Remove ads

Paths of Civilization

Reader mode
None of the PiA options sounds good to me. I really think we should have considered other options than upgrade Cosmopolitan Acceptance.
 
veekie said:
Pirates on Catamarans are not just a symptom anymore. They'd be going out there with Ymaryn tactics and technology.

Fixing the root cause is well and good, but we are releasing iron wielding, catamaran riding pirates into the Mediterranean which nobody else has the tech to catch, much less fight.
I want to chase them down and wipe them out before they have the chance run past the Trelli to set up as a future threat out there.

Our King is very likely to spend his main turn crushing out the corruption regardless. But the pirate fleet will only get harder the longer they spend building up their ability
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
And during all this time taken to look for them and root them out, the corruption roots itself deeper and makes it easier to spawn pirates.

Fix the problem now, and then we only have one pirate fleet to deal with later. Go after the pirates, and we allow the Shadow King(or network) time to spawn more pirates.
 
Kiba said:
Archaeologist: #@$R&*( Ymaryns.

Because the Ymaryn don't leave out scrap heaps and likes to rebuild and reorganize everything.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Most civs did that. When a city or village fell, the stones that mad up the ruins were often scavenged for easy building material. The foundations are likely to remain though, because it's been decades since Xohyr fell, and dust and erosion would have made those stick.
 
[X] [Pox] Yes (Khemetri gain knowledge of how to do the Sacred Warding, the People gain Predictive Astrology)
[X] [PiA] Swamp Folk (Probably Honour Value)
[X] [Iron] Allow finished goods to be traded
[X] [PDN] Majorly push forward forests (Main Expand Forests, -2 Centralization)
[X] [React] Attempt to root out problems (Main Enforce Justice)

Blah... I'm confident that there's a ceiling on how bad the pirates can get, but I don't have that confidence for corruption and whatnot.
If this means having to throw 2 Mercenary Companies and 2 Sailing Missions at the problem later, after Grand Docks, then so be it.
 
[X] [Pox] Yes (Khemetri gain knowledge of how to do the Sacred Warding, the People gain Predictive Astrology)
[X] [Iron] Allow finished goods to be traded
[X] [PiA] Trelli (Probably trade related)
[X] [PDN] Majorly push forward forests (Main Expand Forests, -2 Centralization)
[X] [React] Keep Working on the Docks (Adds another action towards the Grand Docks MP)

Traaade

Like brains for zombies
 
George said:
[X] [Pox] Yes (Khemetri gain knowledge of how to do the Sacred Warding, the People gain Predictive Astrology)
[X] [PiA] Swamp Folk (Probably Honour Value)
[X] [Iron] Allow finished goods to be traded
[X] [PDN] Majorly push forward forests (Main Expand Forests, -2 Centralization)
[X] [React] Attempt to root out problems (Main Enforce Justice)

Blah... I'm confident that there's a ceiling on how bad the pirates can get, but I don't have that confidence for corruption and whatnot.
If this means having to throw 2 Mercenary Companies and 2 Sailing Missions at the problem later, after Grand Docks, then so be it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

IIRC, one of the biggest problem the Roman Republic has leading up to the civil war was piracy. This is a very serious issue, and if we let them do as they please, they WILL start acquiring more ships as they hunt down our merchants and raid coastal villages.
 
8bitBob said:
Gonna have to head out soon, so I'm just gonna type up a post for my concerns on the two votes in close contention:

[] [PiA] Highlanders (Probably In Service to Order)
[] [PiA] Trelli (Probably trade related)

As others have pointed out, the Trelli are practically paralyzed by their Trade traits. We've been pretty big dicks to them for centuries, and they've just had to grit and bear it because they need our goods. While I'm not against Trade and Diplomacy, I don't like the idea of being beholden to it.

[] [React] Reorganize army and hunt deserters (Found Mercenary Company + Sailing Mission (anti-pirate))
[] [React] Attempt to root out problems (Main Enforce Justice)



As I understand it, the Khemetri delegation is already present, so they're not at risk. We've already warned the Trelli, and they're no slouches in the water, which leaves the Metal Workers in the highest risk position.

That's still a risk of a diplomatic incident, no doubt, but so is widespread corruption. Personally, I'd like to be working on the problem while we have so many high value people in our capitol.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Turns are 10 years. Theres more than one trip...and our ships are designed to beat Trelli
Academia Nut said:
Sort of. It means that you can build it with advanced knowledge already in place.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Quality over speed huh?
Academia Nut said:
"Nice gardens!"

"Thanks, we work very hard on them!"
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Come to us if your gardens have problems!
Academia Nut said:
Your priests think so.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yum
Academia Nut said:
The Highlanders can be very rigid about the rules and about enforcement.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Just the cure needed!
Academia Nut said:
4. Fairly high, depends what else you do
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Should put those fears to rest then
Academia Nut said:
5. It would be the Dragon Banner officially spun off, and assigned to hunt down what the boats find (if they find anything
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Dragonships?
Academia Nut said:
6. When bored, the People go out into the woods and take care of things. The Centralization drop is granting additional authority to do these things without central oversight.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
"I'm bored. Lets start a forest here"
Academia Nut said:
Sort of. The majority of it is a stripped out ruin, but a section of the outer walls has been restored and extended to create an enclosed area. The Skull Wall was torn down and the Old Center is generally avoided, although it is rapidly becoming a slum where outcasts hide out.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Nice reversal from history...
 
*finishes consuming the damned souls of something*

Burp.

Academia Nut said:
The Northerners were a very strange people, but once Remaharmati got to see one of their major cities when it wasn't on fire, he got a better look at them and found them... very strange, but also strangely appealing in several ways. Finally though he decided that he just had to ask.

"Do your people not suffer from the pox?" The prince asked through his translator.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Hubba hubba.
You like the cut of our... hair... don't cha Remah? Have fun! Don't work to hard now!
:ogles::ogles::ogles:

We become more elfy every day.

Academia Nut said:
There was some back and forth as his intent got through, the translator showing several scars to demonstrate which pox exactly that he meant. Eventually the rather surprising answer came back as, "Our ancestors received a ward against the pox from the gods in centuries past. It is our most powerful and sacred magic, and it is also extremely dangerous if mishandled."

The information that the Northerners had a ward against the pox caused the entire delegation to stop dead in their tracks in amazement. What then followed was a deep discussion between the prince and the priests accompanying him.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Ymaryn cast Anti-Pox Magic!
Khemetri is Poleaxed!


Academia Nut said:
Finally they said, "We will have the royal court astrologers brought here the next time we come to teach you everything we know about the heavens and divining the future if your priests will teach us this magic."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Khem say TAKE MY RESEARCH! As loudly as they can.

Academia Nut said:
A ward for the pox? Such magic would be invaluable in saving lives... in more ways than one. One of Remaharmati's younger brothers had been badly afflicted in his youth - well, several had, but the worst cases were dead - and the experience had left him badly disfigured. Rather than taking up any duties, he had retreated from public life and into the royal harem, where he was... well, were he not of divine blood he would have been dealt with already. If Remah became king he would strangle his brother himself just to keep the man away from the throne. He'd let the affliction get to him and had become as ugly on the inside as he perceived himself to be on the outside. And from the position of prince, Remah was of the opinion that more than a few disasters in the history of his people had come from promising princes perishing early, and some of them being twisted by the demons of disease. Reducing that by warding against the pox... the possibilities were incredible.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Interesting look at their thoughts. This is probably some kind of spiritual social order trait like Symphony is for us, or a wacky mutation of The Greater Good.
I think.

Academia Nut said:
Because of their invitation to the Games, the Khemetri know of the Sacred Warding. Share the knowledge with them?
[] [Pox] Yes (Khemetri gain knowledge of how to do the Sacred Warding, the People gain Predictive Astrology)
[] [Pox] No (-2 Diplomacy, Khemetri feel snubbed)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Uhhhh... *looks at tally*
Yeah this was kinda a no brainer.

Academia Nut said:
Elsewhere, the new heir to the throne of the People was working on the list of things that needed to get accomplished in the near future. At around the top of that list was the fact that a few hundred warriors and a dozen ships had gone missing.



"The same young fools - or at least the same sort - that triggered the riot and fire seem to have decided that they want to go be pirates and raiders. We've officially warned the Trelli that they may be attacking isolated settlements and traders, and that if they catch them they can do whatever the wish as these renegades have shunned our protection," one his investigators told Hertythyn. "Oh! They've also reported back their interest in attending the games."

-2 Martial
Minor Pirate group preying upon your shipping, -1 Wealth until dealt with (Requires sending a Sailing Mission to find them, followed by a War Mission or deployment of mercenaries to deal with them
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Crow dammit! No! Bad!

*starts whacking upstart warriors upside the head*

I sympathize with you Hert-man. So much. This is just headache, nose bridge pinching, stupidity.


Academia Nut said:
"The Swamp Folk and Metal Workers have also reported interest in attending. The Storm Wolves don't see the point, and the Thunder Horse snubbed our delegate. Incidentally, both of those latter two groups are currently making gains against the former two, so that may have something to do with it," a second man reported to the heir.

At that Hertythyn grunted in dissatisfaction. That was probably going to cause issues in the future. Nothing quite like having attractive youths coming over to talk with your elites about sob stories from home to whip up sentiment to do something. Hopefully it wouldn't be his problem though. Wars were a stupid way to sort things out. They just made messes that poor clerks had to go and clean up afterwards.

Although, reflecting upon some of the discussions being made, he considered the right to club some of the People upside the head an option he wished he could resort to.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Malthyumyn is making his desire to club some fools with his mallet known. We should probably listen to him.


Academia Nut said:
Patricians - Objective: Build Chariots within 2 turns. Success: +1 Culture, Failure: -5 Wealth
Guild - Objective: Build Glasswords within 3 turns. Success: +1 Tech & Culture, Failure: -3 Tech
Traders - Objective: Obtain Leading status or better in a new trade good within 3 turns. Failure: -1 Stability
Yeomen- Objective: Obtain a new province and have 50% or greater trails coverage within 2 turns. Success: +1 Stability
Priests- Objective: Build a Level 2 Temple within 3 turns. Failure: -1 Legitimacy
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Hmm.

All of these are doable, but by Fyth's Tits some of them are stupid. *glares at the Patricians* *you guys have an angry spirit now, cut this shit out!*

Academia Nut said:
The elites were complaining that the infantry were receiving all the support and they wanted more chariots for their sons to ride around on instead of doing other things and absorbing large amounts of luxuries. Well, given that bored young men with too much combat training and not enough to do had already sparked off a minor pirate problem, just increasing the funding for chariots was out of the cards. They would have to prune things down or introduce more discipline. Of course the traders were sort of happy that the elites were starting to buy more stuff locally, but their returns were better elsewhere so they were clamouring for the People to either increase production on something somewhere or get in on other trade channels. While the priests were glaring daggers at them over the idea that maybe there were some outsiders who no one would mind being sold to the Trelli because they were bad people anyway, there was another problem with the traders.

Selling iron the People made to outsiders was forbidden, but with the Metal Workers having their own mines and production there were a few traders who were staying within the letter of the law and flagrantly violating the spirit by buying up Metal Worker iron and reselling it elsewhere. Given that the secret was definitely out now, and the Khemetri were going to pursue the ability themselves, there was a lobby within the traders to simply lift the old restrictions and allow iron to be traded. Some even suggested that by doing it themselves they might suppress the spread of iron outside their control. They had the best quality because of experience, so if it was cheaper to buy from the People than to natively develop the smelting and then look for ore deposits. Not everyone was convinced... but then again it would probably keep them from doing something further stupid and get them to shut up about things.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Ooohhh boi. Faction politics. This is some narrative expansion upon those goals and we should pay attention

Already covered my thoughts on what we should do about iron. Interesting that the Khem are going for it, it makes sense really.

Not everyone was convinced... but then again it would probably keep them from doing something further stupid and get them to shut up about things.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Also note this bit. Either of "Trade the metal" or "Only finished goods" will probably make the trader quest disappear.
Which is a really good idea.

Academia Nut said:
What to do about iron trade?
[] [Iron] Crack down on resale (-1 Stability)
[] [Iron] Leave it be
[] [Iron] Open up the market for the metal
[] [Iron] Allow finished goods to be traded

Meanwhile the guilds were interested in expanding a number of operations, most notably glass since there was a high demand for the material for various other things - art and the storage of materials like vitriol or quicksilver - that had not entirely been filled before now. The priests were glaring daggers at them because their demands were going to rapidly start threatening the forests. According to them, if the guilds wanted all the charcoal and timber heavy projects they were pursuing they should grow the forests some more. The traders chimed in and suggested that a trading post in the far north would not only be able to tap into new markets, but there were those distant tales of giant trees. Imagine what the People could do with access to those markets!

The yeomen farmers were only asking for the relatively tame request of more land to farm and that the trails be in good enough condition to take their produce to market.

Feeling ignored, the Priests were stating that the temples needed to be improved in order to placate the wrath of the gods, who were not impressed by the bellicose and proud attitude the People had taken in recent generations.

Of course, some of that might be jealousy over the powers the priests of the Khemetri had, now that they were in communication with them, and had a better idea about them. While obviously the People's gods favoured locally, the priests of the Khemetri were backed up extensively by their king, and the People were so welcoming of others that the priests were clearly worried.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Again we should keep an eye on these grumblings.
As a comment, the priest problem with the Khem is likely being locally exacerbated and is not as bad as surface appearances may seem. It is something we need to keep in mind though and we do need to build temples. Hopefully infrastructure passive handles them.


Academia Nut said:
Cosmopolitan Acceptance -> Pride in Acceptance
The People see not outsiders but fellow humans in need of assistance, and are always willing to offer aid, knowing that even when friendship is uncertain the act of offering is a cleansing one.
Pros: Enhanced absorption of new ideas, +1 social value from current or historical neighbours, whenever a neighbour suffers a stability drop have the option to also suffer a stability drop in exchange for a large boost to Econ and technological and social advancement by absorbing especially large numbers of people, the first Econ boost a turn is free and the second only has a chance of causing a stability drop rather than a guaranteed drop, massively increased inward tech spread, new CBs
Cons: Many think you weak, no longer have the option to turn away the first two boosts, sometimes you get values you didn't expect, increased outward tech spread
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Ohhhhh Crow yes. Shower me with the Vampiric traits AN. Shower me!
Glad to see the first boost just gets absorbed entirely. Means we must be good at mitigating intra-refugee conflict and refugee-Ymaryn conflict.


Academia Nut said:
Wildcat Prospecting merges into Divine Stewards -> Personal Stewards of Nature
Through the blessings of the spirits and the efforts of the People in individual and whole, the land is reshaped, and its management and protection is a good above all others. No effort is to great when it comes to the stewardship of the land, and many pursue their own little projects where it does not conflict with the symphony of the whole
Pros: Bonuses to all actions relating to land management, bonuses when fighting on own terrain, additional Econ and Stability whenever completing a land management type Megaproject, may spend Stability to double the effort of megaprojects and in defensive wars, certain projects may receive additional actions at the midturn at the cost of Centralization
Cons: Additional strife caused by deliberate environmental disruption unless it is for the long term betterment of the land, or loss of territory to others
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Oh well that's nifty. We will have little pocket gardens springing up. I figure there will be much interaction on a very ground level of the exchange of gardening ideas what with PiA and J-Symph.


Academia Nut said:
Choose a new group to draw a PiA value from
[] [PiA] Khemetri (Probably Spiritual Value)
[] [PiA] Thunder Horse (Probably Honour Value)
[] [PiA] Highlanders (Probably In Service to Order)
[] [PiA] Trelli (Probably trade related)
[] [PiA] Swamp Folk (Probably Honour Value)
[] [PiA] Nomads (Probably Honour Value)

Choose a Personal Divinity reaction
[] [PDN] Push forward forests (Sec Expand Forests, -1 Centralization)
[] [PDN] Majorly push forward forests (Main Expand Forests, -2 Centralization)
[] [PDN] Bit more black soil (Sec Black Soil, -1 Centralization)
[] [PDN] Lots more black soil (Main Black Soil, -2 Centralization)
[] [PDN] Push forward farms (Sec Expand Econ, -1 Centralization)
[] [PDN] Massively push forward farms (Main Expand Econ, -2 Centralization)

Reaction for the turn
[] [React] Stand down army (Main Retraining)
[] [React] Reorganize army and hunt deserters (Found Mercenary Company + Sailing Mission (anti-pirate))
[] [React] Pre-emptively meet forest demand (Main Expand Forest)
[] [React] Meet yeoman demands (Sec New Settlement + Sec New Roads, meets Yeoman faction demands)
[] [React] Meet priest demands (2xSec Temple)
-[] [React] Sacred Forest
-[] [React] Dragon Graveyard
[] [React] Keep Working on the Docks (Adds another action towards the Grand Docks MP)
[] [React] Attempt to root out problems (Main Enforce Justice)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I already covered this.


*claps hands*
So! Fun times ahead!
Shit is not quite on fire but our ass is getting a lil hot.
 
Oh, one last thing that I want to open for discussion. With Personal Divinity, it seems like we're going to be able to produce tons of forests from now on (unless the options change each turn?) and we're going to spend Centralization almost as fast we can generate it. After a one turn to see another mid turn choice for it, it seems like it is in our best interest to switch our Passive Forestry to an Infrastructure (and maybe Defensive, since we get two switches per secondary).

As I understand it, most of our concerns about True Cities have been assuaged in recent updates (more build projects, way more ways to spend Centralization), and we should have the forest generation covered from now on, so it really does seem like the time to start building.
 
Last edited:
BungieONI said:
All of these are doable, but by Fyth's Tits some of them are stupid. *glares at the Patricians* *you guys have an angry spirit now, cut this shit out!*
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

"Yes!"

"BungieONI has seen the light on the evils of Nobility!"

"Come BungieONI! Join us on the Red side! We have free healthcare!"

*offers hand of friendship*
 
Last edited:
8bitBob said:
Oh, one last thing that I want to open for discussion. With Personal Divinity, it seems like we're going to be able to produce tons of forests from now on (unless the options change each turn?) and we're going to spend Centralization almost as fast we can generate it. After a one turn to see another mid turn choice for it, it seems like it is in our best interest to switch our Passive Forestry to an Infrastructure (and maybe Defensive, since we get two switches per secondary).

As I understand it, most of our concerns about True Cities have been assuaged in recent updates (more build projects, way more ways to spend Centralization), and we should have the forest generation covered from now on, so it really does seem like the time to start building.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Need more walls
 
[X] [Pox] Yes (Khemetri gain knowledge of how to do the Sacred Warding, the People gain Predictive Astrology)
[X] [Iron] Allow finished goods to be traded
[X] [PiA] Trelli (Probably trade related)
[X] [PDN] Majorly push forward forests (Main Expand Forests, -2 Centralization)
[X] [React] Reorganize army and hunt deserters (Found Mercenary Company + Sailing Mission (anti-pirate))
 
Candesce said:
I assure you, if the pirates are allowed to profit, they won't need any help spawning more pirates.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That is absolutely correct if we don't get a handle on it. Justice not only attacks the root of the problem, but it raises centralization, which is needed to ensure that pirates do not spawn from our shores as we have a tighter grip on our own affairs.
 
[X] [Pox] Yes (Khemetri gain knowledge of how to do the Sacred Warding, the People gain Predictive Astrology)
[X] [Iron] Allow finished goods to be traded
[X] [PiA] Highlanders (Probably In Service to Order)
[X] [PDN] Push forward forests (Sec Expand Forests, -1 Centralization)
[X] [React] Reorganize army and hunt deserters (Found Mercenary Company + Sailing Mission (anti-pirate))

I think hunting down our own men, who are part of the People yet still doing evil, is a good thing and will allow In Service to Order to have good precedent.

Meanwhile, without taking Enforce Justice to bring it back up, I think a low Centralisation-taking option would be best. The most Centralisation we have the better our King will be able to work.
 
Last edited:
Academia Nut said:
"We will have the royal court astrologers brought here the next time we come to teach you everything we know about the heavens and divining the future if your priests will teach us this magic."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Are these the same astrologers who thought you'd win?:V
Academia Nut said:
Yeomen- Objective: Obtain a new province and have 50% or greater trails coverage within 2 turns. Success: +1 Stability
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

No failure conditions? I'm afraid these young men are about to learn squeaky wheel gets the grease.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top