FORTHEYOLOZ
Morgana-sama!!!
- Location
- Omega Hell
[X] Onmur
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
- Start date
-
- Tags
- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
- Location
- Illinois
Temporary vote. Consider objectives + actions, not wording, plox. Still thinking. Explaining what we're trying with koko + saya training is a good first step though -- something she's already doing for us and we kinda just didnt tell her.
[X] Sigh. Lean back and swear. Stop the plane.
-[X] Between the payments we're fronting, the training, the group hunts, the being ferried around on a grief platform... From her point of view, it must feel like nothing's changed, huh? She's still being taken care of, paid for, protected... And we don't see it, because all we see is "Sayaka is going to be incredible once things happen" and "who cares about 90k yen, there's more where that came from."
-[X] cleanse pls
-[X] Some of this is going to be repetitive and stuff she probably already knows but it has to be said.
-[X] Homura and Mami have simple, overriding issues.
--[X] Homura wants WPN dead, which is hard because it could probably walk off a nuke. Training directly helps with that.
--[X] Mami needs -- not wants, needs -- stable friends. The extent of her trauma is very, very ugly, and she has been training people just for the companionship for a long time.
-[X] You, however, have a vast array of problems social and physical and a tendency to over-compartmentalize information, or just outright not think to pass things on, or...
--[X] That isn't as bad as it sounds. Really. But, for instance, you're rather hoping that exposing Kyouko to Sayaka will be good for Kyouko, who has a ton of issues you're not sure if you should talk about because privacy, and who you're really hoping to bring around in part because a reconciliation there would do wonders for Mami. Not that you can tell Kyouko that -- she'd never talk to you again.
---[X] If she tells Kyouko you said that, you'll bop her, you swear. And yes, you are using training partly as an excuse to insert blueberry.
[X] Sigh. Lean back and swear. Stop the plane.
-[X] Between the payments we're fronting, the training, the group hunts, the being ferried around on a grief platform... From her point of view, it must feel like nothing's changed, huh? She's still being taken care of, paid for, protected... And we don't see it, because all we see is "Sayaka is going to be incredible once things happen" and "who cares about 90k yen, there's more where that came from."
-[X] cleanse pls
-[X] Some of this is going to be repetitive and stuff she probably already knows but it has to be said.
-[X] Homura and Mami have simple, overriding issues.
--[X] Homura wants WPN dead, which is hard because it could probably walk off a nuke. Training directly helps with that.
--[X] Mami needs -- not wants, needs -- stable friends. The extent of her trauma is very, very ugly, and she has been training people just for the companionship for a long time.
-[X] You, however, have a vast array of problems social and physical and a tendency to over-compartmentalize information, or just outright not think to pass things on, or...
--[X] That isn't as bad as it sounds. Really. But, for instance, you're rather hoping that exposing Kyouko to Sayaka will be good for Kyouko, who has a ton of issues you're not sure if you should talk about because privacy, and who you're really hoping to bring around in part because a reconciliation there would do wonders for Mami. Not that you can tell Kyouko that -- she'd never talk to you again.
---[X] If she tells Kyouko you said that, you'll bop her, you swear. And yes, you are using training partly as an excuse to insert blueberry.
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The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
I don't think Sayaka wished away her soul to become a gardener. She did it to become a hero.
Short lifespans for magical girls are also the norm. We're trying to avoid that.
Even with her broken power, Sabrina has almost gotten in trouble with witches a few times. Remember when she tried taking control of a familiar? If Mami and Homura hadn't been there, she would have been in deep shit.
It's been quite a while since we've gone on a solo witch hunt.
As for Homura, her power may be the OP to end all OPs, but it's got a glaring weakness: physical contact. It can be rendered basically useless by putting her in a full nelson. She got out of that situation when Kyouko did it by basically bluffing her into letting go with a grenade that was actually a flashbang. That wouldn't work on familiars and witches.
IF possible, I'd rather have all witch hunts done by at least two girls, no matter how OP they are.
Karnewarrior
Leastmost of the Hanged Man Arcana
Yeah, I'm not down to do a solo witch hunt ourselves and we're basically a bloodbender as far as they're concerned. We literally control the substance of their bodies and realities.
Sayaka can be as OP as she wants. I don't want anyone to hunt solo from now on. I'd even say 3 girls minimum.
Sayaka can be as OP as she wants. I don't want anyone to hunt solo from now on. I'd even say 3 girls minimum.
SaltyWaffles
I am dissapoint, son
- Pronouns
- He/Him
No, she did it because she felt helpless and useless. She didn't wish to become a hero. She wished that she could "do something". She wants to contribute, to feel like she's not a burden, to feel like she's paying back others what they've done for her. Sure, her desires/goals have evolved a bit since then--she's definitely latched on to our stated goal of improving the lives of magical girls everywhere--but her wish was very clear.
Not...really. Sabrina only tried doing that because she had two veterans spotting for her. The one time she tried anything like that alone, she had already totally defeated the Witch and eliminated all threats, and she took the lesson to heart regardless.
That's not to say that Sabrina is completely and utterly infallible, but her power is perfect for fighting Witches. Any surprise hazard that doesn't appear and attack instantly (or use offensive antimagic or mind control) can be flat-out negated, because they're made of grief. Like, if the ground suddenly becomes quicksand, she can just dissolve the quicksand into grief under her control. If a Witch swings a blade at her, she can dissolve the blade. Even if something manages to grab her, she can just dissolve that too. Notably, even Kirika's antimagic isn't as effective against Witches and grief constructs as Sabrina's power is. It's the closest thing to a hard counter there is.
Funny thing about that: this has more to do with the fact that we consider Witch hunts to be good opportunities for social/team bonding, practicing working together, or ensuring that others have safe hunts. We're also not on our own as much.
Thinking back, all of our solo Witch hunts have been effectively random encounters while traveling to different places on our own. However, we haven't had a random encounter in a while while on our own.
While, yes, ideally, even the most OP of girls shouldn't fight Witches alone if they don't have to, it's worth noting that Homura's sheer experience and caution/vigilance means that she's really unlikely to get caught off-guard with physical contact. She let Kyouko grab her because she knew Kyouko wouldn't hurt her, and because she probably really didn't actually want to shoot Sayaka like that. Much as she claims to not care about her, Sayaka is Madoka's best friend, and the parallels between Sayaka and Madoka are pretty strong--the big difference being that Sayaka is more judgmental about strangers and paranoid than Madoka.
I mean, Homura had plenty of time to shoot Sayaka if she wanted to. But she hesitates because she doesn't really want to.
Script Mak3r
(Verified Sun God) (Verified Feathers)
- Location
- Hell of Blazing Fires
- Pronouns
- She/Her
A suggestion on the subject of SoloSayaHunts: Have meguca (for example, Homu, Mumi, and us) follow Sayaka in the Barriers ready to bail her out if she's in particularly mortal peril, but otherwise she'd be on her own. Should be good training with reduced risks.
- Location
- USA
Definitely the fact that we ended on bringing up the money topic again (seemed like we were getting through to her decently well, and then that)
Seriously? It doesn't matter that he's trash, and it wouldn't matter what sort of horrible person she was chasing after, just because an author known for tormenting and torturing characters said this is what she must have? Quoting canon in a fan-fiction work like this is bad enough as a reason not to change, but this is just ridiculous as hell.
Have we done any testing of increments like that? We know a pretty accurate range for "where a normal grief seed is", that we know is stable. And we know a completely emptied one (after after it refills some) will hungrily eat other gems. But how about bringing it below the default threshold without taking it to the bottom?
Aside from it ending on a reminder of paying Kyouko for this, I do feel that some of how the vote translated into words wasn't the best. It seemed like Firngazen tried to develop and explain the Sayapolice idea like it was a reasonable thought to explain, rather than we way we intended where its proposed as a Meme as much as anything. Aside from Sayaka seeming to be the most likely in the group to get and appreciate references/memes like that, I think a blunt and confusing exchange like "How would you like to be the Police? --- What, you mean be a police officer? --- No, I mean be the police. The. All of it at once." where she essentially develops the idea herself in trying to parse our nonsense would have had her accept it better. It at least partially comes from her and skates on sillyness, rather than being a serious but extreme suggestion she dismisses the way people feared weather control would be (its too abstract/large and she's fogged by worry).
Whether its this (not my favorite, we are still somewhat babysitting her after all and the point is letting her feel self-reliant... yes its irrational of her) , or going with another magical girl, I do think a Saya-heavy hunt is what she needs for reassurance. I'd quite like to send her with camoflague girl Ono (when did we last check on her anyways?) just to let her see what a REAL crappy newbie looks like, or for increased safety (since protecting a rookie can be more dangerous than solo) one of the newer arrivals who's still a bit green. If not for Kyouko never ever allowing it, Yuma would actually be perfect since she's new but also a healer. (Whyyy did we leave without her copying healing?)
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- Location
- Your Native Universe
Where the hell did you get the implication that Kyousuke's a horrible person?
LucidProp
Pocky Eating MafiaDoka
Er, pretty sure both Canon and Urobuchi had the SayaKyo Ship going.
What we want is for Sayaka to deal with her Love Triangle first, if it works out or not, instead of instantly shipping her with Kyoko without resolving the Triangle issue first. Hopefully, done so without Sayaka dying. That's pretty far from canon.
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- Location
- USA
Not what I said, those were two separate statements. I addressed Violin-sexual boy as "trash", for the very little I've seen of him seems to suggest he's at best Ace (and so doensn't deserve unkind words but it does mean he'd be a trash-quality choice for a crush yes? Entirely unsuitable for good reasons on both sides) and worst takes them for granted without noticing. He barely seemed to react to pretty constant visits from them, or their non-music presence otherwise.
"Horrible person" was taking the example a step farther, reacting to the premise you seemed to be basing on that Canon-Pairings must be endorsed and helped along (even if they are clearly bad for the person, and not just unworthy) and that we shouldn't try to interrfere with a Canon pairing as a broad rule. That is, if it WAS a truely horrible person Sayaka was crushing on, should we still wingman for her, or try to redirect?
I'm not sure what the difference between Canon and Urobuchi is, unless you meant Quest-Canon and not Original-Source-Canon ? (Which is confusing, and pretty clearly not what I was responding to since I specifically mentioned this as fanfiction in my complaint). I said that what Urobutcher decides Sayaka should endure shouldn't be any kind of rule on how we MUST act, and as far as Sayaka currently favoring Kyousuke in this quest its sort've the issue at hand that we are debating changing-that versus leaving it alone???
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
How about we don't try to control Sayaka's love life and let her make her own fucking decisions (literally)? Be her friend and give her advice, but trying to decide this stuff for her is entirely too Gilgamesh.
Going back to the vote, the update ended on this:
I still feel that it's important to humble ourselves a little bit. Sayaka's looking at Sabrina and Mami and Homura as these gods and heroes that she can't live up to. Show her that we're not. Show her that we're just a flawed human being like everyone else, and it's okay for her to be one, too.
[x] Sit next to Sayaka and comfort her.
[x] Whether she believes it or not, she's doing a great job. It's been less than a week and she's already one of the best melee fighters we know. The fight she gave us just now was one of the toughest one-on-one fights we've ever had. The only people we've faced who are better are ones who've been doing this for years. She's so good that we had to hire one of the best melee fighters in the region to have something new to teach her.
[x] She's our friend. She's someone we can trust and rely upon. We worry about her, yeah, not because she's not strong but because we care. We worry about everyone. We worry about Homura, no matter how powerful she is, we worry about Kyouko... Mami's the greatest, but we worry about her the most of all. We're scared, all the time. Scared of losing the people we love. No matter how strong they are. Magical girls, no matter how strong, are all so fragile, deep down. We can't bear to lose anyone. This is the only family we've ever known.
[x] If she seems to respond positively:
-[x] There's going to be a lot of new magical girls coming to town soon. We're going to be depending on her. Because we know that she's someone we can depend on, someone with a good heart. We think she's amazing.
*snort* I don't believe for an instant that Homura deliberately let Kyouko put her in a grapple. She was taken by surprise and then sacrificed a grenade to get away. If she just wanted an excuse to get distracted from Sayaka, she could have just dodged it. And why would she want to let Sayaka get away? She went to all that trouble to find her in the first place and keep her from witching out for Madoka's sake.
Going back to the vote, the update ended on this:
Sayaka's in the fetal position. This didn't go well.
I still feel that it's important to humble ourselves a little bit. Sayaka's looking at Sabrina and Mami and Homura as these gods and heroes that she can't live up to. Show her that we're not. Show her that we're just a flawed human being like everyone else, and it's okay for her to be one, too.
[x] Sit next to Sayaka and comfort her.
[x] Whether she believes it or not, she's doing a great job. It's been less than a week and she's already one of the best melee fighters we know. The fight she gave us just now was one of the toughest one-on-one fights we've ever had. The only people we've faced who are better are ones who've been doing this for years. She's so good that we had to hire one of the best melee fighters in the region to have something new to teach her.
[x] She's our friend. She's someone we can trust and rely upon. We worry about her, yeah, not because she's not strong but because we care. We worry about everyone. We worry about Homura, no matter how powerful she is, we worry about Kyouko... Mami's the greatest, but we worry about her the most of all. We're scared, all the time. Scared of losing the people we love. No matter how strong they are. Magical girls, no matter how strong, are all so fragile, deep down. We can't bear to lose anyone. This is the only family we've ever known.
[x] If she seems to respond positively:
-[x] There's going to be a lot of new magical girls coming to town soon. We're going to be depending on her. Because we know that she's someone we can depend on, someone with a good heart. We think she's amazing.
- Location
- Your Native Universe
His relationship with Sayaka and taking her for granted is one of the more complicated things to explain. As shown in the Extra Route in PMMM Portable (yes, this game actually has quite a bit of information), Kyousuke actually has no idea that Sayaka likes him as more than just a friend. Not just that, he outright thinks that a person like him is completely opposite to the type of boy that Sayaka would normally like, which honestly explains quite a bit.
He's dense. He's so dense that he actually has no idea why Sayaka would invest so much time and effort into him while he's at the hospital to the point that he thinks she's pretty much pitying him.
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To take another angle, the thread has been very overzealous in forcing the current Mami/Sabrina relationship. How about easing up and seeing if this iteration of Kyouko and Sayaka develop any interest in the other without Sabrina barging in to try forcing it?
LucidProp
Pocky Eating MafiaDoka
Ace? I'm unsure what that means. Mind explaining to me?
The key here is "From what little we've seen". If we had no prior knowledge of the characters here, you'd be saying the same of Kyoko's aggressive and confrontational attitude, Homura's stalker-ish tendencies, Oriko and Kirika's grandstanding etc etc.
Before you judge someone, try and learn more about them. You'd be surprised.
I trust Firn as a writer that if we do try, he can make Violin-Boy a 3-Dimensional Character that has traits beyond "muh music".
Leaving it alone. It's her love life after all. Just wanted to say that "X has crush on Y canonically" isn't reason enough to barge in and interfere when the relationship isn't even that harmful.
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
Short for "asexual".
DB_Explorer
Purveyor of alternate realities.
- Location
- San Diego, California
- Pronouns
- He/Him
random idea (revised)
[X] Hug Sayaka
- [X] Apologize about how your no good at helping with this type of stuff... really you and social have issues with each other.
- [X] Maybe you won't be able to know truly and completely that your useful until the day comes that the chips are down and your the one that tips the scales in our favor. Your true strength is never known until your on the line. I have no doubts though that when that day comes, and don't you go looking for it, that you will do just fine and pull one or all of our asses out of the proverbial fire. Why? Because you Sayaka Miki made a wish with, unlike so many other girls, knowledge of what it means to make a wish all for the simple goal of helping your friends. I think most magical girls would consider having a friend like that worth more then all the combat support in the world.
- [X] Now... Karaoke
- [X] With Mami hugs
Note: Alas I wanted to work a line from Firefly from Shepard - I don't care what you believe in, just believe in it.
[X] Hug Sayaka
- [X] Apologize about how your no good at helping with this type of stuff... really you and social have issues with each other.
- [X] Maybe you won't be able to know truly and completely that your useful until the day comes that the chips are down and your the one that tips the scales in our favor. Your true strength is never known until your on the line. I have no doubts though that when that day comes, and don't you go looking for it, that you will do just fine and pull one or all of our asses out of the proverbial fire. Why? Because you Sayaka Miki made a wish with, unlike so many other girls, knowledge of what it means to make a wish all for the simple goal of helping your friends. I think most magical girls would consider having a friend like that worth more then all the combat support in the world.
- [X] Now... Karaoke
- [X] With Mami hugs
Note: Alas I wanted to work a line from Firefly from Shepard - I don't care what you believe in, just believe in it.
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Karnewarrior
Leastmost of the Hanged Man Arcana
I'd vote for you, DB
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
I worry that this might encourage Sayaka to do something reckless in the name of "finding her moment."
DB_Explorer
Purveyor of alternate realities.
- Location
- San Diego, California
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yay! Though the idea was more to put something out there were we just admit we are failing at our social. Basically dropping the hypeman act and being straight with her. Because, lets be honest, from a IC point of view Sabrina trusts Sayaka to be useful more due to trusting Sayaka and having some faith in her then any sort of quantifiable metric.
I'm pretty sure that would occur with or without the line. If she's desperate to prove her worth and be useful she will find those chances anyway.
I can edit the wording a tad. But the idea in the end is that you can't really know your worth until the cards are down, until you take that hit. Until then its a matter of debate, faith and estimation. I did'nt KNOW how I would react to a fire despite all the training the Navy gave me until they called it away for real.
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Rictek
Burning hear to the burning way
- Location
- Colombia
you know this scene makes me remember something,.i cant remember what.. sayaka blue color overall..... skill to copy other powers..... OMG
*turn on snes simulator*
yup sabrina is going full zero on X-sayaka, just need the background music
The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
Right. At this point, I think Sayaka needs a concrete, meaningful goal more than anything else. So, before I put anything else in:
[X]Ask Sayaka if she'd like have projects she can actually work on rather than just training for the future.
-[X]Give her a list of things we're trying to accomplish, including:
--[X] Developing better ways to communicate in absolute secrecy.
--[X] Help set up the town to house and care for incoming refugees, especially ones we don't get warning about ahead of time.
--[X] Help find potential magical girls to ensure they don't need to make contracts, or at least that we're in a position to help them if they do anyways.
[X]Ask Sayaka if she'd like have projects she can actually work on rather than just training for the future.
-[X]Give her a list of things we're trying to accomplish, including:
--[X] Developing better ways to communicate in absolute secrecy.
--[X] Help set up the town to house and care for incoming refugees, especially ones we don't get warning about ahead of time.
--[X] Help find potential magical girls to ensure they don't need to make contracts, or at least that we're in a position to help them if they do anyways.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
OK... I'm trying to include good points everyone's been bringing up?
[X] Reach out to Sayaka. Hugs as appropriate.
[X] Give her perspective on how most new Magical Girls would be doing in her stead. Like Ono. Ugh.
-[X] That's part of why we worry so much... but really? Sayaka is very strong already. And we still worry, just like we worry about Mami, and Homura, everyone. Because what we're doing is dangerous, and they're our friends. We don't want to lose anyone.
-[X] Sayaka Wished to help us knowing what it meant. That means a lot to us.
-[X] She'll have her time to shine. We can't handle everything, much as we wish otherwise.
[X] On that note, we're gonna need lots of help with the influx of Magical Girls we'll have soon.
-[X] Ask her to practise that Cloning power. Note social/combat advantadges if necessary.
[X] Transform stress into happiness through mumihugs.
[X] Karaoke!
-[X] Have a duet with Mami!
[X] Reach out to Sayaka. Hugs as appropriate.
[X] Give her perspective on how most new Magical Girls would be doing in her stead. Like Ono. Ugh.
-[X] That's part of why we worry so much... but really? Sayaka is very strong already. And we still worry, just like we worry about Mami, and Homura, everyone. Because what we're doing is dangerous, and they're our friends. We don't want to lose anyone.
-[X] Sayaka Wished to help us knowing what it meant. That means a lot to us.
-[X] She'll have her time to shine. We can't handle everything, much as we wish otherwise.
[X] On that note, we're gonna need lots of help with the influx of Magical Girls we'll have soon.
-[X] Ask her to practise that Cloning power. Note social/combat advantadges if necessary.
[X] Transform stress into happiness through mumihugs.
[X] Karaoke!
-[X] Have a duet with Mami!
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OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
What did Sayaka know about her Soul Gem turning completely black when she contracted? If it wasn't at least dying, we're lying if we say this.
Muramasa
Best Girl
Not really. Sayaka may not have the full context but she does know it meant selling her soul and committing to a life of fighting. That's still more than significant.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Fair but there's a difference between willingness to die for somebody and willingness to risk eternal damnation for them.