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Paths of Civilization

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Kiba said:
We should, uh, try to slow down, lest we get whacked by the paradox of development I keep badgering you guys about.
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This 100%. We need to pump the urbanization/industrialization brakes a bit before we lose control of the train. Stabilizing our periphery and maybe improving our administrative abilities seems like it should be a priority.
 
Academia Nut said:
2. Maaaaaaayyyyyyyybbbbbbeeeee :drevil: Not yet
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Trolling Author :p

Also, if you have the time and energy, @Academia Nut :
Abby Normal said:
-1. Can we use Guild Actions to build the gold mine?
-2. How many provinces would integrating Gulvalley provide? What sort of Road progress and stat gain should we expect?
-3. Does the cent tolerance penalty from going past 12 provinces round up? I.e. assuming gulvalley only gives 1 province still, would that lead to an extra cent tolerance penalty?
-4. Can we switch our mercenaries to being directly supported, even with sending them to the HK, and would that affect their effectiveness or their reinforcement ability any?
-5. Can we confidently assume that we'll have a PSN trigger next midturn, if we don't otherwise reduce centralization with our main actions?
-6. As a level 2 city, does Redshore also get a second Free City policy to use?
-7. While Roads and Governor's palaces don't round up in their bonuses to cent tolerance (roads) and administrative city support (Governor's palace), i don't suppose having both at 2/3rds of the way to a point in our favor cent tolerance wise can combine and make us not overcentralized? <3
-8. Just to be sure, will all of the pending stats other than naval (And refugee econ) come in before we choose main actions next turn? That seems to be what the civ sheet is saying, but sometimes it seems delayed more than expected (or vice versa).
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I had a little bit of time, and so I've put organized the actions taken by each of our subordinates since the last Epic Age (when the Great Power War with the Khemetri had been completed.

Here are the actions lists that I started with before sorting by category:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Western – [Main] Build Iron Mine, [Main] Survey
Greenshore – [Sec] Build Walls, [Sec] New Settlement
Gulvalley – [Sec] Expand Econ, [Sec] Raise Army
Heaven's Hawk – [Main] War Mission – Northern Nomads
Txolla – [Main] Expand Econ, [Sec] Raise Army
Tinriver – [Sec] Build Mills, [Sec] Expand Econ

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Western – [Main] Expand Forest, [Main] Glassworks
Greenshore – [Main] New Settlement, [Sec] Build Walls
Gulvalley – [Sec] Build Walls, [Sec] Survey
Heaven's Hawk – [Main] Trade Mission – Eastern Nomads
Txolla – [Main] Rework Irrigation, [Sec] Black Soil
Tinriver – [Main] Build Docks

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Western – [Main] Governor's Palace (6/9), [Sec] New Trails, [Sec] Aqueduct (3/3)
Greenshore – [Main] New Settlement, [Sec] Build Walls, [Sec] New Trails
Gulvalley – [Main] Survey
Heaven's Hawk – [Main] Survey
Txolla – [Main] Expand Econ, [Sec] Black Soil
Tinriver – [Sec] Trade Mission - Trelli, [Sec] Trade Mission – Tin Tribes
Thunder Speakers – [Sec] Support Artisans, [Sec] Expand Econ
Ruined Thunder Horse – [Main] Repair

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
FC – Redshore Baths (3/3), Redhills Baths (1/3)
Western – [Main] New Settlement, [Main] New Settlement
Greenshore – [Main] Expand Econ, [Main] New Settlement
Gulvalley – [Main] Build Copper Mine
Heaven's Hawk – [Main] Support Artisans
Txolla – [Main] Build Vineyard, [Sec] Support Artisans
Tinriver – [Main] Trade Mission – Tintribes
Thunder Speakers – [Main] Rework Irrigation
Ruined Thunder Horse – [Main] Rework Irrigation
Far North – [Sec] Expand Econ, [Sec] Raise Army

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
FC – Redshore Library (3/3), Redhills Baths (3/3)
Western – [Main] New Settlement, [Main] Build Roads, [Sec] Expand Forest
Greenshore – [Main] New Settlement, [Main] Survey
Gulvalley – [Main] Build Roads
Heaven's Hawk – [Main] War Mission – Northern Nomads
Txolla – [Main] Expand Forest [Sec] Black Soil
Tinriver – [Main] Raise Army
Thunder Speakers – [Sec] Black Soil, [Sec] Expand Forest
Thunder Horse – [Sec] Black Soil, [Sec] Expand Forest
Amber Road – [Sec] Temple (3/3), [Sec] Art Patronage

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
FC – Redshore (Innovation), Redhills (Wealth)
Western – [Main] New Settlement, [Main] Build Watchtowers, [Sec] Build Walls
Greenshore – [Main] Plant Cotton, [Main] Support Artisans
Gulvalley – [Main] New Settlement
Heaven's Hawk – [Sec] Black Soil, [Sec] Build Watermills
Txolla – [Main] New Settlement, [Sec] Build Wall
Thunder Speakers – [Main] New Settlement
Thunder Horse – [Main] New Settlement
Amber Road – [Sec] Library, [Sec] Raise Army

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
FC - Redshore (Innovation), Redhills (Innovation)
Western – [Main] New Settlement
Greenshore – [Main] New Settlement, [Sec] Greenshore Aqueduct (3/3), [Sec] Build Watchtowers
Gulvalley – [Main] New Settlement, [Sec] Build Roads
Heaven's Hawk – [Sec] Expand Forest, [Sec] Phygriftywn Aqueduct (3/9)
Txolla – [Main] New Settlement, [Sec] Build Wall
Tinshore – [Main] Sailing Mission – Beyond Straits
Thunder Speakers – [Main] New Settlement
Thunder Horse – [Main] New Settlement
Amber Road – [Sec] Expand Forest, [Sec] Expand Econ

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
FC - Redshore (Armament +1 Martial), Redhills (Armament +1 Martial)
Western – [Main] New Settlement, [Sec] Raise Army
Greenshore – [Main] New Settlement, [Sec] Raise Army, [Sec] More Warships
Gulvalley – [Main] New Settlement, [Sec] War Mission – Pirate Clans
Heaven's Hawk – [Sec] Expand Econ, [Sec] Phygriftywn Aqueduct (6/9)
Txolla – [Main] New Settlement, [Sec] Build Wall
Tinshore – [Main] Trade Mission - Trelli
Thunder Speakers – [Main] New Settlement
Thunder Horse – [Main] New Settlement
Amber Road – [Sec] Expand Forest, [Sec] Expand Econ

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
FC – Redshore (Skullduggery, -2 Diplo, +1 Intrigue), Redhills (City Support)
Heaven's Hawk – [Sec] Survey, [Sec] Trade Mission – Into the Wild (East)
Western Wall – [Main] Expand Econ, [Sec] Expand Forests
Gulvalley – [Main] New Settlement, [Sec] Survey
Greenshore – [Main] Expand Econ, [Sec] Raise Army, [Sec] War Mission – Pirate Clans
Tinriver – [Main] War Mission – Pirate Clans
Txolla – [Main] New Settlement, [Sec] Watchtowers
Thunder Speakers – [Main] New Settlement
Thunder Horse – [Main] New Settlement
Amber Road – [Main] War Mission – Hostile Tribes


Alright! Now, onto the good stuff:


Marches
Heaven's Hawk
[Main] War Mission – Northern Nomads
[Main] Trade Mission – Eastern Nomads
[Main] Survey
[Main] Support Artisans
[Main] War Mission – Northern Nomads
[Sec] Black Soil, [Sec] Build Watermills
[Sec] Expand Forest, [Sec] Phygriftywn Aqueduct (3/9)
[Sec] Expand Econ, [Sec] Phygriftywn Aqueduct (6/9)
[Sec] Survey, [Sec] Trade Mission – Into the Wild (East)

Heaven's Hawk is our sole March. It has spent a little time sending Trade and War missions, but mostly it has been doing more civil-minded actions like Surveying and building infrastructure.


Trading Posts
Tinshore
[Sec] Build Mills, [Sec] Expand Econ
[Main] Build Docks
[Sec] Trade Mission - Trelli, [Sec] Trade Mission – Tin Tribes
[Main] Trade Mission – Tintribes
[Main] Raise Army
{Nothing?}
[Main] Sailing Mission – Beyond Straits
[Main] Trade Mission - Trelli
[Main] War Mission – Pirate Clans
Amber Road
[Sec] Expand Econ, [Sec] Raise Army
[Sec] Temple (3/3), [Sec] Art Patronage
[Sec] Library, [Sec] Raise Army
[Sec] Expand Forest, [Sec] Expand Econ
[Sec] Expand Forest, [Sec] Expand Econ
[Main] War Mission – Hostile Tribes
(Note: Although Tinriver has spent most of its life as a Trading Post, it has recently been converted to the Colony of Tinriver. Still, I think ti is most fitting to place it in this category.)
(Note: Tinriver had no actions listed in Gold Egg Cracks. I think this is AN oversight, but I'm not sure.)

Tinriver was our colony by the Trelli and the Metal Workers. It has spent most of its time sending Trade and Sailing missions, though it also spent some time building infrastructure and raising an army, and recently has helped in our attack on the pirates.

Amber Road is our recently established colony in the Far North. It has spent its time Raising an army, then building a Temple + Library to duplicate the Greater Sacred Forest megaproject, and then Expanding Forests and Expanding Econ. Recently, it has had to fight with "Hostile Tribes".


Colonies
Western Wall
[Main] Build Iron Mine, [Main] Survey
[Main] Expand Forest, [Main] Glassworks
[Main] Governor's Palace (6/9), [Sec] New Trails, [Sec] Aqueduct (3/3)
[Main] New Settlement, [Main] New Settlement
[Main] New Settlement, [Main] Build Roads, [Sec] Expand Forest
[Main] New Settlement, [Main] Build Watchtowers, [Sec] Build Walls
[Main] New Settlement
[Main] New Settlement, [Sec] Raise Army
[Main] Expand Econ, [Sec] Expand Forests
Greenshore
[Sec] Build Walls, [Sec] New Settlement
[Main] New Settlement, [Sec] Build Walls
[Main] New Settlement, [Sec] Build Walls, [Sec] New Trails
[Main] Expand Econ, [Main] New Settlement
[Main] New Settlement, [Main] Survey
[Main] Plant Cotton, [Main] Support Artisans
[Main] New Settlement, [Sec] Greenshore Aqueduct (3/3), [Sec] Build Watchtowers
[Main] New Settlement, [Sec] Raise Army, [Sec] More Warships
[Main] Expand Econ, [Sec] Raise Army, [Sec] War Mission – Pirate Clans
Gulvalley
[Sec] Expand Econ, [Sec] Raise Army
[Sec] Build Walls, [Sec] Survey
[Main] Survey
[Main] Build Copper Mine
[Main] Build Roads
[Main] New Settlement
[Main] New Settlement, [Sec] Build Roads
[Main] New Settlement, [Sec] War Mission – Pirate Clans
[Main] New Settlement, [Sec] Survey

The Western Wall has been our largest subordinate for a long time, at one point going up to 5 secondaries worth of power. It has spent about half of its time adding New Settlements, and most of rest on area improvements like Roads, Walls, Watchtowers, Forests, and Mines.

Greenshore is quite similar. It too spends much of its time on New Settlements, though the rest is far more focused on military pursuits then WW; spending time on raising Walls, mustering Armies, building Warships, and helping stomp the Pirates.

Finally, Gulvalley is our newest and smallest colony. It again spends half of its time on New Settlements, with the rest going mostly to Surveys, Mines, Roads.


Free Cities
Redshore
Redshore Baths
Redshore Library
(Innovation)
(Innovation)
(Armament)
(Skullduggery)
Redhills
Redhills Baths
Redhills Baths
(Wealth)
(Innovation)
(Armament)
(City Support)
We've got Redshore and Redhills as Free Cities. They've both started by improving their infrastructure before transitioning into other useful stuff. Not too much to say here.


Vassals
Thunder Speakers
Thunder Speakers – [Sec] Support Artisans, [Sec] Expand Econ
Thunder Speakers – [Main] Rework Irrigation
Thunder Speakers – [Sec] Black Soil, [Sec] Expand Forest
Thunder Speakers – [Main] New Settlement
Thunder Speakers – [Main] New Settlement
Thunder Speakers – [Main] New Settlement
Thunder Speakers – [Main] New Settlement
Thunder Horse
[Main] Repair
[Main] Rework Irrigation
[Sec] Black Soil, [Sec] Expand Forest
[Main] New Settlement[Main] New Settlement
[Main] New Settlement
[Main] New Settlement
Txolla
[Main] Expand Econ, [Sec] Raise Army
[Main] Rework Irrigation, [Sec] Black Soil
[Main] Expand Econ, [Sec] Black Soil
[Main] Build Vineyard, [Sec] Support Artisans
[Main] Expand Forest [Sec] Black Soil
[Main] New Settlement, [Sec] Build Wall
[Main] New Settlement, [Sec] Build Wall
[Main] New Settlement, [Sec] Build Wall
[Main] New Settlement, [Sec] Watchtowers
Our three vassals are Txolla, the Thunder Horse, and the Thunder Speakers. All three started out with Black Soil and reworking Irrigation, only to simultaneously transition into building Settlements a couple of turns back. Looks like they really like our Land Reorganization GA Innovation.
 
What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Build the dam, build the canal, reform our administration, integrate Txolla.
 
PrimalShadow said:
Hey, guys.

Each of our Vassals has done 4 mains on this, which should be 8/10 progress if their track is like ours.
One more turn, and they get rewards.

Should we be happy for them, or scared?
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Actually, the 0/10 doesn't work like with province progress:
Academia Nut said:
Yes, this represents "filling things in". And yes, Main just gives the stats and quicker income.
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So it would be at 4/10 if all of their actions were internal...but our vassals should all have external targets still, i'm pretty sure, and Txolla at least had internal settlements that could lead to new provinces, just from not having settlements at all, instead of internal reorg, so i wouldn't bet on all those new settlements being internal reorg.

That said, in retrospect, i'm pretty sure we had 10 provinces when we got the land reform done, since WW integration was still pending. So it might only open one "slot" per province, in which case our vassals would have fewer internal slots than us.
 
I wonder if there is a legacy for finishing 3 Faction Quests simultaneously?

Next turn, I expect to build the Mine, so Traders are happy. I expect to integrate Gulvally, so Yeomen are happy. And I expect to build the Ironworks, so Guilds are happy.
 
*ponders*

What if we went full Wealth?

Would another 5 Wealth be enough to deal with the Patricians?

This is not a solve-all as the current lead

But

It does solve the most immediate problem and even if it is inefficient, 5 extra Wealth is nothing to scoff at and is helpful for our other problems.
 
Sivantic said:
*ponders*

What if we went full Wealth?

Would another 5 Wealth be enough to deal with the Patricians?

This is not a solve-all as the current lead

But

It does solve the most immediate problem and even if it is inefficient, 5 extra Wealth is nothing to scoff at and is helpful for our other problems.
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Sorta, since with +5 Wealth from policies we'd end up at +2 income per turn instead of -3, but since it is net positive it comes after action expenses and can't help with the Patricians. So with their stated desire of 2x More Spiritbonded and our 7 Wealth we'd bounce off -3 Wealth for a second. But we'd fix our wealth problems completely, in exchange for losing out on dealing with other things, but that's nearly how it always is.
 
Sivantic said:
*ponders*

What if we went full Wealth?

Would another 5 Wealth be enough to deal with the Patricians?

This is not a solve-all as the current lead

But

It does solve the most immediate problem and even if it is inefficient, 5 extra Wealth is nothing to scoff at and is helpful for our other problems.
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Meaning 5 Trade passive policies here? We wouldn't get the Wealth for our coming Main Turn, would we? The only impact they can have on that, as far as I know, is removing the need to leave a buffer for our negative income, of which I think we're about to have 3.

BungieONI said:
Sorta, since with +5 Wealth from policies we'd end up at +2 income per turn instead of -3, but since it is net positive it comes after action expenses and can't help with the Patricians. So with their stated desire of 2x More Spiritbonded and our 7 Wealth we'd bounce off -3 Wealth for a second. But we'd fix our wealth problems completely, in exchange for losing out on dealing with other things, but that's nearly how it always is.
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Doesn't seem like the right move in light of us being likely to get the Grand Bazaar. I'm not wholly opposed to taking a bunch of passive policies for relatively short term reasons, but I don't think this quite fits the bill.
 
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George said:
Doesn't seem like the right move in light of us being likely to get the Grand Bazaar. I'm not wholly opposed to taking a bunch of passive policies for relatively short term reasons, but I don't think this quite fits the bill.
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Especially when you note that if we ain't careful next turn we can lose Valleyguard just through our Expansion income and thus one of the five policies.
I'm not sure but I think the plan I support the most currently, PrimalShadow's, has us lose two cities. But I'm okay with this since it helps with our Cent and Panem issues.

-Valleyhome [Aqueduct, Baths, Sig. Walls, Capital, Palace] (19 EE Threshold)
-Blackmouth [Aqueduct, Baths, Governor's Palace, Sig. Walls?] (19 EE Threshold)
-Sacred Forest [Aqueduct, Baths, Sig. Walls] (17 EE Threshold)
-Stallion Pen [Aqueduct, Mass. Walls] (13 EE Threshold)
-Valleyguard [Aqueduct, Sig. Walls?] (8 EE Threshold)
-Lower Valleyhome [Aqueduct] (1 EE Threshold)
 
Sivantic said:
*ponders*

What if we went full Wealth?

Would another 5 Wealth be enough to deal with the Patricians?

This is not a solve-all as the current lead

But

It does solve the most immediate problem and even if it is inefficient, 5 extra Wealth is nothing to scoff at and is helpful for our other problems.
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If I remember correctly, diplomacy overflows into wealth, so I would prefer narratively just getting 5 Diplo passively overflow into wealth instead of just getting 5 wealth.

We basically never use Diplo anyways, so it should almost always be available to overflow into wealth.

I also prefer the narrative of sending out diplomats over sending our traders, as I think diplomats would be better at fostering good relations than traders.
 
Kiba said:
2) It is not possible to link the Yllthyon Mor to Txolla. For that, we need ANOTHER canal in the valley to connect the Great River and the Snycruv River, which requires either EXPLOSIVES or a shit ton of manpower. What a canal will do here is feed the valley and provide logistics and transport for our armies.
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:?

WoAN is here. Did I misinterpret it?

4) The Triangle Canal IS NOT A TRAP. IT IS NOT A TRAP! It provides a formidable barrier against nomads. The nomads are not military engineers, and wouldn't know a shovel if it hit them in the face. Their horses would need to ford the river, which makes them vulnerable targets to our boat or land patrols. It will also provide opportunities to fortify the steppes with more forests. It also provides a transportation hub for logistics in the area, and we have seen how effective our longships are against nomads. Unlike the canal you're thinking of, this feeds the Yllthyon Mor because it can actually access the Yllthyon Sea.
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.~.

I specifically said it wasn't a trap. I just said it would be a very serious investment of time, labor, and possibly blood.

PrimalShadow said:
We don't have Overflow Woes. The only time it was a problem was when we got just about 50 points of resources from Reformers.

We have spent the last several turns suffering from a shortage of Econ, and now a shortage of Wealth/Martial, and soon to be a shortage of Tech on top of that. Finding more ways to spend our stats is not the problem we need to be solving right now.
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I'll take your word for it on overflow.

The fact that we're low on Econ / Martial / Wealth is actually what I'm referring to: we need those stats, but we don't have a particularly great method for turning Tech, Culture, and Mysticism, which we can spare (well, maybe not Tech) back into Econ / Martial / Wealth. Having a formal Academy might give us the option to Study Crops or something similar to, for example, burn Mysticism for Econ. That specifically is very unlikely, but an Academy probably gives us more fluidity in exchanging those stats for others.

If we had, for example, a way to turn Mysticism into Wealth or even just Econ, that would have been helpful last turn. It's not the main reason I'm for the Academy, but it is a potential side benefit.
 
Janadus said:
:?

WoAN is here. Did I misinterpret it?
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I think so.

We have three canal possibles:

Triangle canal: North of Stallions. The river Blackmouth is on goes north and splits into two rivers. The Triangle Canal is about connecting these two rivers.

Gulvalley canal: In Gulvalley once we integrate it and get the Khem on board, a canal can be built which just skips right past the Trelli entirely. Its also an ass to build because it is so big, same problem as the Triangle.

Lowlands canal: South of Upper Valleyhome, past Lower Valleyhome and near Valleyguard there is a series of badlands and then cataracts. If we build The Dam here we unlock the ability to go east with a canal from the dam(because post dam the badlands will basically be a lake) into the Lowlands and get access to all that sweet sweet bulk transport.

There is currently no way to connect the Txolla into the Yllthyon Mor. You'd first have to do the Dam, the Lowlands Canal and then invent explosives to tunnel through the hills North of Valleyhome which separate the Great River from the Syncruv.


I hope that addressed what you wanted :)
 
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[X] [Art] Sanitation is too important not to entrust to experts! (Several actions gain or increase their Tech costs, +1 Urban Poor power, ???)
[X] [Policy] Diplomacy (+1 Diplo/turn)
[X] [Policy] Skullduggery (+1 Intrigue/turn, -2 Diplo)
[X] [Policy] City Support (2 True Cities have their maintenance paid for each turn)
[X] [Policy] Special: Forestry (+1 Sustainable Forest and -1 Econ Expansion/2 turns)
[X][Policy] Special: Vassal Support (+1 Subordinate while active, increases Loyalty while active at less than full subordinates)
[X] [HK] Offer to let them buy the Banner Company contracts
-[X] [HK] Show goodwill (Pay upkeep costs yourself but gain Diplomacy instead for duration of hire)

Updating my vote. Seems like we're going to be very constrained on actions next turn.
 
BungieONI said:
I think so.

We have three canal possibles:

Triangle canal: North of Stallions. The river Blackmouth is on goes north and splits into two rivers. The Triangle Canal is about connecting these two rivers.

Gulvalley canal: In Gulvalley once we integrate it and get the Khem on board, a canal can be built which just skips right past the Trelli entirely. Its also an ass to build because it is so big, same problem as the Triangle.

Lowlands canal: South of Upper Valleyhome, past Lower Valleyhome and near Valleyguard there is a series of badlands and then cataracts. If we build The Dam here we unlock the ability to go east with a canal from the dam(because post dam the badlands will basically be a lake) into the Lowlands and get access to all that sweet sweet bulk transport.

There is currently no way to connect the Txolla into the Yllthyon Mor. You'd first have to do the Dam, the Lowlands Canal and then invent explosives to tunnel through the hills North of Valleyhome which separate the Great River from the Syncruv.


I hope that addressed what you wanted :)
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Are you sure explosives are strictly necessary for it?
 
George said:
Are you sure explosives are strictly necessary for it?
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Either that, or hundred of thousand of workers. Our True Cities are somewhere between 100-200,000 people. So, conservatively, if we have Sacred Forest, Redshore, and Valleyhome coordinates together, we would be using 1/3 of the entire population just to dig the canal, or 1/6. Either way, that's a huge number, and how do we even coordinate the logistics for that?
 
George said:
Are you sure explosives are strictly necessary for it?
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BungieONI said:
Yes because way back when we considered "Hey can we connect Upper Valleyhome to the Not!Black Sea?" AN said something along the lines of "No, get booms. Or a lack of care for loss of life." from what I recall.
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Here:
Academia Nut said:
Either explosives or throwing tens of thousands of bodies at the problem. You would have to dig through a considerable amount of stone to get the grading right.
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