- Location
- Brazil
And it is more or less irrelevant, given we won't have the money for anything of notice after this.
So much for double main roads.
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
So much for double main roads.
- Location
- United States
When did anyone ever advocate for double main roads?
People were taking about getting main roads at best, and that was only after we had gotten to at least half interconnectivity.
[X] [Dam] Move to the bigger but more useful proposal (1 Wealth and 1 Tech per action added to remaining costs, requires an additional 2 actions to complete)
[X] [Purity] If slavery is so bad in comparison, maybe even the half-exiles need to be addressed (-1 Stability, the next Patrician, Guild, and Trader quests are all spite quests, all Wealth costs are doubled going forward)
[X] [PP] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn)
[X] [PP] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn) x2
[X] [PP] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn) x3
[X] [PP] Skullduggery (+1 Intrigue/turn, -2Diplo)
Last edited:
- Location
- England
[X] [Purity] The Puritans broke (Lose the Purity trait, possible loss of the prohibition on slavery)
[X] [Purity] While their vigilante violence was wrong, maybe they have a point here (Pride in Acceptance downgraded to Cosmopolitan Acceptance)
[X] [Purity] Some hypocrisy is acceptable (Greater Justice modified)
[X] [Purity] Look to the heavens for a sign (Random, could be all good results from above options, could be all bad results from above options, likely a mix)
[X] [Purity] While their vigilante violence was wrong, maybe they have a point here (Pride in Acceptance downgraded to Cosmopolitan Acceptance)
[X] [Purity] Some hypocrisy is acceptable (Greater Justice modified)
[X] [Purity] Look to the heavens for a sign (Random, could be all good results from above options, could be all bad results from above options, likely a mix)
Expand Forest - the primary action to force into repeating - doesn't cost wealth.
Given the stat crunch we're about to be in, I'd bet on a repeating Expand Economy, too.
It's nowhere near irrelevant.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Is there any chance we can find room to insert a Found March - Spirit Channel there? It's time-sensitive.
And of course we're probably gonna be going to war with the HK soon, so it becomes a matter of which actions we're willing to sacrifice and the narrative of founding the Spirit March is less good considering we need every point of Martial.
Last edited:
I'm going to be honest here.
Spending a couple turns on Black Soil and taking tons of textile cash crop actions probably wouldn't be remiss.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
A new action system is being added with the government upgrade. The details aren't quite finalized but it involves giving up control to get more potency.
Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
[X] [Dam] Make it as big and impressive as possible (2 Wealth and 2 Tech per action added to remaining costs, requires an additional 3 actions to complete)
[X] [Purity] If slavery is so bad in comparison, maybe even the half-exiles need to be addressed (-1 Stability, the next Patrician, Guild, and Trader quests are all spite quests, all Wealth costs are doubled going forward)
[X] [PP] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn)
[X] [PP] Defence (+1 significant walls/turn)
[X] [PP] Special: Forestry (+1 Sustainable Forest and -1 Econ Expansion/2 turns)
[X] [PP] Special: Vassal Support (+1 Subordinate while active, increases Loyalty while active at less than full subordinates)
[X] [Purity] If slavery is so bad in comparison, maybe even the half-exiles need to be addressed (-1 Stability, the next Patrician, Guild, and Trader quests are all spite quests, all Wealth costs are doubled going forward)
[X] [PP] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn)
[X] [PP] Defence (+1 significant walls/turn)
[X] [PP] Special: Forestry (+1 Sustainable Forest and -1 Econ Expansion/2 turns)
[X] [PP] Special: Vassal Support (+1 Subordinate while active, increases Loyalty while active at less than full subordinates)
Astra Stargazer
Comma Queen
- Location
- In a book, somewhere around here...
[X] [Dam] Make it as big and impressive as possible (2 Wealth and 2 Tech per action added to remaining costs, requires an additional 3 actions to complete)
[X] [Purity] If slavery is so bad in comparison, maybe even the half-exiles need to be addressed (-1 Stability, the next Patrician, Guild, and Trader quests are all spite quests, all Wealth costs are doubled going forward)
[X] [Purity] If slavery is so bad in comparison, maybe even the half-exiles need to be addressed (-1 Stability, the next Patrician, Guild, and Trader quests are all spite quests, all Wealth costs are doubled going forward)
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I think it would promptly subvert our progress here due to the labor demands, personally. Sure, there's a chance we'd evolve the system, but I think the chance we undo this or have a crisis is far larger.
Last edited:
No, that's exactly it.
Out of every single thing we can do, the single most mindless, repetitive, and simplistic task that requires the smallest amount of work out of any of our actions is Blacksoil. It is one of the most likely things to start generating mechanization that we can afford to do. Watermills are probably more likely, but yikes on the costs.
Edit: Also the only way out of this crises is to start the industrialization train. We're going to have to do stuff like this.
Last edited:
- Location
- United States
[X] [Dam] Move to the bigger but more useful proposal (1 Wealth and 1 Tech per action added to remaining costs, requires an additional 2 actions to complete)
[X] [Purity] If slavery is so bad in comparison, maybe even the half-exiles need to be addressed (-1 Stability, the next Patrician, Guild, and Trader quests are all spite quests, all Wealth costs are doubled going forward)
This is gonna be a massive step forward for our civ if we get this right. However, the doubled wealth cost of everything under the sun is very prohibitive...so I suggest we go with the less costly dam option. Normally i'd be all for making it as big and impressive as possible, but I think we should give ourselves some breathing room for the next few turns while this goes on.
[X] [Purity] If slavery is so bad in comparison, maybe even the half-exiles need to be addressed (-1 Stability, the next Patrician, Guild, and Trader quests are all spite quests, all Wealth costs are doubled going forward)
This is gonna be a massive step forward for our civ if we get this right. However, the doubled wealth cost of everything under the sun is very prohibitive...so I suggest we go with the less costly dam option. Normally i'd be all for making it as big and impressive as possible, but I think we should give ourselves some breathing room for the next few turns while this goes on.
- Location
- Hell
Man, there are some really salty people in this thread right now.
[X] [Dam] Move to the bigger but more useful proposal (1 Wealth and 1 Tech per action added to remaining costs, requires an additional 2 actions to complete)
[X] [Purity] If slavery is so bad in comparison, maybe even the half-exiles need to be addressed (-1 Stability, the next Patrician, Guild, and Trader quests are all spite quests, all Wealth costs are doubled going forward)
[X] [PP] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn)
[X] [PP] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn) x2
[X] [PP] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn) x3
[X] [PP] Skullduggery (+1 Intrigue/turn, -2Diplo)
Agree with notgreat, we need all the Markets we can grab
[X] [Dam] Move to the bigger but more useful proposal (1 Wealth and 1 Tech per action added to remaining costs, requires an additional 2 actions to complete)
[X] [Purity] If slavery is so bad in comparison, maybe even the half-exiles need to be addressed (-1 Stability, the next Patrician, Guild, and Trader quests are all spite quests, all Wealth costs are doubled going forward)
[X] [PP] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn)
[X] [PP] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn) x2
[X] [PP] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn) x3
[X] [PP] Skullduggery (+1 Intrigue/turn, -2Diplo)
Agree with notgreat, we need all the Markets we can grab
You need an x2
- Location
- Sleeping Somewhere
Can everyone at least consider the other options before jumping on the bandwagon? I know that fixing the half-exile problem is a laudable goal but it can wait. We can come back and fix this when it does not hurt us so much.
It's not like it is the only option we have, the other's are still viable. Here, I will start by listing my thoughts on them. I will even number them by my personal preferences. (Apologies if I miss some things but I am rather tired.)
1. [Purity] Some hypocrisy is acceptable (Greater Justice modified)
This is my preferred option. While I can see some problems allowing some hypocrisy, it is probably already a thing we do. Many of our neighbors are slavers already, they just do it in a less offensive way so we don't attack them like we did the trelli. Choosing this allows us to put off the half-exile problems for time when we can better handle it, letting us get back on our feet once again.
2. [Purity] The Puritans broke (Lose the Purity trait, possible loss of the prohibition on slavery)
Voting for this is relying on chance to get you what you want. On one hand, you are guaranteed to get rid of that pesky value purity. On the other, if things go wrong we could end up losing the prohibition on slavery. However if we did lose it I still think we could fix it at the cost of more social upheaval. I don't want to vote for this because I am hoping to be able to keep a modified version of purity, perhaps something along the lines of "Godliness is Cleanliness" only keeping the disease resistance, or changing the effects in such a way that makes us obsessed with teaching other peoples the folly of their ways rather than straight up purging them.
3. [Purity] If slavery is so bad in comparison, maybe even the half-exiles need to be addressed (-1 Stability, the next Patrician, Guild, and Trader quests are all spite quests, all Wealth costs are doubled going forward)
This is the option everyone want's, because it is the moral choice. It's the bandwagon. It's probably what we are going to get. It could very well could kill us.
4. [Purity] While their vigilante violence was wrong, maybe they have a point here (Pride in Acceptance downgraded to Cosmopolitan Acceptance)
Doing this is adhering to the Puritans demands. Personally I see this as one of the worst options, I would rather not degrade one of our best values while there are still other options.
5. [Purity] Look to the heavens for a sign (Random, could be all good results from above options, could be all bad results from above options, likely a mix)
AKA, pray to the dice gods to get us out of this mess. While we have no idea what this will do, I don't think it is a good pick. This could very easily leave us with the worst of all the options. It is too big of a risk for me to be willing to take.
It's not like it is the only option we have, the other's are still viable. Here, I will start by listing my thoughts on them. I will even number them by my personal preferences. (Apologies if I miss some things but I am rather tired.)
1. [Purity] Some hypocrisy is acceptable (Greater Justice modified)
This is my preferred option. While I can see some problems allowing some hypocrisy, it is probably already a thing we do. Many of our neighbors are slavers already, they just do it in a less offensive way so we don't attack them like we did the trelli. Choosing this allows us to put off the half-exile problems for time when we can better handle it, letting us get back on our feet once again.
2. [Purity] The Puritans broke (Lose the Purity trait, possible loss of the prohibition on slavery)
Voting for this is relying on chance to get you what you want. On one hand, you are guaranteed to get rid of that pesky value purity. On the other, if things go wrong we could end up losing the prohibition on slavery. However if we did lose it I still think we could fix it at the cost of more social upheaval. I don't want to vote for this because I am hoping to be able to keep a modified version of purity, perhaps something along the lines of "Godliness is Cleanliness" only keeping the disease resistance, or changing the effects in such a way that makes us obsessed with teaching other peoples the folly of their ways rather than straight up purging them.
3. [Purity] If slavery is so bad in comparison, maybe even the half-exiles need to be addressed (-1 Stability, the next Patrician, Guild, and Trader quests are all spite quests, all Wealth costs are doubled going forward)
This is the option everyone want's, because it is the moral choice. It's the bandwagon. It's probably what we are going to get. It could very well could kill us.
4. [Purity] While their vigilante violence was wrong, maybe they have a point here (Pride in Acceptance downgraded to Cosmopolitan Acceptance)
Doing this is adhering to the Puritans demands. Personally I see this as one of the worst options, I would rather not degrade one of our best values while there are still other options.
5. [Purity] Look to the heavens for a sign (Random, could be all good results from above options, could be all bad results from above options, likely a mix)
AKA, pray to the dice gods to get us out of this mess. While we have no idea what this will do, I don't think it is a good pick. This could very easily leave us with the worst of all the options. It is too big of a risk for me to be willing to take.
Repeated Actions are a new form of tool coming in the upcoming government reform. Long story short, it allows us to set one of our actions to occur every turn. This allows us to double the effectiveness of whatever we assign this way.
The current consensus is to invest a Sec Expand Forest, which translates to a Main Expand Forest every turn. This is great because it frees up passives and grants innovation rolls.
Alternatively, there's some support for doing something similar, where we tell the Yeomen to do it for us for a while. Because reasons, this would translate to a Double Main Expand Forest every turn, but increases their power while doing so.
Either of these make Forestry passives kind of obsolete at this point.
- Location
- Earth
- Pronouns
- She/Her/They/Them
[X] [Dam] Move to the bigger but more useful proposal (1 Wealth and 1 Tech per action added to remaining costs, requires an additional 2 actions to complete)
[X] [Purity] If slavery is so bad in comparison, maybe even the half-exiles need to be addressed (-1 Stability, the next Patrician, Guild, and Trader quests are all spite quests, all Wealth costs are doubled going forward)
[X] [PP] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn)
[X] [PP] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn) x2
[X] [PP] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn) x3
[X] [PP] Skullduggery (+1 Intrigue/turn, -2Diplo)
[X] [Purity] If slavery is so bad in comparison, maybe even the half-exiles need to be addressed (-1 Stability, the next Patrician, Guild, and Trader quests are all spite quests, all Wealth costs are doubled going forward)
[X] [PP] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn)
[X] [PP] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn) x2
[X] [PP] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn) x3
[X] [PP] Skullduggery (+1 Intrigue/turn, -2Diplo)
[X] [PP] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn)
[X] [PP] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn) x2
[X] [PP] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn) x3
[X] [PP] Skullduggery (+1 Intrigue/turn, -2Diplo)
Ugh, I hate to say it, but yes, we do need to do this.
Urbanization is basically going to be one of the saving graces for getting out of this. Not only do cities generate the necessary stats, but they also generate the necessary innovation rolls. With more people also moving to cities the forced labor shortages will see greater needs. On top of all of this, Academies and Libraries are both infrastructure projects now. We're going to need both to help dealing with the increased tech demands of our society as this progresses.
We really do need infrastructure now.
[X] [PP] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn) x2
[X] [PP] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn) x3
[X] [PP] Skullduggery (+1 Intrigue/turn, -2Diplo)
Ugh, I hate to say it, but yes, we do need to do this.
Urbanization is basically going to be one of the saving graces for getting out of this. Not only do cities generate the necessary stats, but they also generate the necessary innovation rolls. With more people also moving to cities the forced labor shortages will see greater needs. On top of all of this, Academies and Libraries are both infrastructure projects now. We're going to need both to help dealing with the increased tech demands of our society as this progresses.
We really do need infrastructure now.
Making as in "in the process of becoming". Once we max out on lvl1 (upgraded) markets it's purely cost neutral.
Not really, not when we're going to be going to war with the HK soon and we're unable to raise our martial effectively except via econ overflow. I wanted it too, but I don't think it's worth giving up the alternatives.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Narratively I consider this the worst option. It's the option where we acknowledge that people are suffering in our society, that injustice exists, and then ignore it instead of doing anything. I do not want to find out what kind of Moloch Calls type trait we'd get from that.
Ando Owen
Yandere Illya is watching you.
- Location
- Montpellier
[X] [Purity] If slavery is so bad in comparison, maybe even the half-exiles need to be addressed (-1 Stability, the next Patrician, Guild, and Trader quests are all spite quests, all Wealth costs are doubled going forward)
I don't know about the rest, but this has to happen.
I don't know about the rest, but this has to happen.
@Academia Nut
Has there been significant changes to the upcoming Government Reform that we should know about for planning?
Just asking before I do an analysis for what to do with our passives when it happens. Understandable if you just want to just delay discussing it further until it happens though.
Has there been significant changes to the upcoming Government Reform that we should know about for planning?
Just asking before I do an analysis for what to do with our passives when it happens. Understandable if you just want to just delay discussing it further until it happens though.
Powerofmind
In Madness Fallen
- Location
- United States
Tfw ANs quest tags have completely overtaken the trending tag cloud on the entire site.
The Sandman
So Zetta Slowpoke
- Location
- Wherever I am, which isn't where I'm not
Putting off the slavery issue just means that we never deal with the problem. Best to do so long before sugarcane or large-scale cotton plantations
And East Asia somehow managed without slave labor, as did Mesoamerica and the Andean civilizations.
And East Asia somehow managed without slave labor, as did Mesoamerica and the Andean civilizations.
That's why we haven't tried it until now. But now that the only options are fixing it or damaging one of our treasured values in a way that would be very difficult to repair, it's a whole different story.