Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

AuraTwilight · Nov 22, 2017

Onmur said:
Hell no, Yuuri's still a Witchbomb threat, and needs de-gemming. We're not leaving the Pleiades with both that and with Hijiri hanging around with them.

We're also the one with meguca radar to prevent ambushes, and we've got ways to make the hunting go faster.

Trust Homura to receive the Shiagama girls for us, like we agreed.

If we want to get back before 10 AM, it should be by hurrying up and finishing this.

[ ] Thank Kazumi, but Airi's dangerous.
-[ ] She has dangerous information. Propose disconnecting/de-gemming ASAP.
--[ ] Mention the difficulty with actually solving her psychological problems.

[ ] Hunting. Ideas:
-[ ] Use Grief detectors in conjunction with Mami's ribbons to search the whole city from here.
--[Q] Blush
-[ ] Sayaka, more clones? Kazumi's, Chibis?
-[ ] Mention the Grief Magic Booster.
-[ ] Encourage others to propose ideas.
-[ ] Maybe draw out Yuuri?
-[ ] Maybe Hijiri's could help (hunting /drawing out Yuuri)?

[ ] Hijiri:
-[ ] Talk with her and everyone about her future release. Encourage cooperation.
-[ ] Non accusatory, privately: Address Yuuri's allegation that she's behind all this.
--[ ] Something doesn't add up. If she's holding anything back, it'll be better if she says it now. Offer support.
--[ ] Yuuri needs help. Ask Hijiri to help search and stop her.

[ ] Mami, Kazumi:
-[ ] Share the details about your talks with Hijiri and Airi.

...Fuck you're right. Sayaclone is at school too. We should just call Nadia and tell her something came up and to wait for us, or something.

Or fuck maybe she can come meet us in Asunaro.

The Narrator said:
If the energy were just being released into the wild, then it wouldn't do anything to help with entropy anyway. The whole point of heat-death is that the universe is running out of useful sources of energy. If other words, there's only so much fuel in the universe, and once it's been burned it can't be unburned. For the Incubators' plan to make any sense at all, they would have to be mining new fuel sources (presumably grief or Grief Seeds), not just causing random bursts of energy into the void. In other words, they're drilling for oil, not starting forest fires.

It still makes zero sense for there to be witches that don't have Grief Seeds, but I suspect the simple explanation is that it's a badly-made manga by a hack writer who wasn't paying attention and didn't think about what they were writing.

The Witch that didn't drop a seed was the Soujous', right? I think the writer was going with the interpretation that fusion-witches don't drop a Seed, since it doesn't look like Night of Hyades does either and, working off just the original anime it's a reasonable interpretation to think Walpurgis doesn't either.

Kkutlord · Nov 22, 2017

Demosthenes said:
given the insanity that Anri seems to be displaying and the damage she is capable of (and has already caused) shouldn't we want her to fear us? to some extent at least?

Being a little afraid and deciding listening to Sabrina would work, but being afraid Sabrina could kill her at any moment? That's the kind of fear that produces nothing but resentment & hatred, behaving not of genuine intent but self-preservation. Anri would just spend her time plotting to either kill Sabrina first, or ensuring Sabrina couldn't find her / get in range.

Demosthenes · Nov 22, 2017

Kkutlord said:
Being a little afraid and deciding listening to Sabrina would work, but being afraid Sabrina could kill her at any moment? That's the kind of fear that produces nothing but resentment & hatred, behaving not of genuine intent but self-preservation. Anri would just spend her time plotting to either kill Sabrina first, or ensuring Sabrina couldn't find her / get in range.

isn't that what she's doing already?

Onmur · Nov 22, 2017

AuraTwilight said:
The Witch that didn't drop a seed was the Soujous', right? I think the writer was going with the interpretation that fusion-witches don't drop a Seed, since it doesn't look like Night of Hyades does either and, working off just the original anime it's a reasonable interpretation to think Walpurgis doesn't either.

There were also some other Witches that were hatched... by Mirai's magic somehow... after she was dead... who were killed by Kazumi, but either those also didn't drop Seeds, or the writers totally forgot about them.

SilverRune · Nov 22, 2017

dredloki said:
the thing with them trying to stop heat death is that like......its not comeing for a LONG while? like a couple billion/gillion/some kind of other ilion years?

That's long from a human perspective, just like a year would be long in the eyes of a mayfly. But if someone said the heat death would be next year, well, I think some people would be panicking.

dredloki said:
lies of omission are still lies.

Pretty sure lies and lies of omission are both deceptions, but lies of omission despite being called lies are not technically lies. (Could be wrong here, since I didn't look it up.)
From a human perspective there might not be a big difference, but Kyuubey, as an alien, may have a different view.

BlackoutSampler · Nov 22, 2017

Vebyast said:
We need to get Niko to realize/admit out loud that Hijiri needs a peaceful life and that peaceful lives other than the one Niko dictated are totally possible. Right now Niko is repeatedly shooting herself in the foot.

Now to be fair, we all know how much of a terrible shot Niko is. Shooting herself in the foot is probably the best we can hope for.

Demosthenes · Nov 22, 2017

BlackoutSampler said:
Now to be fair, we all know how much of a terrible shot Niko is. Shooting herself in the foot is probably the best we can hope for.

Shots fired!

SaltyWaffles · Nov 22, 2017

Guilop said:
At this rate Anri will witch herself out before we get to her. I really hope she remembers that she has a clear seed now.

Her talk about Hijiri teaching her, makes me doubt that Hijiri told us the truth or at least not the full truth.

Yeah, the part about Hijiri teaching her strongly conflicts with Hijiri's version of events. She has some serious explaining to do.

Aside from that...we need to offer Hijiri a place in Mitakihara. We need to explain to her that life as a solitary MG is harsh, unforgiving, and often short. We also won't let her keep the memory device--way too much potential for unethical abuse, and it's not healthy to live entirely alone and without even human contact. Other magical girls would rightfully consider Hijiri using the memory device to hunt witches in other girls' territory to be poaching, and Hijiri doesn't just have the right to do that whenever she pleases. There's also no guarantee that other teams she finds will take her in, either. We can at least offer her the greatest freedom--she won't have to hunt if she really doesn't want to, we can financially support her, provide her housing, and even arrange for her to attend school again if she wants to.

Kkutlord · Nov 22, 2017

Anri isn't yet aware that Sabrina is all kinds of unfairness, so even if Hijiri elaborated about Sabrina's powers gem snatching/detonation would be mere conjecture. Besides, if Anri somehow already knew that, it wouldn't be too strange for her to make the leap Sabrina could restore Witches even partially- Yet she never asked if Sabrina could do such a feat.

Regarding Niko, perhaps Sabrina could try pointing out to Hijiri that Niko might view herself as the fake? For one thing, Niko let Hijiri have her old life (including her very name) and there's the meaning of Niko's name which can mean Second Child. Rather bizarre for someone who Hijiri thinks is a callous creator.

Random832 · Nov 22, 2017

SilverRune said:
That's long from a human perspective, just like a year would be long in the eyes of a mayfly. But if someone said the heat death would be next year, well, I think some people would be panicking.

It's long compared to the age of the universe (which is something like 15 billion years). No intelligence can possibly have been around long enough to have such a perspective.

Frankly, it's arrogant to assume that they (having evolved from nothing in a tiny fraction of the time) will still be around and still have the same values by then.

Onmur · Nov 22, 2017

Kkutlord said:
there's the meaning of Niko's name which can mean Second Child.

Or 'Two Girls'.

I'll take the moment to remind everyone how fucked up the Niko-Hijiri situation is.

From my re-read of PMKM (RIP sanity. Thankfully not RIP pants), Hijiri was a defense mechanism Niko made up to deal with the guilt of killing the two other kids (with a helpful hand of Diabolus Ex Machina).

Niko's guilt made her refuse the chance to have fun, or be happy; instead, she made up a second version her who would have all the fun and happiness, a version her without the traumatic event.

So Niko would go through life pretending there was another her who had all the fun, and that made everything OK because then someone was happy!

That's all Hijiri was, a fucked up defense mechanism that was completely under control of Niko's mind, like an imaginary symbiotic invisible friend.

Then KB came around and Hijiri was made into a real girl. Turns out real girls don't like having their lives controlled and scrutinized and spied upon, or having someone else live vicariously through them.

JarringToaster · Nov 22, 2017

Keep in mind that even if you're advocating that Hijiri ups and gets a new life, there's still the case of her parents. Considering both Niko and Hijiri have the habit of making spontaneous life changing decisions without thinking of the long term consequences, you're going to want to make sure that this is what the latter really wants, and not just a poorly thought out attempt of rebellion by throwing away everything in life she had, including the good things.

SilverRune · Nov 22, 2017

Random832 said:
It's long compared to the age of the universe (which is something like 15 billion years). No intelligence can possibly have been around long enough to have such a perspective.

That only makes it unusual for them to have that time perception not impossible.

Frankly, it's arrogant to assume that they (having evolved from nothing in a tiny fraction of the time) will still be around and still have the same values by then.

Humans alone plan plenty of things they may change their opinions or values on before completing them. You may, for example, plan to have children in a decade and start to make preparations, despite knowing you might change your opinion.
The still be around is a bit different, but quite frankly humans would always plan for the survival of their own species, despite how unlikely it might be and we really don't know how likely the incubators would be to survive that long.

Demosthenes · Nov 22, 2017

SilverRune said:
That only makes it unusual for them to have that time perception not impossible.

Humans alone plan plenty of things they may change their opinions or values on before completing them. You may, for example, plan to have children in a decade and start to make preparations, despite knowing you might change your opinion.
The still be around is a bit different, but quite frankly humans would always plan for the survival of their own species, despite how unlikely it might be and we really don't know how likely the incubators would be to survive that long.

the only way that they could have that perspective is if they predated the beginning of the universe.

SilverRune · Nov 22, 2017

Demosthenes said:
the only way that they could have that perspective is if they predated the beginning of the universe.

How is your perception of time irrevocably related with the time you or your species existed? Those things aren't necessarily related at all.
A species isn't forced to see the time they needed to evolve or the time they already existed as a long time. They could without trouble perceive that time as a really short time.

Demosthenes · Nov 22, 2017

SilverRune said:
How is your perception of time irrevocably related with the time you or your species existed? Those things aren't necessarily related at all.
A species isn't forced to see the time they needed to evolve or the time they already existed as a long time. They could without trouble perceive that time as a really short time.

Then their perception is flawed. The universe doesn't have the kind of time needed for anyone to perceive that amount of time. The universe is old now. The theoretical heat-death is over centuple times the universe's age.

blast flame · Nov 22, 2017

Demosthenes said:
no I don't, I'm a little bit slow today: enlighten me?

Basically I'm not arguing in favor of letting things go to shit. I'm just saying that we can afford to step away for a moment and if things do go awry then we can salvage the situation.

DschingisKhan · Nov 22, 2017

ITT: Sabrina can feel the cosmos!

SilverRune · Nov 22, 2017

Demosthenes said:
Then their perception is flawed. The universe doesn't have the kind of time needed for anyone to perceive that amount of time. The universe is old now. The theoretical heat-death is over centuple times the universe's age.

I don't see how this kind of time perception would be a flaw for a species whose individual members may live for as long as they are not killed.

Honestly we just don't know enough about Kyuubey's species to say it lies about its goals, because "they can't possible be interested in stopping something that is so far in the future". Maybe it even sees the heat death to be away a really long time, but still plans to stop it for the good of its offspring? Maybe they just don't want to wait until they start running out of time so if something goes wrong with their plan they still have the required (unknown to them) amount of years (millions, billions, ...) necessary to find a solution?

Disbelieving Kyuubey when it says what its goals are, because its goals don't make sense seen from a human mindset isn't going to be very productive since it clearly has an alien mentality. If we want to know more about Kyuubey we would have to investigate it by asking it questions and/or other methods.

Thinking about it using magic to get some insight into Kyuubey and its mentality could be really helpful.

Redshirt Army · Nov 22, 2017

For the purposes of PMAS, QB has stated that it is gathering energy to oppose entropy and heat death, and Firnagzen has confirmed that it does not lie.

So, all this speculation is rather pointless.

defenestrator · Nov 22, 2017

And it would be better if it was discussed after voting.

Which opened 6 hours ago btw.

[X] Onmur

Demosthenes · Nov 22, 2017

SilverRune said:
I don't see how this kind of time perception would be a flaw for a species whose individual members may live for as long as they are not killed.

Honestly we just don't know enough about Kyuubey's species to say it lies about its goals, because "they can't possible be interested in stopping something that is so far in the future". Maybe it even sees the heat death to be away a really long time, but still plans to stop it for the good of its offspring? Maybe they just don't want to wait until they start running out of time so if something goes wrong with their plan they still have the required (unknown to them) amount of years (millions, billions, ...) necessary to find a solution?

Disbelieving Kyuubey when it says what its goals are, because its goals don't make sense seen from a human mindset isn't going to be very productive since it clearly has an alien mentality. If we want to know more about Kyuubey we would have to investigate it by asking it questions and/or other methods.

Thinking about it using magic to get some insight into Kyuubey and its mentality could be really helpful.

We're not disbelieving Kyuubey because it's goals don't make sense, we're just maintaining healthy skepticism.

[X] Onmur

Raiseth · Nov 22, 2017

Firnagzen said:
Hijiri Kanna, the mad, vengeful clone out for her wishborne creators' blood: Niko. Perhaps the most obvious motivation for an attack and a raid, but Niko hadn't been hurt at all. And then there's the other mad, vengeful clone, Asuka Yuuri, formerly Anri Airi.

See the pattern? It spells out: "Asunaro is weird."

Firnagzen said:
"That's stupid," Sayaka says.

Blueberry speaks the holy gospel. Girls in Asunaro made approximately as much sense as spontaneous planetary implosion via farts.
Polishing the Gems.
Stealing others' Souls because they look "shiny".
Planning to take over the world and kill all humans, replacing them by artificial creations of your design.
... Attacks were cool, though.

Firnagzen said:
"Everyone, this is Kure Kirika and Kure Oriko, formerly Mikuni.

Sabrina the Troll. With the Capital "T".

Firnagzen said:
You can also practically feel the heat from the twin beacons ignited once more behind you.

Hey, it's not like they're denying it.

Firnagzen said:
"Yes, she is," Niko says, expression slipping for a second. "Minus a few things."

Hahaha, I see it's setting up magnificently. Cloning Blues? More like Cloning Death Metal.
Huh, now that I remember, there is one teenage girl who treated her... let's say, clone, quite similarly. Unfortunately, spoilers.

Firnagzen said:
Once upon a never, she hid the fact that she was Grief spiralling from her friends. And she hid it so successfully that no one noticed until she Witched out.

We should bring her with us and Homumom, if we ever get around that trip to Vegas.

Firnagzen said:
The lack of pre-prepared vote options is intentional.

You evil man. :lol

Firnagzen said:
"Like hell you get to attack us and just go!" Saki snaps, fists clenched.

Still as vindictive as your alternate selves, I see. Well, all the Pleiade girls had some shitty lives before
becoming megucas, so there is some slack to be cut, so to speak.

Firnagzen said:
It'd be a ridiculous coincidence if it were Yuuri's Grief Seed, really.

Wait, wait, wait. Maybe that's what she was looking for. Need more info.

Firnagzen said:
"Told you so," Hijiri says from the front of the group, her voice echoing oddly in the stairwell. "She's batshit insane."

That was cold, Miss Clone. Stone cold.
Now that I think of it, was QB trying to derail Sabrina that time yesterday, when he wanted to introduce her to invisible masterguca?

Finished. Caught up.
680k words.
Maybe a twentieth of the entire forum thread besides that.
A lot of omakes.
... I will wait until the next update before starting to contribute. Too much meguca between two ears, need a detox.
Good luck, everyone!
Later.

Onmur · Nov 22, 2017

Haven't voted yet, but for visibility, this is what I've vote crafted so far. Kind of waiting for other people to votecraft, too.

Onmur said:
[ ] Hijiri, privately (multiasking, as soon as Niko's done with her):
-[ ] Paint a mental picture: Airi is in heavy denial, and lashing out. She needs help.
-[ ] Non accusatory: Address Airi's allegation that Hijiri's behind all this.
--[ ] Something doesn't add up. If she's holding anything back, it'll be better if she says it now. Offer support.
-[ ] Ask Hijiri if she can help track down Airi.

[ ] Thank Kazumi, but refuse. Airi has dangerous information.
-[ ] Hug Mami.
-[ ] Propose de-gemming Airi ASAP. Dealing with her psychological problems will take very long.

[ ] Everyone:
-[ ] Talk about Hijiri's future release; conditions. Encourage cooperation.
[ ] Encourage everyone to propose ideas to speed up the search.
-[ ] Ribbon range extension with sensing booster (which others should copy)?
-[ ] Sayaka, more clones? Kazumi, Chibis?
-[ ] Mention the Grief Magic Booster.
-[ ] Maybe draw out Yuuri?
-[ ] Perhaps Hijiri's could help (hunting /drawing out Yuuri).

[ ] Mami, Kazumi:
-[ ] Share the non-private details about your talks with Hijiri and Airi.

@Firnagzen, what time is it, in-quest?

The ideas here are:

As soon as Niko and Hijiri are done talking, privately telepathy Hijiri: Talk about Yuuri's problems (and that she needs help), and from there mention her allegation about Hijiri being behind this whole thing, but present it in a non accusatory way, eg, from the perspective that Yuuri's not well in the head right now.

Still, urge Hijiri to come absolutely clean, for things will end up better for everyone that way, rather than if she keeps things from us all. Then ask her to help track Yuuri; this has to do with a later part of the vote.

Refuse Kazumi's offer because Yuuri's a witchbomb threat. Since 'dangerous information' is mentioned, this is a perfect time to hug teh mumi. Kazumi asked about what to do with Yuuri, and since she's a witchbomb threat, and her problems would take really long to help her through, I'd propose de-gemming her and putting her on ice for now.

Talk with everyone: About the conditions for Hijiri's future release, since we won't keep her prisoner forever. This is something I feel we need to do, if we want Hijiri to actually consider our point of view, whether she's good Hijiri, evil Hijiri, or complicated Hijiri. This is giving her something, before we ask anything from her.

Hunting: Encourage gucas to figure out ways to use their powers to track Yuuri down faster, throwing out some ideas we've had in thread. Ask if Hijiri could help. Don't know if her 'Connection' power could be specially useful in a search, and her helping would help her standing with the Pleiades.

Finally, share what we've learned about Hijiri and Airi these past few updates.

EDIT: Oh, and asking for IC time to know whether we should be telepathying Nadia yet, or waiting still, so as to not wake her up.

Redshirt Army · Nov 22, 2017

The IC time was 6:30 several updates ago. It's probably a bit before 7:00 right now.

Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

The Sorcerer of Smiles

Prince of Breath

PhotoFop

Archangel of Nutella.

So Easily Forgotten

PhotoFop

I am dissapoint, son

Prince of Breath

Archangel of Nutella.

PhotoFop

PhotoFop

How far will we go if it means lighting the way?

Cannon Fodder

PhotoFop

I Find Your Lack of Memes Disturbing

Archangel of Nutella.

Cannon Fodder