'd be able to tell we just KO'd her - not like she has any room to complain there, given she did the same to Niko.

Her getting away is the less acceptable option, to me, and this only kicks in if the first line of containment fails.
 
[x] "I think I was also created by someone's wish, Hijiri. I was hoping we'd be able to connect over that. Please stay and we can work this out together"

Back to (a slightly tweaked) original vote until someone posts something better.
 
Redshirt Army said:
I'm not sure how that's a "fail deadly" scenario? If she gems herself by teleporting then she has no chance to recognize that we disconnected her in the first place. As far as she'd be able to tell we just KO'd her - not like she has any room to complain there, given she did the same to Niko.

Her getting away is the less acceptable option, to me, and this only kicks in if the first line of containment fails.
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KOing her is similarly off the table. Doing it without lichbombing her is still better, but the problem to Hijiri's psychology is fundamentally the loss of control. Her entire behavior right now is "Scared teenager acting out in a desperate attempt to gain control". If she were ten years younger she'd be literally smearing shit on the walls. Same behavior-set. Controlling her more strongly will strengthen her attempts. Even blocking her here is risky, and the only reason I'm doing it is to try to attract every vote that I can get from the "kill her and let madokami sort it out" crowd. And yes, I think that I have put together a social that will make her turn around. If for no other reason than that she'll be wanting to fight us.
 
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Redshirt Army said:
I'm not sure how that's a "fail deadly" scenario? If she gems herself by teleporting then she has no chance to recognize that we disconnected her in the first place. As far as she'd be able to tell we just KO'd her - not like she has any room to complain there, given she did the same to Niko.
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I'll point out that there is a white rat running around willing to answer any and all questions who shows up after witch- and lichbombs are dropped and delivers the truth in the worst way possible.
 
Raiseth said:
"If someone says it is useless to hope, I'll tell they are wrong every time." Or something.
I think it was more of a pragmatic approach to the problem of housing Megucas we've pissed off and beaten up. Not everyone has convenient friends who can take care of them while they lie around having a nervous breakdown ( at least ) partially caused by us. Come to think of it, not everyone has a convenient nervous breakdown instead of, you know, fighting us to the death.

Don't get me wrong: I'm all in for "Shoot first, ask questions when you have the time" approach. Just... it has its own problems and will not be an ideal solution. This is meant to be frustrating. We are dealing with teenagers. I've been a teenager myself not too long ago. And girls in this universe are more emotive or something, which makes farming them for Grief more effective, but also a bitch to talk to most of them.

And Oriko... We have to convince Homumom first... somehow.
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Always Happening said:
Yeah, we've probably been over-lenient with Hijiri especially, and shock-and-awe tactics are generally pretty good at cutting through this sort of melodramatic teenage horseshit. Perhaps it would be enlightening to her to explain what happened the last time a couple magical girls attacked our friends. There were no pleasant conversations involved; we just teleported on top of them, shattered one's knee with a hammer, and sawed the other nearly in half with a machine gun. We're friends now. Ironically, they still put up more of a fight, despite being just as green and having to eat a surprise round.

...Okay, maybe that's not disabling them humanely, but still. And yeah, given that anything we have to say is necessarily by committee, Mami and Oriko are probably generally better socialgucas than we are, and Kazumi will be against pretty much everyone except present company.

Talking with Airi to any great degree should come after we dunk on her, and I don't want to see us coddle the Soujus like we coddled Hijiri.
that or i really just shouldn't post immediately after waking up
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Sorry, but I believe this is completely missing the point.

We've been trying to do battlefield therapy. Which is not a thing that works. But we try nonetheless. And fail.

And while trying that, we put too much time and effort into trying to talk sense into people while other people are trying to shoot our face in, and we're also usually trying to talk sense into those people too.

It's never going to work. We try to do too much, too well, too quickly, and fail at doing everything nearly as well as we want to.

What I'm proposing is that next time we open with asking everyone to talk, as we usually do, making our case that talking things through would be the best course of action our 'opponents' can take, and if that fails, stop trying to speechify people. Concentrate on capturing them, stopping them, and save the talk for later, for after they're not flailing and lashing about and not listening.

And by the way, the point of that microupdate? Hijiri is not listening. She's scared, she's not gonna listen to anything we say, and if we manage to catch her, she's gonna be more scared, and she will not listen at all.

On that note:

[X] One action: Catch Hijiri with Grief.
-[X] If that fails, quickly ask Mami to go after her and to call for help (Sayaka, Pleiades).

[X] Gem Anri ASAP.
-[X] Create an opening first: Examples: Ask Mami to distract her; blind her with Grief light (flashban style); catch her with your Grief Fog; etc..
-[X] If Anri gets away, Oriko, Kirika and Sabrina will deal with her.

[X] No speechifying; no battlefield therapy. If you capture Hijiri, just tell her we're all gonna have to wait until she cools down, stops lashing out, and is willing to talk. For real, this time.
 
If Hijiri escapes and the Pleiades bitch at us we can say that there is no magical girl justice system and that in the long term our options are either get along or execute her so we're trying to maximize the chances of us getting along.
 
blast flame said:
If Hijiri escapes and the Pleiades bitch at us we can say that there is no magical girl justice system and that in the long term our options are either get along or execute her so we're trying to maximize the chances of us getting along.
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The standard answer across the 'nice' magical girl groups for stunts like this is "exile", you realize? Even Mami has threatened people with death unless they leave, before.
 
Redshirt Army said:
The standard answer across the 'nice' magical girl groups for stunts like this is "exile", you realize? Even Mami has threatened people with death unless they leave, before.
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Exile doesn't work for the kind of threat Hijiri potentially represents. She's almost as much a danger to the Pleiades if she's free and decides to go full revenge like she did in canon as if she wasn't exiled.

Exile doesn't stop someone from coming back into town and, say, blowing up your house while you sleep. It's a violation of the exile of course but what does it matter at that point?
 
Onmur said:
Sorry, but I believe this is completely missing the point.

We've been trying to do battlefield therapy. Which is not a thing that works. But we try nonetheless. And fail.

And while trying that, we put too much time and effort into trying to talk sense into people while other people are trying to shoot our face in, and we're also usually trying to talk sense into those people too.

It's never going to work. We try to do too much, too well, too quickly, and fail at doing everything nearly as well as we want to.

What I'm proposing is that next time we open with asking everyone to talk, as we usually do, making our case that talking things through would be the best course of action our 'opponents' can take, and if that fails, stop trying to speechify people. Concentrate on capturing them, stopping them, and save the talk for later, for after they're not flailing and lashing about and not listening.

And by the way, the point of that microupdate? Hijiri is not listening. She's scared, she's not gonna listen to anything we say, and if we manage to catch her, she's gonna be more scared, and she will not listen at all.
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Eh. My point wasn't "we should try social anyway". That first phrase was more for flavor, I guess?
My point was "this is going to be really annoying no matter how we deal with it". Because, teenagers, pmmm, blah blah blah.

Maybe it's a defeatist attitude.
Me? I prefer to think of it as stoicism.
Onmur, I can only guess at the levels of frustration you feel after almost two years of periodically dealing with this shit. That goes for every veteran of the quest, btw. I've spent something like a month in the thread and I feel like flipping a bird to Hijiri already. Maybe making a giant Grief Mecha and level a couple of city blocks...
I know, I know, you probably want to say:"Doesn't matter if it's annoying, what matters is it doesn't work." I think it theoretically can work. For someone far smoother and more socially adept than me, that's for sure, but it can. I don't see how, so I don't propagate going on with talking to every unreasonable meguca and hoping that social works this time. I mean, I'd prefer that, but I also would like to fly and obtain a functional lightsaber. I think I can cope.
So, to highlight it again: SV tried social. It didn't work. Let's try it another way. Fine.
( P.S. Oh, Firn. If you're reading this for whatever reason, it is in no way a criticism of your work. This is the stuff dreams are made of. Just so you know. )
 
blast flame said:
Exile doesn't work for the kind of threat Hijiri potentially represents. She's almost as much a danger to the Pleiades if she's free and decides to go full revenge like she did in canon as if she wasn't exiled.

Exile doesn't stop someone from coming back into town and, say, blowing up your house while you sleep. It's a violation of the exile of course but what does it matter at that point?
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Right, but the "standard" escalation is death. Mami used it as a threat, though she never had to make good on it. The kind of leeway we're offering people like Hijiri or Oriko is fairly unprecedented, and can only occur because of the stupid-huge power disparity.

That said, we can't be everywhere at once. If Hijiri fucks off, how much time and attention are we going to spend in Asunaro trying to therapy at her long-distance, instead of using that time to deal with all the other people we could be helping?
 
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