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Paths of Civilization

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[X] [Conq] Take the northern lowlands (Thunder Speakers become vassal, Txolla annex additional territory, gain Ruined Thunder Horse as vassal, remainder fragment, -4 Econ and 4 temporary Econ damage from supporting wrecked vassal)
[x] [Refugee] Use the military to evacutate as many as possible (8 temporary Econ damage, -9-11 Econ Expansion, -2 Stability, chance of further loss, +9-11 Econ next turn, incompatible with most ambitious conquest option)
[X] [PttS] Horse Valley
[X] [PttS] 0 Stability
[X] [Diplo] Let's maybe spread out in case the gods throw another bolt (Found Far Northern Trade Post)
[X] [PSN] Bit more black soil (Sec Black Soil, -1 Centralization)
 
Tally:
Adhoc vote count started by gutza1 on Aug 6, 2017 at 8:57 AM, finished with 803 posts and 121 votes.
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WeaponX1023 said:
Damn. Black Mirror is winning by two. Please everyone, Horse Valley is the better location.
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No, it is not.

It is a different location with a different bonus.
Black mirror offers the reflection in the pool, that allows some measurements otherwise not possible till advanced optics, vs better view angles of the Horse Valley.
Black Mirror is also politically more convenient site.

It is also a more mystical location, and lime I said above, I now think it matters a great deal more than I thought three turns ago.
 
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[X] [Conq] Take the northern lowlands (Thunder Speakers become vassal, Txolla annex additional territory, gain Ruined Thunder Horse as vassal, remainder fragment, -4 Econ and 4 temporary Econ damage from supporting wrecked vassal)
[X] [Refugee] Send out runners that you have food and intact farmland (6 temporary Econ damage, -6-8 Econ Expansion, -1 Stability, chance of further loss, +6-8 Econ next turn)
[X] [PttS] Black Mirror
[X] [PttS] 0 Stability
[X] [PSN] Bit more black soil (Sec Black Soil, -1 Centralization)
[X] [Diplo] Send out reassurances (Sec Trade Mission to Khemetri, Trelli, and Harmurri)
 
BungieONI said:
There is a significant idea gaining steam that maybe we do want the extra mysticism from Black Mirror. What with all that just happened.
However, I can't decide so I just voted for both.
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But they just get trippy and stuff and maybe fall in the water. I bet there is something else we can build to better make use of it. Also if we are using the water as a mirror we can really study the underground water without possibly damaging it. (Or at least interfering with study.) It's the wrong thing to do.
 
Kiba said:
It was a learning experience of a mistake. We narrowly avoided death through Phygrif's minor crit. We also never planned to be at the right place and the right time when the meteor strike happened for the Thunder Horse.
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Phygrif got our foot in the door to take the lowlands it was through his accomplishments that we became king of the hill without it we would have been steam rolled by the Khem and we would still be at risk of the xoh re-surging and taking over. Sure we were lucky but can you people honestly say that we would move in to the lowlands willingly without heroic intervention?
 
[X] [Refugee] Use the military to evacutate as many as possible (8 temporary Econ damage, -9-11 Econ Expansion, -2 Stability, chance of further loss, +9-11 Econ next turn, incompatible with most ambitious conquest option)
[X] [PSN] Keep it under control (Do not activate this turn)

[X] [PttS] Horse Valley

We need our centralization to survive this.
 
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[X] [Conq] Take the northern lowlands (Thunder Speakers become vassal, Txolla annex additional territory, gain Ruined Thunder Horse as vassal, remainder fragment, -4 Econ and 4 temporary Econ damage from supporting wrecked vassal)
[X] [Refugee] Send out runners that you have food and intact farmland (6 temporary Econ damage, -6-8 Econ Expansion, -1 Stability, chance of further loss, +6-8 Econ next turn)
[X] [PttS] Black Mirror
[X] [PttS] 0 Stability
[X] [PSN] Bit more black soil (Sec Black Soil, -1 Centralization)
[X] [Diplo] Send out reassurances (Sec Trade Mission to Khemetri, Trelli, and Harmurri)
 
[X] [Conq] Just the western parts (Thunder Speakers become vassal, Txolla annex additional territory, rest of the Thunder Horse fragment into desperate city states)
[X] [Refugee] Send out runners that you have food and intact farmland (6 temporary Econ damage, -6-8 Econ Expansion, -1 Stability, chance of further loss, +6-8 Econ next turn)
[X] [PttS] Black Mirror
[X] [PttS] 0 Stability
[X] [Diplo] Stay home, write panic driven poetry (Main Build Theatre)
[X] [PSN] Keep it under control (Do not activate this turn)

Well FRELL! I'm not sure if our priests deciding their predictions are warnings instead of prophecy's is better or worse for us. At least we are finally building the PttS.

Huh, and why the hell not. Lets write some terribad poetry that will last the ages. And you know is guaranteed to survive us if we go extinct.
 
hylas240 said:
I want black mirror so we can get a "watery tart" to start throwing swords at people :evil:
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That makes no sense.

Really man Horse Valley is the better location. Building it will add more traffic to the area and improve it. Anything the Black Mirror can do can be copied and added to the temple.

With Black Mirror we won't be able to improve or upgrade it at all. There is no room to improve and our priests will be distracted by falling into trances. One mistake can have someone fall in to the water and die. I don't want that.
 
WeaponX1023 said:
Damn. Black Mirror is winning by two. Please everyone, Horse Valley is the better location.
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I voted for black mirror because it is more easily accessible by at least two orders of magnitude. This means more people are likely to visit it and more people are thus likely to learn from it. In short, it gives better odds for increased number of people educated.

Considering we have both prior knowledge going into this from the khemetri and a genius mystic, I think we can still make this insanely accurate and I want to instead focus on increasing the number of people exposed and learning from a place dedicated to study.
 
Aabcehmu said:
[X] [Conq] Take the northern lowlands (Thunder Speakers become vassal, Txolla annex additional territory, gain Ruined Thunder Horse as vassal, remainder fragment, -4 Econ and 4 temporary Econ damage from supporting wrecked vassal)
[X] [Refugee] Send out runners that you have food and intact farmland (6 temporary Econ damage, -6-8 Econ Expansion, -1 Stability, chance of further loss, +6-8 Econ next turn)
[X] [PttS] Black Mirror
[X] [PttS] 0 Stability
[X] [PSN] Bit more black soil (Sec Black Soil, -1 Centralization)
[X] [Diplo] Send out reassurances (Sec Trade Mission to Khemetri, Trelli, and Harmurri)
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Traiden said:
[X] [Conq] Take the northern lowlands (Thunder Speakers become vassal, Txolla annex additional territory, gain Ruined Thunder Horse as vassal, remainder fragment, -4 Econ and 4 temporary Econ damage from supporting wrecked vassal)
[X] [Refugee] Send out runners that you have food and intact farmland (6 temporary Econ damage, -6-8 Econ Expansion, -1 Stability, chance of further loss, +6-8 Econ next turn)
[X] [PttS] Black Mirror
[X] [PttS] 0 Stability
[X] [PSN] Bit more black soil (Sec Black Soil, -1 Centralization)
[X] [Diplo] Send out reassurances (Sec Trade Mission to Khemetri, Trelli, and Harmurri)
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Drahcir said:
[X] [Conq] Just the western parts (Thunder Speakers become vassal, Txolla annex additional territory, rest of the Thunder Horse fragment into desperate city states)
[X] [Refugee] Send out runners that you have food and intact farmland (6 temporary Econ damage, -6-8 Econ Expansion, -1 Stability, chance of further loss, +6-8 Econ next turn)
[X] [PttS] Black Mirror
[X] [PttS] 0 Stability
[X] [Diplo] Stay home, write panic driven poetry (Main Build Theatre)
[X] [PSN] Keep it under control (Do not activate this turn)

Well FRELL! I'm not sure if our priests deciding their predictions are warnings instead of prophecy's is better or worse for us. At least we are finally building the PttS.

Huh, and why the hell not. Lets write some terribad poetry that will last the ages. And you know is guaranteed to survive us if we go extinct.
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Why are you choosing Black Mirror?
 
cent/stab just became a whole lot more important.
we should also absorb gulvalley in the near future.
 
BungieONI said:
There is a significant idea gaining steam that maybe we do want the extra mysticism from Black Mirror. What with all that just happened.
However, I can't decide so I just voted for both.
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I go with the Black Mirror and here why :
Our priest are still the ones driving the tech train the hardest as they are the ones that ask the most questions about the world and trying to understand it.

If we place it somewhere where normal people have easy access that might turn the whole place into more of an attraction for magic, then an research center / a place where they can study the stars in peace that i want.

Another reason would be that the other location would almost certainly spawn a true city there and i am not sure if we want one there.
 
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bluefur87 said:
I voted for black mirror because it is more easily accessible by at least two orders of magnitude. This means more people are likely to visit it and more people are thus likely to learn from it. In short, it gives better odds for increased number of people educated.

Considering we have both prior knowledge going into this from the khemetri and a genius mystic, I think we can still make this insanely accurate and I want to instead focus on increasing the number of people exposed and learning from a place dedicated to study.
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Again building it in Horse Valley will increase the incentive to improve therefore making it more accessable. We can learn much more there then using a limited pool. It can't be improved.

In Horse Valley we can take what we learn and make improvements as needed.
 
WeaponX1023 said:
With Black Mirror we won't be able to improve or upgrade it at all. There is no room to improve and our priests will be distracted by falling into trances. One mistake can have someone fall in to the water and die. I don't want that.
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Our Spirit chief specifically said it'd be better for mystic purposes, which includes both mathematics, astronomy and spiritualism.
By contrast, Horse Valley has a good view.

If you want the priests to develop the concept of planets and the mathematics of orbital mechanics early, go for the Black Mirror.
If you want the priests to develop extensive star maps early, go for the Horse Valley.

However, the Khemetri already have the Horse Valley type of Place to the Stars, so it might be more valuable to focus on Black Mirror, then do another astrology tech trade with them in the future. Star maps for mathematics.
 
Skjadir said:
I go with the Black Mirror and here why :
Our priest are still the ones driving the tech train the hardest as they are the ones that ask the most questions about the world and trying to understand it.

If we place it somewhere where normal people have easy access that might turn the whole place into more of an attraction for magic, then an research center / a place where they can study the stars in peace that i want.

Another reason would be that the other location would almost certainly spawn a true city there and i am not sure if we want one there.
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Who cares about a "greater area" when the issue is that the NORTH is culturally distinct. Blackriver is already a nexus of trade and thus already has demand and already has a cosmopolitan culture. Stonepen i.e. Horse Valley has no demand because it is not a nexus of trade. It needs an increase in travelers to stop being localized and thus prone to social fracturing from everywhere else.

"a months long journey" my ass. Catamaran to Redshore, the famed city. Longship up the canal. Ride a Horse to horse valley. If they care about astronomy they'll visit it during the long pilgrimage to Sacred Forest; if they don't care they're not going to visit Blackriver either.
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Building the temple in Horse Valley will increase accessibility. It might not be good right now but that can always be improved.
 
WeaponX1023 said:
Again building it in Horse Valley will increase the incentive to improve therefore making it more accessable. We can learn much more there then using a limited pool. It can't be improved.

In Horse Valley we can take what we learn and make improvements as needed.
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Horsevalley is not anywhere near a major travel route, so no, it will never reach the same levels as a settlement on a major river.
 
WeaponX1023 said:
Building the temple in Horse Valley will increase accessibility. It might not be good right now but that can always be improved.
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...no, it won't.
Horse Valley is in the middle of nowhere, and cannot be reached easily.

The Black Mirror, on the other hand, is in the middle of our territory and can be conveniently reached by boat and by roads. It is much, much easier accessible.
 
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