Paths of Civilization

HeWhoAdds · Nov 24, 2017

8bitBob said:
Wait yeah, I'm confused. Why are we going for a Gymnasium exactly?

It's cheap. No Econ cost, and minimal wealth (at least compared to Mills)

Bladesguy · Nov 24, 2017

Whew, it's been a while since I have been here. I see everything is still on fire, yet we still live. Sweet! Let's see if we can survive just a bit longer shall we?

[X] BungieONI

Looking at the plans floating around right now, I think I will throw my hat in with BungieONI. Normally I would just copy the actions I like from any given plan and edit in my own, but our interests seem to align pretty well this time around. Use my vote wisely now.

8bitBob said:
Would appreciate any Marriage option analysis from peeps.

As for my thoughts on the marriage options, I don't really think there is a bad choice here.

Patricians: Likely helps our stability
Storym Ymaryn: Secures us an alliance (EDIT: Okay this might get us dragged into a war. While securing an alliance is nice, we should probably keep that in mind.)
Forhuch: Likely helps with securing their loyalty

Personally I am leaning towards securing an alliance but I can see the value in taking any of them.

Sivantic · Nov 24, 2017

Citino said:
Damn, looks like the HK conquest is, once again, not possible.

Still, with the northern part of the lowlands fully secured, and the King confident he can restore the status quo in the southern lowlands by saving the Harmurri, we will still be in a better position after the war ends then we were in the beginning. This also lets us focus on the dam and canal, so that the next time the HK attack, they will be facing a far more mobile and well supplied force.

I currently have a plan that allows to do so.

Heck, if people do not think Txolla is necessary I can even add in a secondary War Mission for more synergy and a secondary enforce justice to top up Stability.

soulcake · Nov 24, 2017

BungieONI said:
[X] [Marriage] From the Storm Ymaryn to gain an alliance

Before we do that, let's confirm that we aren't going to get pulled into another war by doing so. And you know, not accidentally incorporate some less than wholesome ideas about slavery

Totally go for the Forhuch match though

Andres · Nov 24, 2017

8bitBob said:
Wait yeah, I'm confused. Why are we going for a Gymnasium exactly?

Because BungieONI is voting for it. There is no other reason. No reason has been stated, even by BungieONI. It is a bad choice of action being repeated because of the bandwagon effect.

DkArthas · Nov 24, 2017

[X] Sivantic

DakkaMania · Nov 24, 2017

I'm so bloody disappointed that the Highlander will get away with their crap yet again.

I bloody well hope they fracture when we kick them out of the lowlands.

@BungieONI

Doesn't Alyx need regular Offensive Policy to persecute the war against the HK?

Malevolo · Nov 24, 2017

[] [Marriage] Internally from a patrician family
This option will probably create a royal line within the Patricians where anyone that can say they descend directly from Alyx - the avatar of war - are legitimate to take the King throne because they descend directly from a god, so meh.

[] [Marriage] From the Storm Ymaryn to gain an alliance
The option as the Patricians option, except that this get us into a personal union with the Storm Ymaryn, and that each new king will have to marry a Storm Ymaryn to keep the alliance alive, so making again that royal line thing, so meh again.

[] [Marriage] From one of the Forhuch tribes to secure their loyalty
In this one Alyx will probably marry a Forhuch princess, probably some of Forthamin sisters or daughters, making the relations really close between the core and the march, but again we hit the conundrum that as they are essentialy nomads, a son of Alyx with a Forhuch princess will actually create someone bent on military conquest as a way of family advancement, and don't get me even started in the clusterfuck that will happen on the capital...

Citino · Nov 24, 2017

[X] [Main] Great Dam
[X] [Secondary] Annex - Great Hall
[X] [Secondary] Integrate Colony - Txolla
[X] [Secondary] Integrate Colony - Txolla x2
[X] [Secondary] Restore Order
[X] [Secondary] Restore Order x2
[X] [Secondary] Survey Land
[X] [Guild] Build Mills
[X] [Guild] Build Mills x2
[X] [Guild Secondary] Build Mills

[X] [Marriage] From the Storm Ymaryn to gain an alliance

Andres · Nov 24, 2017

Malevolo said:
[] [Marriage] From the Storm Ymaryn to gain an alliance
The option as the Patricians option, except that this get us into a personal union with the Storm Ymaryn, and that each new king will have to marry a Storm Ymaryn to keep the alliance alive, so making again that royal line thing, so meh again.

It'll also force us into more wars as the Storym Ymaryn are assholes, war-hungry, intent on conquest, and would want to make use of us and Alyx. We will likely have to fight Freehills, who have been old friends of ours.

OliWhail · Nov 24, 2017

Somebodynobody10 said:
@Academia Nut

Weren't we in a gilded age? Why don't we have anything to pick as bonuses for it?

He stated it would happen at a later point.

VoidZero said:
X] [Guild] Build Mills
[X] [Guild] Build Mills

You're gonna want a x2 on that second one

ScreenWatcher said:
X] [Marriage] From the Storm Ymaryn to gain an alliance

Beware: this may get us dragged into their current war.

Bladesguy said:
Storym Ymaryn: Secures us an alliance

...and also might get us dragged into another war.

Raichu1972 · Nov 24, 2017

Andres110 said:
Because BungieONI is voting for it. There is no other reason. No reason has been stated, even by BungieONI. It is a bad choice of action being repeated because of the bandwagon effect.

It doesn't cost econ, and we currently have no econ to spare.

It also doesn't cost wealth, or at least not as much as Mills do.

I would also appreciate it if you just ask people why they are choosing the actions they do, instead of just assuming there is no reason.

BungieONI · Nov 24, 2017

OliWhail said:
I dunno if you explained elsewhere but why not go all-in on mills? We've talked a lot about how we need rapid advances in mechanization to deal with the lack of forced labor, and this seems like an excellent chance to actually take steps in that direction.

Because the Econ they give, will overflow into Expansion in drips of +4. Basically our refund for this specific phase is high enough to convert all the overflow the Mills would give into the Expansion and make it harder to hold onto cities.

Hey Guys who have donated their vote to me I need to think about the marriage vote a bit so I am going to be removing those right now and coming back to them. Please let me know what you think.

[X] [Main] Restore Order
[X] [Secondary] Switch Policy - Megaproject Support
[X] [Secondary] Palace Annex - Grand Hall
[X] [Secondary] War Mission - Highlanders
[X] [Secondary] War Mission - Highlanders x2
[X] [Secondary] Integrate Colony - Txolla
[X] [Secondary] Enforce Justice
[X] [Guild] Build Mills
[X] [Guild] Build Gymnasium
[X] [Guild Secondary] Survey Lands

[] [Marriage] From one of the Forhuch tribes to secure their loyalty
[] [Marriage] From the Storm Ymaryn to gain an alliance

Redium · Nov 24, 2017

[X] [Main] Restore Order
[X] [Secondary] Switch Policy - Offense
[X] [Secondary] Palace Annex - Grand Hall
[X] [Secondary] War Mission - Highlanders
[X] [Secondary] Dam
[X] [Secondary] Dam x2
[X] [Secondary] Enforce Justice
[X] [Guild] Build Mills
[X] [Guild] Build Mills x2
[X] [Guild Secondary] Survey Lands

[X] [Marriage] From one of the Forhuch tribes to secure their loyalty

We need Stab without Stat costs so we're basically locked into taking Restore Order and Enforce Justice. A [M] RO and {S} EJ is the optimal combination of the two for gaining Stab.

The reason I want to go on Offense instead of Megaproject Support is because this allows us to recover Econ through overflow instead of some weird contortion that Megaproject Support would have. Instead of @BungieONI 's plan where we destroy an immense amount of EE for no real reason, I'm banking on Overflow giving us +18 Econ for Mid-Turn and us being able to [React] or [PSN] Expand Econ as well. AN's said that we'll have the option back so it's extremely likely to be available to us in one of those forms. As long as we do it once, we'll be below the threshold and get to keep all of our Free Cities. It also makes it substantially easier to do the Urban Poor quest. With Bungie's plan, if you want the extra Value Slot, forget it.

War Mission - Highlanders is on there in order to active Symphony with our Province's War Missions.

Build Mills because we need the Econ and because it will hopefully give us a narrative evolution, especially with the Dam. We know the Dam will be a major source of hydro power so we should build something for non-linear effects to take advantage of it.

Survey Lands is on there because it doesn't cost Econ.

I don't want to give the SY access to our King. There's really no reason to take the risk of them trying something underhanded, having his wife seduce him, or potentially leaving him vulnerable to assassination.

Tetsurou · Nov 24, 2017

[X] [Main] War Mission - Highlanders
[X] [Secondary] Change Policy - Megaproject Support
[X] [Secondary] Palace Annex - Grand Hall
[X] [Secondary] Restore Order
[X] [Secondary] Restore Order x2
[X] [Secondary] War Mission - Highlanders
[X] [Secondary] War Mission - Highlanders x2

[X] [Guild] Build Mills
[X] [Guild] Build Mills x2
[X] [Guild Secondary] Build Mills

[X] [Marriage] From the Storm Ymaryn to gain an alliance

Sivantic · Nov 24, 2017

DakkaMania said:
I'm so bloody disappointed that the Highlander will get away with their crap yet again.

I bloody well hope they fracture when we kick them out of the lowlands.

@BungieONI

Doesn't Alyx need regular Offensive Policy to persecute the war against the HK?

Still possible!

Sivantic said:
Right then

[X] [Main] Great Dam
[X] [Secondary] Annex - Great Hall
[X] [Secondary] Integrate Colony - Txolla
[X] [Secondary] Integrate Colony - Txolla x2
[X] [Secondary] Restore Order
[X] [Secondary] Restore Order x2
[X] [Secondary] Survey Land
[X] [Guild] Build Mills
[X] [Guild] Build Mills x2
[X] [Guild Secondary] Build Mills

Stats
Economy 4/27 (+7) [+5-0]
Wealth 25/25 [+8]

Dam costs 2 Wealth and Economy

Economy 2
Wealth 23

Annex costs 2 Econ

Economy 0
Wealth 23

Restore Order, Survey, nor Integration costs econ or wealth

Mills though,

Economy 11
Wealth 1

Then our income cashes in

Economy 22
Wealth 9

This is an expensive plan yes, but it gives us all the econ we need while still leaving us on Levies to defeat the Highlanders.

It is possible.

We have 4 Econ right now.

I have planned out a way to avoid starving and stay on the Levies we need to stop them.

Andres · Nov 24, 2017

Raichu1972 said:
It doesn't cost econ, and we currently have no econ to spare.

It also doesn't cost wealth, or at least not as much as Mills do.

I would also appreciate it if you just ask people why they are choosing the actions they do, instead of just assuming there is no reason.

I have asked for the reason why Build Gymnasium was being done and I got no response.

VoidZero · Nov 24, 2017

Citino said:
[X] [Main] Great Dam
[X] [Secondary] Annex - Great Hall
[X] [Secondary] Integrate Colony - Txolla
[X] [Secondary] Integrate Colony - Txolla x2
[X] [Secondary] Restore Order
[X] [Secondary] Restore Order x2
[X] [Secondary] Survey Land
[X] [Guild] Build Mills
[X] [Guild] Build Mills x2
[X] [Guild Secondary] Build Mills

[X] [Marriage] From the Storm Ymaryn to gain an alliance

Keeping mass levy but no war? Or forgot to change policy? (No war plz)

Glassware · Nov 24, 2017

BungieONI said:
Because the Econ they give, will overflow into Expansion in drips of +4. Basically our refund for this specific phase is high enough to convert all the overflow the Mills would give into the Expansion and make it harder to hold onto cities.

You've yet to provide a satisfactory explanation for why we need to integrate Txolla this turn, when it will ensure we fail the Urban Poor quest by giving us something like 30 LTE.

BungieONI · Nov 24, 2017

Sivantic said:
Still possible!

I have planned out a way to avoid starving and stay on the Levies we need to stop them.

Granted you fail the Urban Poor quest really really hard and I want that social slot but Mneh its not a huge issue.

HeWhoAdds · Nov 24, 2017

BungieONI said:
@HeWhoAdds
We spend 4 Econ(2 from Annex, 2 from Dam) We don't starve. We spend 16 wealth. We have -4 Expansion income right now, and if the provinces take 5 Expand Econs that's +30 Economy and -27 Expansion(it would be 30, but the overflow of Econ by 3 into wealth gives back 3 Expansion). Since income is before expenses we go down to 3 Expansion for a brief moment. Mills comes into play and we get to 7 Expansion. Expansion refunds from the Annex and Dam come into play and we get to 11 Expansion. Then the Txollan integration goes into play(If I take it as a Main) and we gain 20 Expansion and 13 Econ, of which 4 is gained as Expansion for a net of 24 so we end at 35 Expansion in the mid turn.

Well shucks. Gonna drop Txolla to secondary then. If I do that we end up at 11 Expansion the next phase and keep most of our cities. We then have to take another Expand Econ Main PSN to drop us to around 23 Expansion in the next main turn.

I really appreciate the clarification!

OliWhail · Nov 24, 2017

Citino said:
[X] [Main] Great Dam
[X] [Secondary] Annex - Great Hall
[X] [Secondary] Integrate Colony - Txolla
[X] [Secondary] Integrate Colony - Txolla x2
[X] [Secondary] Restore Order
[X] [Secondary] Restore Order x2
[X] [Secondary] Survey Land
[X] [Guild] Build Mills
[X] [Guild] Build Mills x2
[X] [Guild Secondary] Build Mills

[X] [Marriage] From the Storm Ymaryn to gain an alliance

Huh, this looks appealing, does the math all check out? And why 2x integration - do we need them integrated by midturn more than we need extra Econ?

DakkaMania · Nov 24, 2017

Malevolo said:
[] [Marriage] Internally from a patrician family
This option will probably create a royal line within the Patricians where anyone that can say they descend directly from Alyx - the avatar of war - are legitimate to take the King throne because they descend directly from a god, so meh.

[] [Marriage] From one of the Forhuch tribes to secure their loyalty
In this one Alyx will probably marry a Forhuch princess, probably some of Forthamin sisters or daughters, making the relations really close between the core and the march, but again we hit the conundrum that as they are essentialy nomads, a son of Alyx with a Forhuch princess will actually create someone bent on military conquest as a way of family advancement, and don't get me even started in the clusterfuck that will happen on the capital...

Not necessarily true for all of those.

Patricians may just be keep going as is.

Forhuch may mean that Kings marry vassals to keep them happy.

Somebodynobody10 · Nov 24, 2017

[X] [Marriage] From one of the Forhuch tribes to secure their loyalty

I can't believe people are trying to YOLO with megaproject support and one Main War Mission to beat the Highlanders.

DakkaMania · Nov 24, 2017

[X] [Main] Great Dam
[X] [Secondary] Annex - Great Hall
[X] [Secondary] Integrate Colony - Txolla
[X] [Secondary] Integrate Colony - Txolla x2
[X] [Secondary] Restore Order
[X] [Secondary] Restore Order x2
[X] [Secondary] Survey Land
[X] [Guild] Build Mills
[X] [Guild] Build Mills x2
[X] [Guild Secondary] Build Mills

Paths of Civilization

CAPITAL IS TO BLAME

Seven gremlins in a trench coat

Communist Penguin

Passing Flan 布丁魔王

Seven gremlins in a trench coat