- Location
- Huezil
Let me ask one thing... we and Western Ymarin are the Vampires of the Area... so let's see a victim happens and both of us have good stability... so the victim will be sucked by both?
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Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
@Academia Nut
As for clarifying past weirdness...just how did the Hathatyn dissolve into a Heroic Age anyways?
As for clarifying past weirdness...just how did the Hathatyn dissolve into a Heroic Age anyways?
- Location
- Simi Valley, CA, United States
So, well that happened.
[X] [PiA] Western Ymaryn (Possibly Pioneering Spirit)
I think it's imperative that we do this. You know all the points that were made about the Stallion tribes and keeping them culturally similar? That applies to the Western Ymaryn as well. We want to keep up our ties and maybe even one day bring them back into the fold, otherwise we will have a Civil War on our hands.
[X] [PiA] Western Ymaryn (Possibly Pioneering Spirit)
I think it's imperative that we do this. You know all the points that were made about the Stallion tribes and keeping them culturally similar? That applies to the Western Ymaryn as well. We want to keep up our ties and maybe even one day bring them back into the fold, otherwise we will have a Civil War on our hands.
- Location
- Austria
It shouldn't? Wasn't liquidity crisis one part of OTL Bronze Age collapse? If so, it's about right on schedule.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Only one real target, but yes. You would share potential triggers though, so you would need 6 stability loss to produce 3 potential trigger events for reach of you.
Weak kings unable to maintain a monopoly of force.
Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Analysis and Diffcheckers -- "Famine Stalks"
Diff Checker (Civ Sheet)
Diff Checker (Civ Sheet BBCode)
Edit: 10/14: updated diffs, added title so this is searchable.
Ugh, i have missed some bad times for the People it seems :/ No promises on getting any analyses up any time soon, or an update to the infrastructure tracker...i think @PrimalShadow and others took over the math duties at least?
Have some diffs and highlights, and at the very least i'll hopefully remember to add in the search-worthy titles to this and the post with diffs for last update...
Highlights:
-Lots of trade changes that are just the trelli getting struck out. @Academia Nut missed Fine Dye and Gold on that front, just as a super minor thing i just noticed
-The khemetri started producing glass just in time for the trelli to self destruct and remove their trade power from our markets
-Poppies have been added as a trade good, with us at significant, and the khemetri 1. struck out for now and 2. not bold even then which is odd to me
-Western Wall, Greenshore, and tinriver all lost 1 loyalty. Redbanner lost 2 effectiveness
-Ironworks (and/or innovation rolls) gave us Early Blast Furnaces as a metallurgy tech, Butted Maille as armor tech, and evolved Gastraphetes tech to "Early Light Crossbows.
-The dole (or maybe something else?) evolved Urban Councils as a social concept
Also one question @Academia Nut what sort of reforms would we be doing if we took the Subordinate reform option for the GA?
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Random Member
Gardener of Human Happiness
- Location
- Behind You
That situation sounds strangely familiar, but I can't put my finger on it. Hmm.
- Location
- United States
[X] [Reform] Begin Harmysyn Reforms Event Chain
Not liking the idea of arming the poor en masse, and then threatening to starve them if they don't fight.
That sounds like the quickest way to get a rebellion imaginable.
Letting Patrician Daughters become officers will give us a larger pool of officers, and extend women in the military beyond just "heroes and Gods"
[X] [Reform] Begin Both (-1 Stability, Both Events Started, ???)
I can see the appeal in doing both, and I admit this is pure shiny chasing.
[X] [Iron] Upgrade Iron Blooded to Steel Blooded
We always need more econ, and econ production is what originally put us so far ahead of our peers, so we should continue pressing that advantage.
[X] [PiA] Freehills (Social Value)
Fuck the Traders, and Fuck having our religion schism, so I'm going to go with hopefully getting some democratic values, or if nothing else some "stop being such ginormous assholes" values.
[X] [GA] Subordinate reform (-10 Prestige)
With the creation of a successful Ymaryn breakaway state, I'm worried that our subordinates might start getting ideas and try to break away too.
Western Wall, for example, only has 3 loyalty right now, and would likely join the Western Ymaryn if they break away from us.
It might also help with making our vassals more culturally homogeneous, or increase the power of vassal support or something similar.
Not liking the idea of arming the poor en masse, and then threatening to starve them if they don't fight.
That sounds like the quickest way to get a rebellion imaginable.
Letting Patrician Daughters become officers will give us a larger pool of officers, and extend women in the military beyond just "heroes and Gods"
[X] [Reform] Begin Both (-1 Stability, Both Events Started, ???)
I can see the appeal in doing both, and I admit this is pure shiny chasing.
[X] [Iron] Upgrade Iron Blooded to Steel Blooded
We always need more econ, and econ production is what originally put us so far ahead of our peers, so we should continue pressing that advantage.
[X] [PiA] Freehills (Social Value)
Fuck the Traders, and Fuck having our religion schism, so I'm going to go with hopefully getting some democratic values, or if nothing else some "stop being such ginormous assholes" values.
[X] [GA] Subordinate reform (-10 Prestige)
With the creation of a successful Ymaryn breakaway state, I'm worried that our subordinates might start getting ideas and try to break away too.
Western Wall, for example, only has 3 loyalty right now, and would likely join the Western Ymaryn if they break away from us.
It might also help with making our vassals more culturally homogeneous, or increase the power of vassal support or something similar.
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It's mostly an Iron Age/Classical Era problem. Bronze Age didn't have enough dudes to seriously run out of coin regionally, not at their level of agricultural efficiency. It's why Rome debased their coins to nothing....to pay for large standing armies.
The problem here is that the Trelli saw Ymaryn using mercenaries, realized it was freaking awesome for them and then went ballsdeep adopting them along with currency, vassalizing the Saffron Isles and inventing Chattel Slavery to pay for it. Remember when we developed Iron Age Law to cope with the early problems of this?
But does the other alternatives actually solve anything that we need to deal with now?
Subordinate reform doesn't help our crises I think.
If there is only 1 Stab loss, who will get the trigger?
Dice roll? Nearest proximity wins?
- Location
- Austria
Rome's debasement spree was also caused by them *yearly* sending literally millions of cectercii to China, in exchange for silk and stuff. Outflow of precious metals was kind of silly in late empire.
Arming the poor as your line infantry actually worked very well for ending the problem of out of control military, but creating female commissioned officers right now....actually makes the crisis worse, because you've added another caste which is motivated to invade other people to gain social status.
I mean sure, if you wanted the Patricians to join the Traders and Yeomen in going war-crazy....
Which happened to the Trelli because the Ymaryn more or less only traded for precious metal inflow.
Leading option is voting against dealing with that problem anyways. So I guess we'd be finding out if we don't break the Yeomen's political power entirely.
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[X] [Reform] Begin Myranyn Reforms Event Chain
[X] [Iron] Upgrade Iron Blooded to Steel Blooded
[X] [PiA] Freehills (Social Value)
[X] [GA] Subordinate reform (-10 Prestige)
Question: Should we try and eat parts of Txcolla to cover the econ costs?
With decent irrigation, the lowlands produce more for Expand Econ than our hills. There is also the one-time bonus Econ from eating chunks of our subordinates.
So long term we will need the Dam in the lowlands and hope for the best.
[X] [Iron] Upgrade Iron Blooded to Steel Blooded
[X] [PiA] Freehills (Social Value)
[X] [GA] Subordinate reform (-10 Prestige)
Question: Should we try and eat parts of Txcolla to cover the econ costs?
With decent irrigation, the lowlands produce more for Expand Econ than our hills. There is also the one-time bonus Econ from eating chunks of our subordinates.
So long term we will need the Dam in the lowlands and hope for the best.
It'd raise Martial, lower Centralization and add more conquest happy people from a more aggressive culture into the core so...probably not the cure.
Part of the Second Sons crisis is our subordinates being too far for the king to properly influence. This is what is driving "civil war" as a solution to the crisis, after all. Subordinate reform stands to fix it or at least make it less of a problem.
Also. The update said that "With the king and guilds and traders screwing up so badly, there were many that whispered that the Western People offered a viable alternative, especially if the western colonies broke off and joined them." And lo-and-behold, the Western Wall is going down in loyalty, down to 3 Loyalty and 3 Dependency right now.
Do you see how this might be an urgent problem, and how subordinate reform is useful in resolving it?
Eat Gulvalley. We need to either take Trelli or build the canal to the Khemetri in order to maintain our trade empire.
Given how much trade we do, we need to consider this going forward. I'm sure it'll fit in there between the military and religious reformation, Second Sons crisis and perpetual lack of Econ.
We don't actually do that much trade. Right now, we are getting what, 3 Wealth/turn from trade? I am much more worried bout our other problems.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
@Academia Nut, can you give us any indication what the subordinate reform will actually do, or is it intentionally a "good things" mystery box?
We have been on Balanced for the last two turns.
We have been on Balanced for the last two turns.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I have corrected that mistake. You have been on balanced for two turns.
"Good things" mystery box.
Random Member
Gardener of Human Happiness
- Location
- Behind You
Wait, are we talking about good things or "good things"?
Reforms usually address an issue which had been lingering but nobody knew how to solve. Usually important issues adding to overall stress levels. i.e. right now we had the option to reform our military structure to restore state monopoly on force or the option to reform our military structure to give more individuals access to military(and thus political) power.
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- Pronouns
- They/Them
[X] [Iron] Upgrade Iron Blooded to Steel Blooded
[X] [GA] Subordinate reform (-10 Prestige)
[X] [Reform] Begin Both (-1 Stability, Both Events Started, ???)
[X] [PiA] Harmurri (Something trade related maybe [Not Center of Trade related])
Screw it, maximum shiny things mode. We won't die from -1 Stability, and we have the midturn coming up for enforce justice and econ expansion. And that mystery box tempts and taunts me.
[X] [GA] Subordinate reform (-10 Prestige)
[X] [Reform] Begin Both (-1 Stability, Both Events Started, ???)
[X] [PiA] Harmurri (Something trade related maybe [Not Center of Trade related])
Screw it, maximum shiny things mode. We won't die from -1 Stability, and we have the midturn coming up for enforce justice and econ expansion. And that mystery box tempts and taunts me.