Okay, still looking up any mention of Anri Yuuri's full assumed name but of immediate note WRT the discussion on whether Anri is witchbombed is that, while she doesn't see Asuka Yuuri witch out, she asks a question (to thin air) and then we see Kyuubey (shadowed and obfuscated but definitely Kyuubey) introduce himself by telling her outright that Asuka Yuuri witched out, thus answering her question.
 
Okay, still looking up any mention of Anri Yuuri's full assumed name but of immediate note WRT the discussion on whether Anri is witchbombed is that, while she doesn't see Asuka Yuuri witch out, she asks a question (to thin air) and then we see Kyuubey (shadowed and obfuscated but definitely Kyuubey) introduce himself by telling her outright that Asuka Yuuri witched out, thus answering her question.
Yeah, KB straight up tells Airi that the witch the Pleiades killed (and saved her from) was Yuuri.

Aura's reading seems the most correct, in that Airi condemns the Pleiades so as to deny her own feelings of guilt, as Yuuri had Contracted to cure Airi.

The problem with Airi Anri...

Solving her situation peacefully and without killing/gemming her... well, the easiest route (?) would be getting the Pleiades to show remorse for killing Yuuri ('s Witch). This would probably satisfy Airi's revenge madness to a point.

It would also require witchbombing the Pleiades. And would leave Airi still crazy, just a little pacified.

Actually solving her situation is a lot harder, because it would mean a rejection of the Wish she's using to hide her guilt: She'd need to accept the Pleiades were not the guilty party, accept her own role in Yuuri's witch out, and deal with her feelings in a healthy manner.

That would be problematic enough, except that, since she's a guca, the despair might kill her. Also, Wish rejection makes it all the nastier a business.

Maybe she could point some of the blame at its rightful owner (KB), but that's... not likely to help a lot, as KB enjoys a position of power over pretty much every meguca.
 
[x] The Phoenixian

Not overly ambitious and hard to screw up. The only thing that really worries me is it doesn't feel like we're sufficiently on our guard from our current captive.

Look, Hijiri, for all that she represents a huge potential threat, I think she can be brought around to reason even if she's currently hostile. (That doesn't excuse being a security blockhead.)

Re: wish rejection: I'd like to ask what she wished for. I don't think we've properly considered the extent to which Anri's involvement in the starting conditions could have changed it.

Speaking of redeemability, I have much less confidence about Anri.

(I have precisely zero for The Soujuu Entity. I mean, does ANYONE think they can be turned around?)
 
I mean, does ANYONE think they can be turned around?

Honestly, they could be. Depends on how Firn overhauls them, of course, but if they're given a more sympathetic motivation for collecting soul gems (like the cold girls power letting her keep gems "on ice", and them looking for someone who can de-witch), then I could easily see them being redeemable.

Obviously, them apparently targeting our gem (as foretold by Oriko) is confusing in that context, but my main point is that since Firn is rewriting PMKM anyway, if he wanted to, making the Soujous redeemable while keeping core character concepts would be totally possible.
Adhoc vote count started by Firnagzen on Nov 16, 2017 at 9:49 PM, finished with 129067 posts and 17 votes.

  • [X] Keep abusing multitasking.
    [X] Talk with Hijiri about her actions, and the rationality behind them.
    -[X] Nudge to step back and consider whether she made the right call, or could do better.
    -[X] Pay attention as to whether she's telepathying/subvocalizing.
    [X] Airi: Call her by her real name.
    -[X] Be brief:
    --[X] Show condolence for her loss.
    --[X] We don't understand everything, but we could, if we just talked.
    --[X] Ask her to give us a chance.
    -[X] If she blocks telepathy, insist as long as necessary.
    [X] Hunting:
    -[X] Group brainstorm searching methods.
    --[X] Grief sensors (others should copy this); Ribbon Grid; Sayaklone Army; combos thereof.
    --[X] Encourage others to propose ideas.
    --[X] Ask Hijiri if she's willing to help find Yuuri.
    --[X] Yuuri likes to spy and set up traps. Can we draw her out and counter ambush her?
    [x] Block Hijiri's telepathy using the memory device. It should work through the wall of the MOF. Ask first if appropriate.
    [x] Ask Hijiri what Yuuri was screaming at her about there.
    [x] Ask Hijiri what Yuuri said, all the way back then, that convinced her about the "truth".
    [x] Ask Yuuri what she even wants. All you know is that she is, quote, "deranged". What did the Pleiades do to piss her off?
    [x] Try to get Yuuri's phone number.
    [X] Hijiri
    - [X] Vote in abeyance, with modifications.
    - [X] Apologize to Hijiri for making a mess of things with Yuuri. Offer her a cleanse, to block off Yuuri if she needs it, and if she'd like to talk about what Yuuri was screaming.
    - [X] Talk to Hijiri about what she did, and how she could do better.
    - [X] Ask Hijiri what Yuuri said, back then, that convinced her about the "truth."
    [X] Airi: Call her by her real name.
    -[X] Be brief:
    --[X] We don't understand everything, but we could, if we just talked.
    --[X] Ask her to give us a chance.
    -[X] If she blocks telepathy, insist as long as necessary.
    [X] Group brainstorm searching methods at the museum.
    -[X] Grief sensors (others should copy this); Ribbon Grid; Sayaklone Army; combos thereof.
    -[X] Telepathically, to your allies: Propose doubling something you make as a subvocalization & lie detector.
    -[X] Encourage others to propose ideas.
    -[X] Ask Hijiri if she's willing to help find Yuuri. Make it clear "No" is acceptable.
    -[X] Anri likes to spy and set up traps. Can we draw her out and counter ambush her?
    [X] Do something to force Yuuri to pay attention to us. Call her by her real name? Yuuri hasn't actually dropped the connection with us, so she should actually be hearing what we're saying.
    -[X] Give Yuuri allllll the deats about what Hijiri is telling us about her. That she's a maniac. That she's obsessed.
    --[X] We're pretty convinced that's not what's going on. Friend died, she wished over it, hates the Pleiades because of it... that sound closer to right? Certainly sounds closer to sane.
    ---[X] If she doesn't respond just start playing Navi over the line.
    [X] Make a Grief-construct lie detector. If possible, make it able to tell whether a given statement is partially true but misleading, technically true but misleading, a total lie, or withholding some information but not misleading.
    [X] Question Hijiri--nothing personal, but we need to be sure: was she coordinating with Yuuri at any point since you met her (if so, how)? Has she misled us in any way or omitted any significant information about herself, her actions, or anything regarding Yuuri?
    [X] Propose an idea to Mami: using her ribbons to extend your range, create magic-sensing constructs every 100-meters or so, covering the whole city if time permits.
    [X] Telepathy-call Yuuri, calling her her original name. Explain that she doesn't actually understand the full picture of what happened to her friend.
    [X] Annoy her into submission
    -[X] Make her go limpet on us for safety measure
 
Right, no mention of any surname I can see. Just her assumed given name.
Yeah, KB straight up tells Airi that the witch the Pleiades killed (and saved her from) was Yuuri.

Aura's reading seems the most correct, in that Airi condemns the Pleiades so as to deny her own feelings of guilt, as Yuuri had Contracted to cure Airi.

The problem with Airi Anri...

Solving her situation peacefully and without killing/gemming her... well, the easiest route (?) would be getting the Pleiades to show remorse for killing Yuuri ('s Witch). This would probably satisfy Airi's revenge madness to a point.

It would also require witchbombing the Pleiades. And would leave Airi still crazy, just a little pacified.

Actually solving her situation is a lot harder, because it would mean a rejection of the Wish she's using to hide her guilt: She'd need to accept the Pleiades were not the guilty party, accept her own role in Yuuri's witch out, and deal with her feelings in a healthy manner.

That would be problematic enough, except that, since she's a guca, the despair might kill her. Also, Wish rejection makes it all the nastier a business.

Maybe she could point some of the blame at its rightful owner (KB), but that's... not likely to help a lot, as KB enjoys a position of power over pretty much every meguca.
Well, if you want a plan that is not reserved in the slightest and questionably sane? Disregarding all problems with infohazards and recovering spent grief seeds from Kyuubey for the moment, how well do you think promising to dewitching Asuka Yuuri would help?
 
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Homura grimaces. "Nothing good," she responds. "The people on the elevator don't get pulled in."

:o

It's a desert. Vast, rolling sand dunes stretch off into the distance, the sun blazing down from above. It's high noon.

Hey, didn't Moid's Quest have a desert Witch?
Crossover?:lol

You find... an underground oasis, a small pool of water sitting at the bottom of a large cavern. Looking down, you spot impossibly lush greenery, a single crimson flower sitting atop a mass of leafy vines that curl around the water.

Nope. No crossover. Looks cool, though.
A flower in an underground oasis amidst the desert. I wonder what kind of a wish you have to make to become that.

Goddamn it. This is why I specifically included the "make it clear this is not a recruitment" thing in my vote.

I think QM is sneaking in some things other players said or voted for. I mean those who didn't win the poll. Not in this instance, but, you know, generally speaking. That makes a lot of sense, if he does. How often do you get to completely control your actions?
No slips of tongue?
No stray thoughts?
No careless blunders?
And that's not even mentioning that there are a few dozen of people, who all have a say in what Sabrina would do.

You briefly contemplate taking over the yakuza. They'd probably have the power to stop Nakano Corporation, right? Though you're pretty sure Nakano Corporation's one of Japan's largest urban development companies, and international to boot. Hm. Taking over the yakuza wouldn't be a problem, and since they're international, they'd have the clout to fight them, you think.

They really discussed it?
That... sounds awesome! Why didn't you do that?
Instead of, for example, going to Asunaro...
:rofl:

Disadvantadge: Griefbrina doesn't hit as hard as Sabrina unless moving at dangerous speeds.

You mean, at sufficient veloci...
Alright, this joke had gotten old before SV was even made.

"These... Try not to touch these bits of Grief?" you ask, making sure Sayaka's facing you. "I've got things in here I'd rather not show off or drop."

By the sound of it, it's like she's hiding bodies inside or something. But no, just guns and yakudza gold.

Kyubey is aware Homura is a time traveler, right? At least, he knows a lot of things about her that would only make sense if she was a traveler. And he probably/kinda knows what powers any meguca has?

Mami shakes her head, managing to give Sayaka a chiding look despite hanging from a ribbon. "False exteriors," she says. "Make no mistakes, even something like that can prey on people."

That's profound. Mami is growing up.

That's the second spider Witch you've fought, isn't it? You feel vaguely guilty, memories of elsewhere and elsewhen reminding you of another Witch named Rochelle, a friendly, sapient one.

That means Sabrina remembers all extra and non-canon ( fanfics ) timelines, not just the main ones, right? Hmmmmmmm.

You consider it for a while. Majora's mask is probably something you should never mention around Homura, if nothing else.

So true. We don't want Homura to find out she's a video game character's expy. Groundhog Day loop ahoy!
Zorian would slightly pissed off, as well, come to think of it. Well.

Would you have the heart to do that? Our familiars deserve our full and unconditional support, first and foremost! So what if they come out a little weird... and violent... They'll be ours!

And that's where the big reveal comes in.
Sabrina's not the Witch, she's Homucifer's sentient familiar!
What? It all adds up!:p
I'm sure someone had already been fielding that idea before.

Anomalous Materials finished, but no way in hell was I gonna stop on that cliffhanger.
So I read a little of On a Rail, too.
But that's for another day.
"Yawn"
Or a week.
 
Kyubey is aware Homura is a time traveler, right? At least, he knows a lot of things about her that would only make sense if she was a traveler. And he probably/kinda knows what powers any meguca has?
Kyubey only knows what it can observe. Time-manipulating megucas can fairly easily pass as a few other abilities - time slowing looks like increased speed, time stop is teleporting from the outside, time travel is precog.
It does not get any special insight into a meguca's powers at creation, aside from knowing what their wish was and being able to make a good guess from that. And it doesn't get even that for Homura, due to her wish having happened about 99 units ana-wards.
That being said, it's likely pretty sure she is a time traveller, if it hasn't already said so flat out.

As regarding promising to dewitch Asuka Yuuri... well, it might help, but not while she's all riled up. It's a claim to do what has, until sometime in the future, been impossible. So any meguca's gut reaction would be that we're lying, and that's not going to do jack until she's off-balance enough to listen instead of reject it outright.
 
QB knows that Homura stops time - he told Kyouko about it ages and ages ago.

He also knows that Homura has anomalous knowledge - in the canon show, he figured out that Homura is a time traveler with much less information. It's safe to assume he knows the full gist of Homura's abilities, and likely the focus of her wish as well.
 
[X] Hijiri
- [X] Vote in abeyance, with modifications.
- [X] Apologize to Hijiri for making a mess of things with Yuuri. Offer her a cleanse, to block off Yuuri if she needs it, and if she'd like to talk about what Yuuri was screaming.
- [X] Talk to Hijiri about what she did, and how she could do better.
- [X] Ask Hijiri what Yuuri said, back then, that convinced her about the "truth."

[X] Airi: Call her by her real name.
-[X] Be brief:
--[X] We don't understand everything, but we could, if we just talked.
--[X] Ask her to give us a chance.
-[X] If she blocks telepathy, insist as long as necessary.

[X] Group brainstorm searching methods at the museum.
-[X] Grief sensors (others should copy this); Ribbon Grid; Sayaklone Army; combos thereof.
-[X] Telepathically, to your allies: Propose doubling something you make as a subvocalization & lie detector.
-[X] Encourage others to propose ideas.
-[X] Ask Hijiri if she's willing to help find Yuuri. Make it clear "No" is acceptable.
-[X] Anri likes to spy and set up traps. Can we draw her out and counter ambush her?

Modifications:

Realized that the vote in abeyance exists. :$

Added a bit more of Veb's proposition to the Hijiri talk.

Basically went full force on Onmur's Anri plan, but cut out the condolences, because I still think that's too creepy and could easily shoot the plan down. (And the plan is already potentially offputting as it is.)

Added lie detector/subvocalization detector to the museum plans.

Made it clear to make it clear that Hijiri saying "no" is acceptable. (If I've made that clear.)
 
-[X] Telepathically, to your allies: Propose doubling something you make as a subvocalization & lie detector.
Better: Grief up a tricorder. Ostensibly for tracking, but the things are so ludicrously multifunctional that they're about ten seconds of knob-twiddling away from being telepathy interceptors. Jiggering the comms to eavesdrop on your enemy's communication is 100% thematic, which makes it even easier.
 
Err... the tricorder displays things in indecipherable technobabble. And it wouldn't actually be a tricorder but grief translating what it scans through a template. That's what the grief book was. I don't know if we actually can detect telepathy.
 
We, uh, already tried making a tricorder ages ago, and it only sort of worked.

Really, what we should try to make is a construct that just directly accesses the quasi-omniscience we can obtain within our range through other, more specialized constructs. The grief books, the tricorders, the DNA locator, the soul scanner... Those are all just interfaces.

There's a well of information our power can reach within our reach, and instead of making specialized constructs for each use case, we can just make a singular construct that is designed to give us whatever subset of the available information we need at that particular moment.

That said, getting that set up properly would require a near-maximal trance time (30+ minutes), possibly several times to work out kinks if info overload becomes an issue. In the short term, just get some of our grief nano-fog into Hijiri's larynx and around her throat - listen in on any subvocalizations through direct mechanical contact.

It won't hurt that it's an incredibly effective (quite possibly too effective) security measure in case she goes full hostile, too.
 
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Wasn't the cement mixing guide legit, though?

Yes, it was. It was information we didn't already have, which was located within our grief manipulation radius. I wouldn't be surprised, given the parameters we set, if it was literally a copy of the closest text within 100m that we didn't already know. We were right next to a concrete batching facility.
 
Better: Grief up a tricorder.
We tried that once, but the readout was incomprehensible.

In the short term, just get some of our grief nano-fog into Hijiri's larynx and around her throat - listen in on any subvovalizarions through direct mechanical contact.
Around the outside of her neck should suffice for that purpose. Wearable subvocal microphones are already a thing.


[x] The Phoenixian
 
Err... the tricorder displays things in indecipherable technobabble. And it wouldn't actually be a tricorder but grief translating what it scans through a template. That's what the grief book was. I don't know if we actually can detect telepathy.
Hmm... we may not be able to do it straight, but perhaps we can do a feature phone with tricorder-esque capabilities. I mean, people do say that modern phones are the real Tricorder anyways

Really a smartphone would be more expected, but something makes me think a feature phone seems more thematic for Sabrina.

That said. There is the problem using grief constructs in that Hijiri could copy what we tried via Kazumi's power. Though even if it doesn't stop it this pushes any actual discovery down the road. (Not sure that's better though... first instinct, just be blatant as all hell about it.)

We, uh, already tried making a tricorder ages ago, and it only sort of worked.

Really, what we should try to make is a construct that just directly accesses the quasi-omniscience we can obtain within our range through other, more specialized constructs. The grief books, the tricorders, the DNA locator, the soul scanner... Those are all just interfaces.

There's a well of information our power can reach within our reach, and instead of making specialized constructs for each use case, we can just make a singular construct that is designed to give us whatever subset of the available information we need at that particular moment.

That said, getting that set up properly would require a near-maximal trance time (30+ minutes), possibly several times to work out kinks if info overload becomes an issue. In the short term, just get some of our grief nano-fog into Hijiri's larynx and around her throat - listen in on any subvocalizations through direct mechanical contact.

It won't hurt that it's an incredibly effective (quite possibly too effective) security measure in case she goes full hostile, too.
I think it's worth noting that Subvocalization as a sign of telepathy here can have false positives. If Hijiri is the sort to narrate her thoughts to herself one imagines it could easily be flagged by mistake, especially if we don't get good quality. Not sure what's needed for a subvocal mic, but it a quick look shows electrodes being part of it, which bodes poorly for simple grief manipulation.
 
Yes, it was. It was information we didn't already have, which was located within our grief manipulation radius. I wouldn't be surprised, given the parameters we set, if it was literally a copy of the closest text within 100m that we didn't already know. We were right next to a concrete batching facility.
Copy or not, either is unbelievably useful if we're smart about things. For example, a copy of Hijiri's or Anri's diary obtained without her knowledge could be huge right now.
 
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