What is your suggestion for guild action? Plant crops? More Porcelain? Not sure if I want to upset Mountain Horse.
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
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What is your suggestion for guild action? Plant crops? More Porcelain? Not sure if I want to upset Mountain Horse.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
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- She/Her
Hmmmm...
*starts rooting around in the actions*
Overcentralized: Losing a Main Action due to bureaucratic paralysis, as well as -2 Wealth and -2 Econ from mismanagement
Diplomacy 18 [+4]
-Intrigue 5
Econ 24 [-13+6]
-Sustainable Forests 25{28}/28
-Econ Expansion 4 [+13-6] [Overcrowding Min: -6]
Martial 2 (+1) {6}
-Light Cavalry 1
Naval 0 (+0+1)
Wealth 7 [+3]
Culture 24 [+5]
Mysticism 24 (+5) [+3-3]
Tech 18 (+7) [+1-1]
Econ has -9 due to Overcent. Wealth has a -2 applied, before(?), anything else due to Overcent then sending Mercs on Good Will has our income be +1. Net Wealth income -1 so it happens first.
No War Mission requirement.
Patricians want pony, and even if we support them now, they will want more pony after, as in "Curious Developments" it says to expect repeat performances. Suppress costs 2 stability, 4 Econ in the drain phase after action income, and that quest is gone. Expect spite quest.
Urban Poor requires build a Level 1 Market ->upgrade that to Level 2, and build another level 1 somewhere else. 9 progress in total, Each {S} costs 3 Wealth and 3 Culture for 3 progress. 9 Wealth and 9 Culture.
At base we have +7 Expansion coming in so we will end up at 11, losing at least one city and one policy, and I think risking another. We can correct this if we wish by taking a single expand econ secondary, as we will end up with 5 in that case which is below the threshold for our last city at 8.
Tech is going to max out and actually get to 25. So if we gain no provinces, we will have 11 Overflow from the Mystic Cycle into Diplo. Diplo is at 18 [+4] which means it will eat two of that Overflow and then send 9 to Wealth. If we take an expand econ secondary there is no Tech overflow and the overflow that hits Wealth is +8. Also after a sec expand econ our econ will be at 22 which means a mid turn expand econ PSN of any size will finish the priest quest.
We have an Overcent problem so turning Lower Valleyhome into a free city will correct that. Integrating Gulvalley may or may not correct that. As we hit 15/12 provinces at least we may end up with still losing 1 Max Cent and will lose 1 Cent Value, so we still stick in Red, but we'll just be at 6 Cent.
Hmmm... I think that's most of everything. Big thing is the overflow.
*starts rooting around in the actions*
Overcentralized: Losing a Main Action due to bureaucratic paralysis, as well as -2 Wealth and -2 Econ from mismanagement
Diplomacy 18 [+4]
-Intrigue 5
Econ 24 [-13+6]
-Sustainable Forests 25{28}/28
-Econ Expansion 4 [+13-6] [Overcrowding Min: -6]
Martial 2 (+1) {6}
-Light Cavalry 1
Naval 0 (+0+1)
Wealth 7 [+3]
Culture 24 [+5]
Mysticism 24 (+5) [+3-3]
Tech 18 (+7) [+1-1]
Econ has -9 due to Overcent. Wealth has a -2 applied, before(?), anything else due to Overcent then sending Mercs on Good Will has our income be +1. Net Wealth income -1 so it happens first.
No War Mission requirement.
Patricians want pony, and even if we support them now, they will want more pony after, as in "Curious Developments" it says to expect repeat performances. Suppress costs 2 stability, 4 Econ in the drain phase after action income, and that quest is gone. Expect spite quest.
Urban Poor requires build a Level 1 Market ->upgrade that to Level 2, and build another level 1 somewhere else. 9 progress in total, Each {S} costs 3 Wealth and 3 Culture for 3 progress. 9 Wealth and 9 Culture.
At base we have +7 Expansion coming in so we will end up at 11, losing at least one city and one policy, and I think risking another. We can correct this if we wish by taking a single expand econ secondary, as we will end up with 5 in that case which is below the threshold for our last city at 8.
Tech is going to max out and actually get to 25. So if we gain no provinces, we will have 11 Overflow from the Mystic Cycle into Diplo. Diplo is at 18 [+4] which means it will eat two of that Overflow and then send 9 to Wealth. If we take an expand econ secondary there is no Tech overflow and the overflow that hits Wealth is +8. Also after a sec expand econ our econ will be at 22 which means a mid turn expand econ PSN of any size will finish the priest quest.
We have an Overcent problem so turning Lower Valleyhome into a free city will correct that. Integrating Gulvalley may or may not correct that. As we hit 15/12 provinces at least we may end up with still losing 1 Max Cent and will lose 1 Cent Value, so we still stick in Red, but we'll just be at 6 Cent.
Hmmm... I think that's most of everything. Big thing is the overflow.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It gets stuck together, so you only get the single point of refund.
Ironworks level 2 also increases the tech cost of Expand Economy.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I think you forgot that our +2 Wealth from Mercenaries is going to -2 rather than +0
- Location
- Canada
Yeah Islam acted as a unifying force for the desert tribes of Arabia and managed to unite them under one banner thus creating a central authority on its own. The lack of sons, advanced age of the Prophet and the refusal of some people accepting succession by anything other then blood inheritance kicked off a civil war that morphed into the two major sects we see today. Hopefully we can get this new religion under our control soon enough.
You are just forcing policies + redshore to take it.
Econ will be at -7 once you factor in City Support policy.
Wealth should be at [-1]; we go from +2/turn from renting our Mercenaries to -2/turn to paying them ourselves.
Pony next turn should be less of a problem. We should be able to pay for the Wealth via the mine, and we can get more wealth by doing Plant Cotton or something midturn (or maybe we will get it from Passive Policies being useful; idk.)
That is 12 progress. 3+6 for the Level1 + Level2 in one city, and another 3 for the second city's marketplace.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Spiritbonded doesn't cost Martial. I think Warships is something we can't afford to think about with next turn's actions; we'll have to see what the midturn looks like.
- Location
- Canada
Our martial is too low and I shudder what the effects of staying at low martial for prolonged periods of time will do to us. Better to have it high and be able to drain it for stats then keeping it low that our King fears our enemies are aware espeically if we are loaning out our last two mercenary companies.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Oh I want to generate Martial, I just don't think Warships is the argument for doing so. The Warships argument has us going straight back to 2, after all.
- Location
- Canada
The difference is that I want our naval score to sit at 5+ like our traders wanted, not raise it one time and be done with it.
We don't have a choice; we don't have the actions or wealth to raise our martial.
Anyways, integrating Gulvalley helps there; it should raise our martial a decent bit.
Astra Stargazer
Comma Queen
- Location
- In a book, somewhere around here...
[X]BungieONI
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
So it is.
I think the answer to most of our problems is:
More Free Cities
-Each free city generates 1 culture (currently overflows to tech)
-Each free city consumes 1 less econ
-Each free city generates an ai-passive policy, typically focused in areas where we are critically short
--In the last three turns, we've seen them take [City Support, Armament, Skullduggery, Innovation]
-Each free city increases our centralization cap by 1
Converting Lower Valleyhome and Valleyguard will help a lot. But we may want to consider converting Sacred Forest*, as empowering the priests faction may be more appealing than walking our current tight rope.
*We probably would prefer to convert Sacred Forest instead of Stallionpen. Stallionpen also has a lvl 2 temple, and is much further away from our capital.
More Free Cities
-Each free city generates 1 culture (currently overflows to tech)
-Each free city consumes 1 less econ
-Each free city generates an ai-passive policy, typically focused in areas where we are critically short
--In the last three turns, we've seen them take [City Support, Armament, Skullduggery, Innovation]
-Each free city increases our centralization cap by 1
Converting Lower Valleyhome and Valleyguard will help a lot. But we may want to consider converting Sacred Forest*, as empowering the priests faction may be more appealing than walking our current tight rope.
*We probably would prefer to convert Sacred Forest instead of Stallionpen. Stallionpen also has a lvl 2 temple, and is much further away from our capital.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Well, then you should argue for actions that lead to a Golden Age then convince people not to spend many stats in it.
Right now, this means getting to the next midturn without tripping one of the handful of things that lose us 2-3 stability.
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[X] [Art] Sanitation is too important not to entrust to experts! (Several actions gain or increase their Tech costs, +1 Urban Poor power, ???)
[X] [Policy] City Support (2 True Cities have their maintenance paid for each turn)
[X] [Policy] City Support (2 True Cities have their maintenance paid for each turn) x2
[X] [Policy] Special: Vassal Support (+1 Subordinate while active, increases Loyalty while active at less than full subordinates) x1
[X] [Policy] Skullduggery (+1 Intrigue/turn, -2 Diplo)
[X] [Policy] Special: Forestry (+1 Sustainable Forest and -1 Econ Expansion/2 turns)
[X] [HK] Offer to let them buy the Banner Company contracts
-[X] [HK] Show goodwill (Pay upkeep costs yourself but gain Diplomacy instead for duration of hire)
[X] [Policy] City Support (2 True Cities have their maintenance paid for each turn)
[X] [Policy] City Support (2 True Cities have their maintenance paid for each turn) x2
[X] [Policy] Special: Vassal Support (+1 Subordinate while active, increases Loyalty while active at less than full subordinates) x1
[X] [Policy] Skullduggery (+1 Intrigue/turn, -2 Diplo)
[X] [Policy] Special: Forestry (+1 Sustainable Forest and -1 Econ Expansion/2 turns)
[X] [HK] Offer to let them buy the Banner Company contracts
-[X] [HK] Show goodwill (Pay upkeep costs yourself but gain Diplomacy instead for duration of hire)
What happens when they decide to build Block Housing? Most of those Free Cities will use their own policies to start it. Right now, it's not a concern, but it will be in the future after we finish the Dam and Canal. We need to be very careful with our level of urbanization. We're currently strangling ourselves due to lack of available resources and so many competing obligations.
- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X][Art] Sanitation is too important not to entrust to experts! (Several actions gain or increase their Tech costs, +1 Urban Poor power, ???)
[X][Policy] Skullduggery (+1 Intrigue/turn, -2 Diplo)
[X][Policy] City Support (2 True Cities have their maintenance paid for each turn)
[X][Policy] Diplomacy (+1 Diplo/turn)
[X][Policy] Special: Forestry (+1 Sustainable Forest and -1 Econ Expansion/2 turns)
[X][Policy] Special: Vassal Support (+1 Subordinate while active, increases Loyalty while active at less than full subordinates)
[X][HK] Offer to let them buy the Banner Company contracts
-[X][HK] Show goodwill (Pay upkeep costs yourself but gain Diplomacy instead for duration of hire)
Basically the winning vote at the moment, but I like the winning vote so I'm going for it. I don't think we have the time or resources to fully/properly deal with the Half-Exile abuse right now while I don't want any Infrastructure policies.
As for the HK, I feel that a gesture of goodwill is more useful and just generally better than any cunning plans to backstab the local anti-Ymaryn intrigue masters.
[X][Policy] Skullduggery (+1 Intrigue/turn, -2 Diplo)
[X][Policy] City Support (2 True Cities have their maintenance paid for each turn)
[X][Policy] Diplomacy (+1 Diplo/turn)
[X][Policy] Special: Forestry (+1 Sustainable Forest and -1 Econ Expansion/2 turns)
[X][Policy] Special: Vassal Support (+1 Subordinate while active, increases Loyalty while active at less than full subordinates)
[X][HK] Offer to let them buy the Banner Company contracts
-[X][HK] Show goodwill (Pay upkeep costs yourself but gain Diplomacy instead for duration of hire)
Basically the winning vote at the moment, but I like the winning vote so I'm going for it. I don't think we have the time or resources to fully/properly deal with the Half-Exile abuse right now while I don't want any Infrastructure policies.
As for the HK, I feel that a gesture of goodwill is more useful and just generally better than any cunning plans to backstab the local anti-Ymaryn intrigue masters.
- Location
- Canada
We always have a choice and we should make it a goal rather then forgetting about it which is the feeling I'm getting from the thread. Vote for armament policy if you think we'll never get the time or actions for it. However we can't keep it low without risking invasion and/or our people losing important martial traditions.
I despise golden ages because people do everything to preserve it rather then solve our underlying critical problems.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Well, they give a lot of Wealth income, which is what we need if we're going to build up a navy.
Otherwise... just wait for the Grand Bazaar, and try to ensure we complete that quest, and hopefully it'll be easier at that point.
FYI, Sacred Forest also has a lvl 2 temple, though I don't think that changes our conclusions.
We don't know that, or have any reason to strongly suspect that. Free Cities do stuff that they need - and unless they have a bunch of labor-intensive industry, it is unclear that they will need it.
Not that we know that they WON'T need them. Just saying that it isn't a sure thing one way or another.
(By the way, note that Block Housing only brings up the econ upkeep of Free Cities to what it was when they were True Cities. Note also that it gives us +.5 wealth per turn once those cities have Markets, and unlocks whatever nice stuff Lvl2 Markets gives.
- Location
- Canada
That still doesn't mean we can't raise up our martial to a nice respectable level and increase our naval as time goes on. I'm not advocating for a rush of turns where we do nothing but raise our naval as if we are on a timer but setting a goal and working towards it. I been arguing for this strategy for God knows how long now and our roads are still terrible and our defences haven't gotten to the level they need to combat the nomad hordes that will hit us in the future.
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Armament policy has crap mechanical effects, like the other "basic" policies. If you want to take them, don't take them for the negligible martial they provide; take them for the narrative effects they provide.
Okay then; propose a specific change we should make for this.
I know you like Armament Policy, but that is almost certainly not going to happen. Other than that, what specific actions do you want us to take to raise our army and navy to respectable levels? What do you want us to give up for that? Make sure that your answer doesn't put us over our wealth limit (which is 4 for next turn).
It is easy to criticize. Why don't you propose a solution?