-Snip-
The answer to Sayaka wanting to be useful is "don't you realize I'm shamelessly using you already, constantly? I'm building a giant coalition of magical girls, and you're the only magical girl I know and trust who can actually talk to other magical girls effectively and not have a nervous breakdown. You're irreplacable in the plan. Sorry, I thought you knew. That's why I keep asking you to meet up with magical girls I'm trying to recruit."


Was there no support for adding something on this topic? It seems like it could provoke an interesting response , and its a concrete and immediate way of solving her "how do I help, your ideas are too crazy" issue while also showing a glimpse of weakness like some wanted?

Still like Katzuki's vote though, in any case.
 
I'm debating whether to put them in or out. "It'd mean the world to mami" has... A lot of weight. That this is something truly valuable to us. But... As people say, it's risky. The reconcile bit can go for sure...

Ah. Maybe we can just... Say it's a big deal, and not why...

Oh I like that idea.

[X] You were slow to decide on this, but...
-[X] Brief Sayaka on the broad strokes of the Kyouko issue. Scarce hunting, mental/emotional problems left unspecified because privacy.
[X] We stay in Kyouko's tolerance by not pushing things too much. But somebody has to push things, or she'll never change... and she needs to change. This is the second motive for the training with Kyouko. It's kind of a really big deal.
---[X] yes Sayaka is the right choice for this, best way to do it is probably to loudly be Sayaka.
-[X] Also, if she's looking for something to work while sore from training, you'd suggest clones. Manpower... er, Megucapower? is valuable.
[X] Sayaka hugs? Tell Blueberry she's awesome.
[X] Transform stress into happiness through mumihugs.
[X] Karaoke!
-[X] Have a duet with Mami.
I would get rid of "this is the second motive for the training with Kyouko". We don't want to make it seem like we're trying to manipulate Kyouko. We can keep the "it's kind of a really big deal", because it is, but without the "second motive" part, it makes it feel like we're asking her to try something we thought of after the fact, rather than a planned manipulation.
 
You're right, but not in the Kyouko part, it would still be manipulative towards her (which doesn't mean we shouldn't try to help her); but we should probably drop that line because it makes it sound like we were manipulating Sayaka to do that, then again, she may not mind, I mean we're telling her now aren't we?
 
Was there no support for adding something on this topic? It seems like it could provoke an interesting response , and its a concrete and immediate way of solving her "how do I help, your ideas are too crazy" issue while also showing a glimpse of weakness like some wanted?

Still like Katzuki's vote though, in any case.
Not sure that I like the phrasing of it being "all according to plan." Maybe something more casual, like asking for general help with magical girl negotiations/therapy while talking up her personality advantages for those (e.g. fair, just, stubborn, trustworthy, friendly) as well as her power advantage, since her power's perfect for kicking the ass of any magical girl who starts being a jerk, since she can always hard counter ("It's like RPG weaknesses. If there's a girl with plant powers, you just light the plants on fire. If she has fire power, you could just cover the flames in water.").
 
uhh... thinking about it, the next time Sayaka says something about her not helping enough, we tell her that, besides fighting, and we aren't really planning on being on a fight anytime soon, Mami and Homura don't do much either (well, Homura stalks Madoka, but we cannot tell her that).

See I've considered this and uh... Not a fan because going there is beyond the point. We've helped Sayaka... part of the thing is, Mami and Homura may not do too much day to day but when things happen they go ham. Oriko. The Sendai conflict. Etcetera.

You're right that Sayaka is hugely useful for just being Seikyu-HONNAH-Samurai-Angeru-of-social. I'm... leaning towards not going into full detail on that tho, just yet. Let's see if we can get mileage out of this specific thing first, and let's see if we can keep this convo short enough to not worry Mumi.


Nyan~

Conveniently, Sabrina has already been throwing Sayaka at every Magical Girl social situation. Need to diplomacy Kyouko? Throw Sayaka at the problem. Meeting up with Nadia? Bring Sayaka. Checking in on the Touhou girls? Get Sayaka to come with and smooth things over.

The answer to Sayaka wanting to be useful is "don't you realize I'm shamelessly using you already, constantly? I'm building a giant coalition of magical girls, and you're the only magical girl I know and trust who can actually talk to other magical girls effectively and not have a nervous breakdown. You're irreplacable in the plan. Sorry, I thought you knew. That's why I keep asking you to meet up with magical girls I'm trying to recruit."

Good point, too much at wrong time. We need to initiate with that instead of transitioning into it lol. Also... in the interest of telling the truth, this is something we hadn't been planning on. She just kind of made it work because she's a boss. More evidence for it will accrue over time I think, too.

I would get rid of "this is the second motive for the training with Kyouko". We don't want to make it seem like we're trying to manipulate Kyouko. We can keep the "it's kind of a really big deal", because it is, but without the "second motive" part, it makes it feel like we're asking her to try something we thought of after the fact, rather than a planned manipulation.

You're right, but not in the Kyouko part, it would still be manipulative towards her (which doesn't mean we shouldn't try to help her); but we should probably drop that line because it makes it sound like we were manipulating Sayaka to do that, then again, she may not mind, I mean we're telling her now aren't we?

I mean, the line sounds bad due to subtext of the words used, yeah. But... "This is the second reason why we're having her train with Kyouko."

I don't think there's actually a problem there. I can alter the wording to that, though, given how many free words we have...



[X] You were slow to decide on this, but...
-[X] Brief Sayaka on the broad strokes of the Kyouko issue. Scarce hunting, mental/emotional problems left unspecified because privacy.
[X] We stay in Kyouko's tolerance by not pushing things too much. But somebody has to push things, or she'll never change... and she needs to change. This is the second reason we're having her train with Kyouko. It's kind of a really big deal.
---[X] yes Sayaka is the right choice for this, best way to do it is probably to loudly be Sayaka.
-[X] Also, if she's looking for something to work while sore from training, you'd suggest clones. Manpower... er, Megucapower? is valuable.
[X] Sayaka hugs? Tell Blueberry she's awesome.
[X] Transform stress into happiness through mumihugs.
[X] Karaoke!
-[X] Have a duet with Mami.
 
wait, did I missunderstand you or you don't know the word limit is 200 words now? (which doesn't meant we necessarly have to use them all, sometimes is better not to say unnecessarly things)

also: if you really think Sayaka wouldn't like us being manipulative towards Kyouko, we could always ask her if she has any idea how to help Kyouko without being "manipulative" and without her telling us to fuck off.

EDIT: thought, she may not be able to contribute much without context... right, sorry.
 
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wait, did I missunderstand you or you don't know the word limit is 200 words now? (which doesn't meant we necessarly have to use them all, sometimes is better not to say unnecessarly things)

also: if you really think Sayaka wouldn't like us being manipulative towards Kyouko, we could always ask her if she has any idea how to help Kyouko without being "manipulative" and without her telling us to fuck off.

EDIT: thought, she may not be able to contribute much without context... right, sorry.

Bwah?
 
I feel that this is the wrong approach to take.

We already tried telling Sayaka about all the grand plans we have for her, and her response was decidedly "meh."

Sayaka snorts, but there's an amused little quirk of her lips now. "You're overselling it."
"I guess," Sayaka says half-heartedly. "It's just... hard to believe."
Sayaka blows out a gusty breath. "OK, then," she says. "I'll... try and believe it."
"I guess," Sayaka agrees, wrapping her arms around her knees and looking away.

Telling her more ways we intend to use her for our purposes isn't going to have any more success. We need to stop treating her like a lackey and start treating her like a friend, and respect her right to make her own decisions.

She's flat out told us that her low self-esteem and feelings of inadequacy aren't about us not having uses for her, but feeling like she's not good enough to fight alongside us.

"You are standing with me, with us," you say, tilting your head to grin at her.

"Doesn't feel like it," Sayaka mutters.
Sayaka shrugs. "I... I suppose," she says. "It makes me feel like I'm... a burden, you know? I can't fight... I can't do anything without having someone there to babysit me."
Sayaka makes an annoyed sound. "Become... become someone who isn't a burden, I suppose."


I really feel that our response needs to tell her that we don't spend so much time worrying about her because we think she's inadequate, but because we care about her. Maybe even explain to her that we worry because she's too brave, and we're afraid that her hot-blooded shounen-ness is going to get her into a dangerous situation, and what we've been trying to teach her with these last few training sessions is caution. But even if not that, we need to reassure her that she's good enough to fight with us, because that's what she wants more than anything.

I also feel that it's important that Sabrina show some humanity and vulnerability instead of playing the mastermind, so that Sayaka can start seeing her as an equal instead of as some ideal that's impossible for her to measure up to. Let her know that it's okay to not be perfect.
 
Hunh, Sudden worrying thought: Is it possible that getting Sayaka to focus on clones might make it look to Kyouko like she's training her replacement?
 
Sayaka doesn't want to be sidelined with a solo project, she wants to fight.
Having a solo project doesn't mean being sidelined, and the "sidelined" absolutely is the part of your statement she would take issue with. I'm still voting for you because of the climbing down off the pedestal, but it took me so long to decide to do so because of your insistence on this.
 
I'm still voting for you because of the climbing down off the pedestal, but it took me so long to decide to do so because of your insistence on this.
Can you be a little more specific? 'Cause I'm not following you here. Insistence on what? That Sayaka wants to fight? Because she said as much herself...
"She... I dunno," Sayaka says. "I know you said that fighting isn't everything, but... ugh. I made my Wish so I could stand with you, you know?"
"It makes me feel like I'm... a burden, you know? I can't fight... I can't do anything without having someone there to babysit me."
...and listing off a bunch of non-combat tasks she could undertake instead didn't seem to impress her last update.


Is it that you feel that Sayaka shouldn't fight? Because I don't think she should fight alone--I don't think anybody should--but I don't see any reason she shouldn't fight. She's more than competent enough to be an asset. We didn't have her do those training matches on the weekend because we thought she was rubbish. We did it because we were afraid she was reckless.
 
and listing off a bunch of non-combat tasks she could undertake instead didn't seem to impress her last update.
Because they were all very speculative. She's not Goku, she doesn't fight for its own sake. Her desire to fight comes from wanting to be a hero and to contribute to her friends, and fighting is the only way to do those things that she's convinced is realistic.
 
Her desire to fight comes from wanting to be a hero and to contribute to her friends, and fighting is the only way to do those things that she's convinced is realistic.
Yes, because that's what she imagines when she thinks of being a hero: facing off against the monsters and bad guys to protect people. That's how most teenagers think about heroism, rather than in terms of tackling complex social issues.

And if her friends are going towards the danger, then she wants to be going with them. She wants to stand at their side, not be left behind. That's also an extremely common and human attitude to have.

And she's flat out told us that her insecurities are because all these sparring matches have made her think that she's useless in a fight.
 
You know, there might be some value in having her square off with someone who isn't a crazy combat monster soon.

Like, part of the problem is that she's comparing herself to Mami, Kyouko, Homura, and Sabrina the Teenage Witch. All of whome are high-end combat monsters, or have powers that let them no-sell combat. We've got the Asunaro girls around now, and they're probably not all high-class combat monsters, and we've got the two refugees incoming, and they might not be.

Perhaps part of the solution is to get Sayaka some sparring time with someone who isn't a 1%er, and let her see that she's not actually an anchor.
 
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