Yes, because that's what she imagines when she thinks of being a hero: facing off against the monsters and bad guys to protect people. That's how most teenagers think about heroism, rather than in terms of tackling complex social issues.
And when we half-ass it we come across like this, but that doesn't mean I'm on board with retreating to zero ass.
Let the blueberry fight!She can handle a witch!
She wants to stand with us. I don't think fighting on her own is the answer to that, and we're already planning to include her in all future witch hunts.
 
The problem is that she's a Level 10 Bard in a party of a Level 20 Sorceress, Level 25 Archer, and Level 23 Spellsword with a focus in stopping time and shooting fuckers with automatic weaponry.

When she's with us, she's the only one specialized towards melee... But nobody gets into melee because everyone is shredded long before they come into contact with us.

Sayaka could be rational about it and accept herself as a last line of defense that preferably is never called into action but since she's not we either have to deflect her ambitions elsewhere or face the fact that, compared to us, she kinda is a shrimp. The problem with hanging out around badasses is you're forced to be a badass yourself and Sayaka simply hasn't had the time to get on our level yet.
 
And when we half-ass it we come across like this, but that doesn't mean I'm on board with retreating to zero ass.
Convincing her that there could be more value in her non-combat contributions is going to take more than a single conversation. We literally just tried and failed.

And even if she does come to believe it, it's not going to make it any easier for her to see her friends going off to face the peril while she's held back.

Anyway, my vote doesn't tell her that fighting is all that matters or that she should go try to solo a witch or anything like that. It just acknowledges that she's doing pretty good at it and explains that we're not worrying about her so much or making her do all this extra training because we think she's inept, but because we care about her. That way she can let go of this misconception she's developed that she's shit at the one thing she most wanted to do, which she flat out told us is what's bothering her.
 
So Sayaka is probably thinking about going off and hunting on her own. Huh.

Add

[ ] If she feels like going off hunting her own, magical Clones would make for greath scouts, right?

?
 
What did she say that gave you that impression? :???:

Mind you, if she keeps feeling like we think she's a "burden" in combat, she might start thinking that she has to do something like that to prove herself.
Nothing in particular, but yes, she's Sayaka, so she might do as Sayaka does.

At the very least the idea should have passed by her head.

Isn't this what metaknowledge is good for? :p
 
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Nothing in particular, but yes, she's Sayaka, so she might do as Sayaka does.

At the very least the idea should have passed by her head.

Isn't this what metaknowledge is good for? :p
All the more reason to nip this insecurity problem in the bud before she does something reckless to try to prove herself.
 
Okay, @The Narrator:

[x] Whether she believes it or not, she's doing a great job, especially for only having done it for a week. She's giving a good fight to people who have been doing this for years. She's already better in melee than us; we had to hire one of the best melee fighters in the region to teach her. We believe in her and what she can achieve.

This is great, except we did that already.

"You've been a magical girl for less time than I have. Yeah, you need support. That's in no way a mark against you," you say, shaking your head. "And Mami and Homura, well... You're comparing yourself to some of the best magical girls on the planet. They're possibly among the best to have ever lived. And Sayaka?"

You wait for her to look at you before continuing. "It's only a matter of practice before you match up. Yes, I won't deny, you need practice and support right now. But that's because your power needs time to ramp up. You need the experience, and you need to gather powers and experiment. Once you do..."

A rueful shake of your hand. "Sayaka, with your Wish, I expect you to exceed me someday. Someday soon, really."

"Yeah, right," Sayaka says, shaking her head.

[x] We worry about her a lot, not because she's not strong but because we care. We worry about everyone. We worry about Homura and Kyouko, too. Mami's the greatest, but we worry about her the most of all. We're scared, all the time. Scared of losing the people we love. Magical girls, no matter how strong, are all so fragile, deep down. We can't bear to lose anyone. This is the only family we've ever known.

Uhm... This actually reinforces the idea that she's a burden. Her response to this is "WELL YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT ME! REGARDLESS OF WHATEVER OTHER FACTORS!"

[x] If she seems to respond positively:

Which she won't, see above

-[x] There's going to be a lot of new magical girls coming to town soon. We're going to be depending on her. Because we know that she's someone we can depend on, someone with a good heart. We think she's amazing.

Standard, okay.

Soooo... yeah no.
 
So. Sayaka Wished so that she could help us fight Witches and help people. You know, be a Magical Girl.

We don't need help fighting Witches.

We're too scared for her to send her off on her own to fight Witches, apparently.

We don't need Grief Seeds. No one around us does.

Basically, Sayaka can be helpful in some ways, but not in the way she actually wanted to be helpful.

So, two options:

We keep trying to sell her on her potential to be useful someday. She doesn't buy it, but hopefully plays along.

We have her go Familiar hunting. Between Clones and a Clear Seed, she can do more to actually protect people in the immediate than anyone besides Homura, and Time Stop is too hard on Homura's health to be used for daily, city-wide Familiar clean ups.

So, yeah. Let's send her hunting later. It'll put her to immediate use and make her feel good about herself, and Clones minimize the risk. She always can call for a rescue via Time Stop if need be.
 
Why is Sayakasocial so hard? At this rate we'll have Madoka swearing off wishing before we can convince Sayaka she's worth more than two pence and a banana!
 
Ok I am officially a crazy person. (AKA I have just finished reading all 4952 pages of the thread).

I'll decide who to vote for in a bit.
 
So, yeah. Let's send her hunting later. It'll put her to immediate use and make her feel good about herself, and Clones minimize the risk. She always can call for a rescue via Time Stop if need be.

This is my perspective. Whether it's intelligent is debateable.

Actually... hell we could sell it that way. "Clones = city cleanup."
 
We have her go Familiar hunting. Between Clones and a Clear Seed, she can do more to actually protect people in the immediate than anyone besides Homura, and Time Stop is too hard on Homura's health to be used for daily, city-wide Familiar clean ups.

So, yeah. Let's send her hunting later. It'll put her to immediate use and make her feel good about herself, and Clones minimize the risk. She always can call for a rescue via Time Stop if need be.
I'll support this. It's exactly what I mean with 'Sayaka's gonna run off to hunt on her own'.

She can clean up Familiars, use Clones as scouts when she finds a Barrier, kill it herself if it's a Familiar, call for backup if it's a Witch.
 
When she's with us, she's the only one specialized towards melee... But nobody gets into melee because everyone is shredded long before they come into contact with us.
Clearly we need to train Sayaka in the art of distance fighting. She can shoot those swords, right? Make a cluster of small swords, and fire flechette shotgun blasts.
 
Something else I noticed while going through the thread:

Japan looks oddly crowded on the map, more cities than there ought to be. There's less farmland than you'd expect, and out of curiosity, you follow that thread of thought. It looks like hydroponics cultivation is far more commonplace than you remember, which would explain how the country supplies itself. Japan's a net exporter of high-tech goods, as expected.

You follow that thread of thought, searching for a world map. Arab Spring happened -is happening- and you know that it started with the Tusinian Revolution. It happened, and things spun out of control, as you remember.

The world doesn't look too different. There are more people, and more events, than you remember, but the broad strokes remain. The major countries all exist with the more or less the same borders from your memory, though you're not quite sure about the Caucasus region.

Which is... strange. Shouldn't the effect of magical girls be more potent? More visible? You'd almost have expected extra wars, or perhaps a lack thereof from the effect of Wishes. But then...

You know Cleopatra was a magical girl - in and of itself strange, but she was one of the magical girls Madokami collected. And you know Jeanne d'Arc was a magical girl, too. There must, then, have been some degree of convergence to history, perhaps the effect of the Incubators concealing things and smoothing out the bigger ripples.

It doesn't fully make sense, and you suspect only one being would give you the kind of answers you want on that, but talking to Kyuubey about another world you remember? You've seen what lies down that path.

... well, maybe two beings. Madokami might know, but you can't exactly talk to her. Maybe she'd answer prayers from you?

Hmm. You don't see anything major that might trip you up. The Olympics still happen, the Allies still won the Second World War and precipitated right into the Cold war, but were still responsible for Japan's post-war economic boom. China's Great Leap Forward happened... essentially as expected.

Ok so we have absolutely confirmed knowledge that Sabrina sees our world not only as some vague notion of the way the world should be or inaccurate meta-knowledge or what is public knowledge but an actual separate world.

So the next question is, why does Madoka's wish deem it necessary to give Sabrina knowledge of what a world with (presumably) no incubator influence looks like? The only answer I can think of is that we need the ability to no sell Kyubey's "you'd be in caves without us" line of reasoning.
 
Uhm... This actually reinforces the idea that she's a burden. Her response to this is "WELL YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT ME! REGARDLESS OF WHATEVER OTHER FACTORS!"
Still, some attempt to climb down off the pedestal would be nice, since if I understood the show correctly putting people up on them was one of her problems in canon.
 
[Q] And if you go on a romantic Familiar killing trek around Mitakihara with Kyouko, hey, that's no skin off my back, right?

"... Romantic?"

"... Ignore I said that."

"..."

 
Uhm... This actually reinforces the idea that she's a burden. Her response to this is "WELL YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT ME! REGARDLESS OF WHATEVER OTHER FACTORS!"
No, it's specifically telling her that we're not worrying about her because she's a burden or inept, but because we worry about everybody by default, even the super-badass heroes that she looks up to. That it's normal for friends worry about each other and it's not a judgment against her like she's been interpreting it.

It also shows some humanity and vulnerability so that she can stop looking up to us as some impossible ideal. Trying to seem perfect all the time is how Mami turned herself into such a bundle of neuroses. Let's not encourage Sayaka to do the same.


EDIT: The alternative is to just basically to do more of what we did last update. It didn't work last time, and it won't work this time.
 
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