You somehow think The Saffron Isles can punch through mass levy? These are not nomads. We would bleed them white and break their ability to supply armies in the field.
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
You somehow think The Saffron Isles can punch through mass levy? These are not nomads. We would bleed them white and break their ability to supply armies in the field.
- Location
- Canada
Looking back at what was happening then makes this loss a lot easier to take. Its been time for a consolidation phase for awhile now. Education law and infrastructure. Then we can think about expansion again.
Can we get more people voting for
[Diplo] None
Otherwise, those extra stats are going to REALLY hurt us.
[Diplo] None
Otherwise, those extra stats are going to REALLY hurt us.
More like warships to counter their super extended logistical lines. Hey, if Freehills really get their ass kicked, we might even once again have a chance to take Trelli.
Tetsurou
Communist Penguin
[X] [Parl] Cement Production Subsidies (Main Increase Cement Production, Patricians disapprove)
[X] [React] Farm (Sec Expand Econ)
[X] [React] Contact Freehills (Sec Diplomatic Mission)
[X] [React] Contact Harmurri (Sec Diplomatic Mission)
[X] [PSN] Main Expand Econ (-2 Centralization + Costs)
[X] [Lesson] The bindings between superiors and subordinates
[X] [Diplo] Gain a Diplo Hero (-15 Diplo)
[X] [React] Farm (Sec Expand Econ)
[X] [React] Contact Freehills (Sec Diplomatic Mission)
[X] [React] Contact Harmurri (Sec Diplomatic Mission)
[X] [PSN] Main Expand Econ (-2 Centralization + Costs)
[X] [Lesson] The bindings between superiors and subordinates
[X] [Culture] Begin Classical Law Megaproject in its own action track (-12 Culture)
[X] [Diplo] Gain a Diplo Hero (-15 Diplo)
[X] [Mystic] Begin Great Library Megaproject in its own action track (-12 Mysticism)
maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
Mate, iv been arguing for a sun king style monarchy for bloody ages, and the sun king did not antagonise his nobility and seek to destroy them.
He lavished ungodly luxury and honours on them as he slowly dismempowerd them, never touching the rights and privileges they held highest, whilst establishing an entire cultural epicentre that burned a third of annual revenues to keep them happy and swimming in status and prestige in his paradise of the nobility.
Absolutism was achieved by incorporating the aristocracy into the state apparatus, not by expunging it. And the sun king achieved it by spoiling the aristocracy into servitude, creating a high culture so extravagant and ritualised that it was simply unthinkable to refuse the king, him and his Lords became one.
For crying out loud the man was terrified of another noble rebellion like that of his youth, and worked tirelessly to ensure that he never appeared to be threating the institutions of aristocracy, even as he redefined them.
Ofcourse, the nobility has to fucking have lands in order for it to have the bloody necessary wealth to be spent in high culture. The thread ofcourse isn't interested in questions of how to deal with a landed elite, but how to exterminate the concept of land ownership itself.
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- Pronouns
- They/Them
It won't be that bad. The Guilds can take Support Artisan actions, which will be expensive but also hopefully provide artisan innovations for easier ways to raise tech.
Meanwhile we need a diplo hero to help with the several ongoing messes in our neighbors.
Ancient Scholar
Amateur Editor/Beta
- Location
- United States
Bad Touch! Bad Touch!
We have to reinforce our borders and push them off our shores. At least on the plus side if they do actually attack we can actually make them collapse indirectly with our traits due to how far away they are.
Some quick analysis of the tally:
[Diplo] is a very close vote. We really need the "Nothing" option though, since Boundary Passage will both cost a bunch of stats we'd prefer to keep and, more importantly, reduce our action count next turn (due to city formation, the Boundary Passage costs 2 econ and gives us 2 EE immediately)
[Culture] is also very close. I'd prefer Classical Law, but both options are reasonable.
edit: put the tally in a spoiler 'cause it's huge
[Diplo] is a very close vote. We really need the "Nothing" option though, since Boundary Passage will both cost a bunch of stats we'd prefer to keep and, more importantly, reduce our action count next turn (due to city formation, the Boundary Passage costs 2 econ and gives us 2 EE immediately)
[Culture] is also very close. I'd prefer Classical Law, but both options are reasonable.
Vote Tally : Original - Paths of Civilization | Page 5517 | Sufficient Velocity [Posts: 137928-138306]
##### NetTally 1.9.9
Task: Parl
[31][Parl] Cement Production Subsidies (Main Increase Cement Production, Patricians disapprove)
[12][Parl] Dryad Housing Act (Main Expand Forest, Priests +1 Faction Power, Yeoman approve, Patricians disapprove)
[5][Parl] Fair Land Allocation Act (Main Distribute Land, Patricians and Yeomen approve)
——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: Lesson
[25][Lesson] The importance of skilled commanders at all levels
[14][Lesson] The bindings between superiors and subordinates
[4][Lesson] The importance of maintaining training
[3][Lesson] The bonds between warriors
——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: Diplo
[17][Diplo] Nothing
[14][Diplo] Begin Boundary Passage Megaproject in its own action track (-12 Diplo)
[11][Diplo] Gain a Diplo Hero (-15 Diplo)
[5][Diplo] Boost all subordinate loyalty (-15 Diplo)
[3][Diplo] Gain a Diplo Genius (-20 Diplo)
[2][Diplo] Alter Subordinate Management (-10 Diplo, -1 Diplo per landed subordinate/turn)
[1][Diplo] Materials Tech (-12 Tech)
——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: Culture
[21][Culture] Gain a Cultural Hero (-15 Culture)
[21][Culture] Begin Classical Law Megaproject in its own action track (-12 Culture)
[14][Culture] Gain a Cultural Genius (-20 Culture)
[2][Culture] Nothing
[2][Culture] Upgrade a random value (-18 Culture)
——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: Mystic
[28][Mystic] Begin Great Library Megaproject in its own action track (-12 Mysticism)
[9][Mystic] Gain a new Spiritual Value slot (-15 Mysticism)
[3][Mystic] Gain a new trait slot for Mylathadysm (-12 Mysticism)
[3][Mystic] Nothing
——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: React
[38][React] Contact Harmurri (Sec Diplomatic Mission)
[31][React] Farm (Sec Expand Econ)
[25][React] Contact Freehills (Sec Diplomatic Mission)
[13][React] Celebrate (Sec Improve Annual Festival)
[6][React] Judge (Sec Enforce Justice)
[4][React] Exercise (Sec Build Gymnasium)
[3][React] Settle (Sec New Settlement - Internal Reorg)
[3][React] Praise the Gods (Sec Build Temple)
[2][React] Settle (Sec New Settlement - Internal Reorg) x2
[1][React] Promote Industry (Sec Support Artisans)
[1][React] Brag (Sec Salt Gift)
[1][React] Farm (Sec Expand Econ) x2
——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: PSN
[31][PSN] Main Expand Econ (-2 Centralization + Costs)
[4][PSN] Main Expand Forest (-2 Centralization + Costs)
[3][PSN] Main Plant Cash Crops - Textiles (-2 Centralization + Costs)
[3][PSN] Sec Expand Econ (-1 Centralization + Costs)
[1][PSN] Sec Expand Forest (-1 Centralization + Costs)
Total No. of Voters: 55
##### NetTally 1.9.9
Task: Parl
[31][Parl] Cement Production Subsidies (Main Increase Cement Production, Patricians disapprove)
[12][Parl] Dryad Housing Act (Main Expand Forest, Priests +1 Faction Power, Yeoman approve, Patricians disapprove)
[5][Parl] Fair Land Allocation Act (Main Distribute Land, Patricians and Yeomen approve)
——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: Lesson
[25][Lesson] The importance of skilled commanders at all levels
[14][Lesson] The bindings between superiors and subordinates
[4][Lesson] The importance of maintaining training
[3][Lesson] The bonds between warriors
——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: Diplo
[17][Diplo] Nothing
[14][Diplo] Begin Boundary Passage Megaproject in its own action track (-12 Diplo)
[11][Diplo] Gain a Diplo Hero (-15 Diplo)
[5][Diplo] Boost all subordinate loyalty (-15 Diplo)
[3][Diplo] Gain a Diplo Genius (-20 Diplo)
[2][Diplo] Alter Subordinate Management (-10 Diplo, -1 Diplo per landed subordinate/turn)
[1][Diplo] Materials Tech (-12 Tech)
——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: Culture
[21][Culture] Gain a Cultural Hero (-15 Culture)
[21][Culture] Begin Classical Law Megaproject in its own action track (-12 Culture)
[14][Culture] Gain a Cultural Genius (-20 Culture)
[2][Culture] Nothing
[2][Culture] Upgrade a random value (-18 Culture)
——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: Mystic
[28][Mystic] Begin Great Library Megaproject in its own action track (-12 Mysticism)
[9][Mystic] Gain a new Spiritual Value slot (-15 Mysticism)
[3][Mystic] Gain a new trait slot for Mylathadysm (-12 Mysticism)
[3][Mystic] Nothing
——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: React
[38][React] Contact Harmurri (Sec Diplomatic Mission)
[31][React] Farm (Sec Expand Econ)
[25][React] Contact Freehills (Sec Diplomatic Mission)
[13][React] Celebrate (Sec Improve Annual Festival)
[6][React] Judge (Sec Enforce Justice)
[4][React] Exercise (Sec Build Gymnasium)
[3][React] Settle (Sec New Settlement - Internal Reorg)
[3][React] Praise the Gods (Sec Build Temple)
[2][React] Settle (Sec New Settlement - Internal Reorg) x2
[1][React] Promote Industry (Sec Support Artisans)
[1][React] Brag (Sec Salt Gift)
[1][React] Farm (Sec Expand Econ) x2
——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: PSN
[31][PSN] Main Expand Econ (-2 Centralization + Costs)
[4][PSN] Main Expand Forest (-2 Centralization + Costs)
[3][PSN] Main Plant Cash Crops - Textiles (-2 Centralization + Costs)
[3][PSN] Sec Expand Econ (-1 Centralization + Costs)
[1][PSN] Sec Expand Forest (-1 Centralization + Costs)
Total No. of Voters: 55
We're going to be in serious trouble if the current vote wins, as we're going to be really low on stats for the actions we have to take for next turn.
He destroyed the nobility's ability to act by forcing them to play stupid games that only won them stupid prizes.
He destroyed them as a meaningful class of real actors. We can do something similar to the Patricians, without them needing land. They have favours we can make them put towards showing off instead.
He destroyed the nobility's ability to act by forcing them to play stupid games that only won them stupid prizes.
He destroyed them as a meaningful class of real actors. We can do something similar to the Patricians, without them needing land. They have favours we can make them put towards showing off instead.
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- Location
- United States
Out of curiosity, @Academia Nut , do we actually have the ability to have people owning property fit into our legal system?
Like, would we have to make laws about how land is inherited, or what can be done on the land, or what they are required to do with the land, etc?
And on a different note, would the Patricians be mollified if we just took a single DL, or would they only stop being spiteful if we finish their quest?
Like, would we have to make laws about how land is inherited, or what can be done on the land, or what they are required to do with the land, etc?
And on a different note, would the Patricians be mollified if we just took a single DL, or would they only stop being spiteful if we finish their quest?
Ancient Scholar
Amateur Editor/Beta
- Location
- United States
[x][Diplo] Nothing
[X][Culture] Gain a Cultural Hero (-15 Culture)
[X] [Mystic] Gain a new Spiritual Value slot (-15 Mysticism)
[X][Culture] Gain a Cultural Hero (-15 Culture)
[X] [Mystic] Gain a new Spiritual Value slot (-15 Mysticism)
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They will have Mercenary Companies fuelled by a Mediterraneans worth of slaves. They can probably supply numbers similar to our own as long as they have enough ships, our western colonies are easy pickings and their loss will weaken us immensely thanks to our traits.
This is going to be really fun. If we die our first death to them it will be a worthy one. As long as the forests and the warding survives I am happy.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I'm hoping to grab a Diplomatic hero, to help stabilize the Harmurri to the south and Freehills to the West, and perhaps even make contact with the Khemetri again or the Salt People or something.
Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
- Pronouns
- He/Him
@Academia Nut this is the last phase of the turn, right? So the current refunds on the civ sheet will come in alongside the actions we're voting on right now, correct?
- Location
- Canada
The wealth accumulation would create envy which would spur a push for further distribution and laws to solidify right to that land as nobles.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] [Lesson] The bonds between warriors
[X] [Parl] Cement Production Subsidies (Main Increase Cement Production, Patricians disapprove)
[X] [React] Farm (Sec Expand Econ)
[X] [React] Contact Freehills (Sec Diplomatic Mission)
[X] [React] Contact Harmurri (Sec Diplomatic Mission)
[X] [PSN] Main Expand Econ (-2 Centralization + Costs)
[X] [Diplo] Nothing
[X] [Culture] Gain a Cultural Hero (-15 Culture)
[X] [Mystic] Gain a new Spiritual Value slot (-15 Mysticism)
Dropping approval votes now that I've seen how the tally is going.
No love for Symphony? Aren't the communal principles from that how we fight against Distribute Land? And Arete evolution could increase costs further...
E:
Approval vote:
[X] [Diplo] Boost all subordinate loyalty (-15 Diplo)
[X] [Parl] Cement Production Subsidies (Main Increase Cement Production, Patricians disapprove)
[X] [React] Farm (Sec Expand Econ)
[X] [React] Contact Freehills (Sec Diplomatic Mission)
[X] [React] Contact Harmurri (Sec Diplomatic Mission)
[X] [PSN] Main Expand Econ (-2 Centralization + Costs)
[X] [Diplo] Nothing
[X] [Culture] Gain a Cultural Hero (-15 Culture)
[X] [Mystic] Gain a new Spiritual Value slot (-15 Mysticism)
Dropping approval votes now that I've seen how the tally is going.
No love for Symphony? Aren't the communal principles from that how we fight against Distribute Land? And Arete evolution could increase costs further...
E:
Approval vote:
[X] [Diplo] Boost all subordinate loyalty (-15 Diplo)
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It won't be a worthy loss. It will be due to us being negligent when we had he chance to get on top of this.
It will be embarrassing to die from this. From a fixation on investing east when we could have locked down the Yllthon Sea.
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- Pronouns
- They/Them
The only way they can get to those colonies is by punching through Freehills, themselves an ascendant Great Power. And we can stop that by backing up Freehills with mercenaries and our own warriors if need be.
I hope they haven't already wiped out the Khemetri, though. That would be sad.
@Academia Nut is that heroic general Freehills had still around?
Mass levy isn't unique to our civilization. The SI have the entire Mediterranean, which probably means that they have larger econ, wealth, and martial caps than we do. They are also a maritime power, so (if they take Trelli) they can put these levies anywhere in the Not!Black Sea.
We need to ensure that Free Hills keeps its Northern Anatolian provinces unless we want to have an extremely unpleasant time.
maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
He didn't destroy them, they remained the supreme political force (and to an extent, economical) of France throughout the ancien regime.
What he did was demilitarise them. That was what he was terrified of, that was what absolutism was about : removing the military powers of the nobility.
The political powers where untouched, hell the monarchs of Europe held it near sacrosanct that the Lords of the land hold high stations, and even the so called commoners that become a feature of absolutist administrations, where all either lower nobility or ennobled or even landed upon confirmation, hence thier common designation as nobility of the robe.
The idea of disempowring the nobility politically or economically would have been silly, the kings them selves are a product and part of the aristocratic structure, why would they remove the very system that grants them Legitimacy?
As for the games, they where neither stupid, nor where the prizes stupid money, governorship, generalships, positions, Patronage, connections where routinely handed out in the intricacies of the sun court. The court itself was highly elaborate and ritualised, with every action and object being rich in metaphor, symbolism and hidden meaning.
To be part of the court was to have status an prestige, which were worth more than gold to any aspiring ladder climber, not to mention that being part of the court automatically made you one of the movers and shakers of the realm.
I repeat, absolutism was about changing the function and role of the nobility, from warlords to demilitarised landlords. It was never about political disempowerment. Not directly at any rate.
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