Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
Wrong way round.
Horse Valley is amazing for stargazing, due to superior sight lines. It's good for astrology and starmapping as you can track a lot of the sky and thus see more phenomenon.
Star Mirror is amazing for starstudying, as it gives you a place where you can precisely track the motions of stars in a clearly demarcated range. It's good for astronomy and orbital mathematics, as the limited range lets you apply mathematics and geometry to predicting how a given star will move.
This is a big chunk of what Stonehenge and the Mayan Temples are built for, they are designed to cut off the view of the sky into slices containing the paths of particular celestial bodies for study. The Star Mirror skips that challenge.
They're good at different things. Vote for the thing you want to use it for.
Heroic Admin is a good a time as any?
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- Location
- Third planet from the star named Sol
- Pronouns
- He/They
Two overflowing, three stability at start of turn and end of mid-turn.
Tech 7 -> 15 (No Midturn Change)7 + 8 (Overflow from Mysticism) + 3 (Overflow from Culture) = 18 - 3 (???) = 15
The last discrepency between my math and AN's...with luck i'm right and they'll be another update to the civ sheet before i even post this
On phone, so can't search, but I distinctly remember @Academia Nut saying, due to the Ymaryn social and religious structures, our baths actually cost Mysticism (exact phrasing I believe).
While he is still working out the exact costs, perhaps this is where your missing Myst overflow arises?
On the matter of the vote... Spite vote against sea kun?
[X] [Conq] Take the northern lowlands (Thunder Speakers become vassal, Txolla annex additional territory, gain Ruined Thunder Horse as vassal, remainder fragment, -4 Econ and 4 temporary Econ damage from supporting wrecked vassal)
[X] [Refugee] Take as many who run to you (4 temporary Econ damage, -4-5 Econ Expansion,+4-5 Econ next turn, chance of stability drop)
[X] [PttS] Black Mirror
[X] [PttS] 0 Stability
[X] [Diplo] Let's maybe spread out in case the gods throw another bolt (Found Far Northern Trade Post)
[X] [PSN] Bit more black soil (Sec Black Soil, -1 Centralization)
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Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
Why would we need a safe EJ if we're not losing stab due to our stab resistance trait?
- Location
- Australia
I'm aware of the mechanical effects. I just care more about helping as many people as possible so I can look back in this moment as one of my proudest moments in the thread, up there with our generosity during the Great Drought and the fight against cholera. Helping the most amount of people would also be the best thing we can do from a cultural standpoint.
@Academia Nut - shouldn't we have 16 income from Baby Boom / Pop. Explosion listed on the front page?
On a completely separate note, are the Econ Damage we see from the options reduced by our resistance (storehouse and the like) or is the reduction included already?
On a completely separate note, are the Econ Damage we see from the options reduced by our resistance (storehouse and the like) or is the reduction included already?
- Location
- I think somewhere. I might be nowhere though
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Currently the -2 or more stability option is winning
- Location
- Panama City
Ok, I get that, but I just think constant self-sacrifice is unnecessary from a narrative standpoint.
- Location
- Australia
High Centralisation is bad when there's an Idiot King because it lets dumb things get done efficiently. We have a Heroic King, so High Centralisation would be heaven.
Unnecessary, sure, but not without benefit. The benefit here is a larger improvement to our culture and being even more proud of the things we're doing here.
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Not yet, Econ damage reduction is against the TOTAL.
Uh, Centralization isn't at risk in my vote?
I drop it by only 1 because we need the Econ Expansion from the Black Soil or we'd end the population explosion.
keenscythe
No longer NEET
- Location
- WA, USA
Okay, functionally our next few turns are locked into building new roads, building diplomacy/retraining to dump martial then integrating as much as we can, stability permitting.
Assuming no changes to costs does anyone have a idea how many turns that this will take?
Assuming no changes to costs does anyone have a idea how many turns that this will take?
- Location
- Madness realms
God damn I hate In Service to Order because if we go to negatives we lose legitimacy and this threatens our tried and true tactic of creating/waiting until someone has a stab drop and then we suffer a large stab drop and eat half their people.
VoidZero
Passing Flan 布丁魔王
- Location
- Anywhere but RL
We have a lot to gain from absorbing huge amount of foreign population, so it's not a sacrifice of any sort. We aren't losing anything valuable permanently.
- Location
- Australia
What about our Colonies? They can absorb excess population.
We are building something like a cross between Stonehenge and Mayan Temples at a site though, so the end result with Horse Valley is better even if it takes more work to build.
- Location
- U.S.A.
Yeah, but the quote in my card seems to fit more with what just happened.3 stab two stats maxed, have that for a turn
I think you mean
- Location
- Snowbound Wilderness
[X] [Conq] Take the northern lowlands (Thunder Speakers become vassal, Txolla annex additional territory, gain Ruined Thunder Horse as vassal, remainder fragment, -4 Econ and 4 temporary Econ damage from supporting wrecked vassal)
[X] [Refugee] Use the military to evacutate as many as possible (8 temporary Econ damage, -9-11 Econ Expansion, -2 Stability, chance of further loss, +9-11 Econ next turn, incompatible with most ambitious conquest option)
[X] [PttS] Horse Valley
[X] [Diplo] Send out reassurances (Sec Trade Mission to Khemetri, Trelli, and Harmurri)
[X] [PSN] More Black soil (Sec Black soil, -1 Centralization)
It's time to save as many people as we can. (The conquest option doesn't indicate significant fighting and does indicate us supporting our new vassal.)
This can be barely explained within the known laws of physics. But we'd have to allow some kind of hyper intuition.
Now I'm wondering if we could just talk to the highland kingdom. "We keep on fighting. The gods hate that. How bout a nice diplomatic annexation?"
[X] [Refugee] Use the military to evacutate as many as possible (8 temporary Econ damage, -9-11 Econ Expansion, -2 Stability, chance of further loss, +9-11 Econ next turn, incompatible with most ambitious conquest option)
[X] [PttS] Horse Valley
[X] [Diplo] Send out reassurances (Sec Trade Mission to Khemetri, Trelli, and Harmurri)
[X] [PSN] More Black soil (Sec Black soil, -1 Centralization)
It's time to save as many people as we can. (The conquest option doesn't indicate significant fighting and does indicate us supporting our new vassal.)
This can be barely explained within the known laws of physics. But we'd have to allow some kind of hyper intuition.
Now I'm wondering if we could just talk to the highland kingdom. "We keep on fighting. The gods hate that. How bout a nice diplomatic annexation?"
[X] [Conq] Take the northern lowlands (Thunder Speakers become vassal, Txolla annex additional territory, gain Ruined Thunder Horse as vassal, remainder fragment, -4 Econ and 4 temporary Econ damage from supporting wrecked vassal)
[X] [Refugee] Send out runners that you have food and intact farmland (6 temporary Econ damage, -6-8 Econ Expansion, -1 Stability, chance of further loss, +6-8 Econ next turn)
[X] [PttS] Horse Valley
[X] [PttS] 0 Stability
[X] [Diplo] Let's maybe spread out in case the gods throw another bolt (Found Far Northern Trade Post)
[X] [Refugee] Send out runners that you have food and intact farmland (6 temporary Econ damage, -6-8 Econ Expansion, -1 Stability, chance of further loss, +6-8 Econ next turn)
[X] [PttS] Horse Valley
[X] [PttS] 0 Stability
[X] [Diplo] Let's maybe spread out in case the gods throw another bolt (Found Far Northern Trade Post)
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Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
- Pronouns
- He/Him
@Academia Nut
-shouldn't we have gained prestige from this, since people seem to think we had a hand in causing it, not just witnessing it?
-if we stay at 3 stab after this vote, how long do we need to maintain that to trigger the golden age? Just until the next turn starts? Until the midturn starts (sothe next update, since admin hero handles main turn)? Through the end of next turn?
-Did the bit in the update about Hertythn feeling like "years had been shaved off his lifespan" actually indicate that he's going to die sooner than your previous timeline of him being around at least through next turn and maybe one more after that?
-now that econ expansion is lost for refugees right away, does that mean it double dips in expansion cost with overflow? (i.e. say the only econ change we had this update was taking 4 econ of refugees. Thus, we go to 18 {14} econ, and 7 econ expansion. Then, next turn pretend we somehow had no other econ changes. So we'd go to 22 econ, overflow 4 of that, and with 3 cities normally that would cost 1 expansion from overflow, taking us to 18 econ, 6 EE. But that would mean we lost 5 expansion slots for 4 econ. Is that how it would work? If not, how does it get calculated so it doesn't double charge?
Edit: Nevermind, realized i was misunderstanding how overflow works. I'd been thinking it was that overflow cost slots, but i realized its just that expand econ/baby boom costs slots, and then overflow only refunds a limited amount of those slots. So we'd actually be potentially regaining some slots from this refugee wave...if we weren't going to overflow massively anyway
-All the questions i had in my analysis post:
-shouldn't we have gained prestige from this, since people seem to think we had a hand in causing it, not just witnessing it?
-if we stay at 3 stab after this vote, how long do we need to maintain that to trigger the golden age? Just until the next turn starts? Until the midturn starts (sothe next update, since admin hero handles main turn)? Through the end of next turn?
-Did the bit in the update about Hertythn feeling like "years had been shaved off his lifespan" actually indicate that he's going to die sooner than your previous timeline of him being around at least through next turn and maybe one more after that?
-now that econ expansion is lost for refugees right away, does that mean it double dips in expansion cost with overflow? (i.e. say the only econ change we had this update was taking 4 econ of refugees. Thus, we go to 18 {14} econ, and 7 econ expansion. Then, next turn pretend we somehow had no other econ changes. So we'd go to 22 econ, overflow 4 of that, and with 3 cities normally that would cost 1 expansion from overflow, taking us to 18 econ, 6 EE. But that would mean we lost 5 expansion slots for 4 econ. Is that how it would work? If not, how does it get calculated so it doesn't double charge?
Edit: Nevermind, realized i was misunderstanding how overflow works. I'd been thinking it was that overflow cost slots, but i realized its just that expand econ/baby boom costs slots, and then overflow only refunds a limited amount of those slots. So we'd actually be potentially regaining some slots from this refugee wave...if we weren't going to overflow massively anyway
-All the questions i had in my analysis post:
-Shouldn't we have 18 tech, not 15?
-So the thread has a citation, can you confirm 1. that we got +4 econ from "good harvests" (either predictive astrology, or good environmental rolls i presume, you didn't specify in the convo), and 2. that study stars didn't pay out this turn due to adjusting to the new tech?
-Since we won't be seeing the action list for another turn or two due to Hertythn being way too long lived, would you be willing to share the following things, the first of which is important for planning and the next 3 are both interesting to me personally and hopefully will help inspire the thread to actually have constructive discussions about them and planning around/for them, instead of devolving into more problems for manus
1. The expansion limit for keeping redshore a city
2. The listing for the Artisan Competitions megaproject
3. The Listing for the Ironworks megaproject, or whatever it is that we unlocked in redhills with the aqueduct near the mines
4. The listing for the gymnasium...building? extended project?
-Does our new debilitating belief force value change immediately if nemesis changes?
-What happens if we have no nemesis?
-Will giving up our CB on the HK stop them from being our nemesis?
-Will choosing yes apply any war missions yet, or will that have to wait? Will we still get a midturn reaction chance, or will that be used up by the war?We now know exactly what it will do
-Do we have intervention cb against the Storm Wolves? ...For that matter, what are the Storm Wolves up to? Is the hero son still around, and still fighting the metal workers?
-how often do we get new faction quests, after completing previous ones?
-did we get any innovations from tinrivers docks this turn?
-Are we trading case hardened iron? or just regular iron?
-Did we succeed in the traders quest with the iron trade? you said it was possible, but not guaranteed.
-Can you confirm that the difference for the iron is that it gives a full +1 wealth on its own, instead of the usual +1 per 2 leading+ values?
-Shouldn't we have an extra settlement count for our walls, with the new province? We went from 14/45 to 16/45. ...On that note, where did the second wall come from? Did you go back and decide one of our integrated subjects, like the stallions, had more walls than you originally put or something?
A couple very minor things for the civ sheet:
-Baby boom/pop explosion should be +8, not +7 with our new province
-Annex limit should be 12 now, instead of 11 (2 + 8/2 + 6)
-Subordinate count didn't update with the Dragon Banner company
-Iron says "dominant" instead of the usual "Dominating"
And some questions that remain from before:
-Does the additional guild actions round up like the province actions? i.e. now that we have 8 provinces, do we have 1 main guild action, or 1 main + 1 secondary?
-To clarify your previous answer for the western wall integration, would a single (secondary) integration action get us 2 provinces from them? Or is each action 1 province and we can do so 2 times currently?
The baths were made by our infrastructure policy, which doesn't cost any resources, since they just give free progress. Also, we have mysticism refunds so if we did spend any, we'd have a higher pending return than (+1)
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[X] [Conq] Take the northern lowlands (Thunder Speakers become vassal, Txolla annex additional territory, gain Ruined Thunder Horse as vassal, remainder fragment, -4 Econ and 4 temporary Econ damage from supporting wrecked vassal)
[X] [Refugee] Send out runners that you have food and intact farmland (6 temporary Econ damage, -6-8 Econ Expansion, -1 Stability, chance of further loss, +6-8 Econ next turn)
[X] [PttS] Horse Valley
[X] [PttS] 1 Stability
[X] [Diplo] Send out reassurances (Sec Trade Mission to Khemetri, Trelli, and Harmurri)
[X] [PSN] Majorly push forward forests (Main Expand Forests, -2 Centralization)
[X] [Refugee] Send out runners that you have food and intact farmland (6 temporary Econ damage, -6-8 Econ Expansion, -1 Stability, chance of further loss, +6-8 Econ next turn)
[X] [PttS] Horse Valley
[X] [PttS] 1 Stability
[X] [Diplo] Send out reassurances (Sec Trade Mission to Khemetri, Trelli, and Harmurri)
[X] [PSN] Majorly push forward forests (Main Expand Forests, -2 Centralization)
Well, it is a mixed bag.
One one hand, it cuts the range we can work in almost by half, from (-3, 3) to (0, 3). On the other hand, we really don't like being in the lower half of the original range anyway, and in return we get 1 stab "back" a turn, which is no small thing.
That was with the colonies, and a refund from the Trade Post transfer. Our colonies can absorb 8 points in all, we're gaining 16+8 points with 11 slots to fit it in otherwise. You need one secondary black soil and the Trade Post to tank all those people.
- Location
- United States
[X] [Conq] Take the northern lowlands (Thunder Speakers become vassal, Txolla annex additional territory, gain Ruined Thunder Horse as vassal, remainder fragment, -4 Econ and 4 temporary Econ damage from supporting wrecked vassal)
[X] [Refugee] Send out runners that you have food and intact farmland (6 temporary Econ damage, -6-8 Econ Expansion, -1 Stability, chance of further loss, +6-8 Econ next turn)
[X] [PttS] Horse Valley
[X] [PttS] 0 Stability
[X] [Diplo] Let's maybe spread out in case the gods throw another bolt (Found Far Northern Trade Post)
[X] [PSN] Keep it under control (Do not activate this turn)
Horse Valley seems like a better spot for Stonehenge honestly.
Also, let's not drop our centralization just when we're getting a large influx of refugees.
[X] [Refugee] Send out runners that you have food and intact farmland (6 temporary Econ damage, -6-8 Econ Expansion, -1 Stability, chance of further loss, +6-8 Econ next turn)
[X] [PttS] Horse Valley
[X] [PttS] 0 Stability
[X] [Diplo] Let's maybe spread out in case the gods throw another bolt (Found Far Northern Trade Post)
[X] [PSN] Keep it under control (Do not activate this turn)
Horse Valley seems like a better spot for Stonehenge honestly.
Also, let's not drop our centralization just when we're getting a large influx of refugees.