Just as a reminder to the thread, one of the big reasons to pick the admin king and not make Redshore a Free City was to let the Admin King purge the corruption from the city.

This is a very good point. I'm all for Trails and meeting the demands of the yeoman, but we kinda got get on this. We can always build next turn or the one after.
 
Because of their invitation to the Games, the Khemetri know of the Sacred Warding. Share the knowledge with them?
[] [Pox] Yes (Khemetri gain knowledge of how to do the Sacred Warding, the People gain Predictive Astrology)
[] [Pox] No (-2 Diplomacy, Khemetri feel snubbed)

Okay, the Khemetri are about the only people out there with the ability to do it without ruining themselves, while this would greatly boost our Place to the Stars when we get to it.
I'm up for it.

The main reason not to share it, after all, was that it's be amazingly destructive is mishandled.
And Predictive Astrology might allow us to maintain study stars streaks without full continuity. Tech jumping without doing the prereqs is great!

Faction quests:
Patricians - Objective: Build Chariots within 2 turns. Success: +1 Culture, Failure: -5 Wealth

Easily affordable cost, action is counterproductive to interests.

Guild - Objective: Build Glasswords within 3 turns. Success: +1 Tech & Culture, Failure: -3 Tech

Assuming it's glassworks, the cost is basically -0 Tech(since the reward pays for the action cost after arsenal) and a forest slot which we generate while producing Innovations. We can take this.

Traders - Objective: Obtain Leading status or better in a new trade good within 3 turns. Failure: -1 Stability

Fastest route is Pottery or Opium. No serious competition on the market. Opium is faster though. You don't need a lot to dominate
North Tradepost would meet it too.

Yeomen- Objective: Obtain a new province and have 50% or greater trails coverage within 2 turns. Success: +1 Stability

...this is impossible to pass.

Priests- Objective: Build a Level 2 Temple within 3 turns. Failure: -1 Legitimacy

This is not hard, I think the passive policy might actually do it for us if we spend a Secondary on the Sacred Forest temple.



What to do about iron trade?
[] [Iron] Crack down on resale (-1 Stability)

Futile. Pass.

[] [Iron] Leave it be

Deregulation. Pass

[] [Iron] Open up the market for the metal

Greatest profit.

[] [Iron] Allow finished goods to be traded

And this is the only one that actually slows the spread of iron, because everyone would be buying tools they can't match it'd cripple their domestic iron industries, even as it brings everyone to iron age.

Cosmopolitan Acceptance -> Pride in Acceptance
The People see not outsiders but fellow humans in need of assistance, and are always willing to offer aid, knowing that even when friendship is uncertain the act of offering is a cleansing one.
Pros: Enhanced absorption of new ideas, +1 social value from current or historical neighbours, whenever a neighbour suffers a stability drop have the option to also suffer a stability drop in exchange for a large boost to Econ and technological and social advancement by absorbing especially large numbers of people, the first Econ boost a turn is free and the second only has a chance of causing a stability drop rather than a guaranteed drop, massively increased inward tech spread, new CBs
Cons: Many think you weak, no longer have the option to turn away the first two boosts, sometimes you get values you didn't expect, increased outward tech spread
*Sucks Vigorously*

We're going to need to work on that Centralization. This will be expensive.


[] [PiA] Khemetri (Probably Spiritual Value)

We know this leads to their God-King stuff. Not sure if we actually want it. Disruptive to our system?

[] [PiA] Thunder Horse (Probably Honour Value)

We don't really know a lot about them except that they took in a lot of Xohyr values.

[] [PiA] Highlanders (Probably In Service to Order)

Hmm, this sounds like its good for us with Symphony synergy, and we DO have that tradition of destroying people we take lots of values from(e.g. Spirit Talkers, Xohyssiri, Hathatyn).
Fourth time's the charm?

[] [PiA] Trelli (Probably trade related)

Probably not good for us, it'd take the traders more out of control.

[] [PiA] Swamp Folk (Probably Honour Value)

No idea about them

[] [PiA] Nomads (Probably Honour Value)

Not likely to be values we want.

Choose a Personal Divinity reaction
[] [PDN] Push forward forests (Sec Expand Forests, -1 Centralization)
[] [PDN] Majorly push forward forests (Main Expand Forests, -2 Centralization)

Meets Glassworks requirement immediately.

[] [PDN] Bit more black soil (Sec Black Soil, -1 Centralization)
[] [PDN] Lots more black soil (Main Black Soil, -2 Centralization)

Pops cities

[] [PDN] Push forward farms (Sec Expand Econ, -1 Centralization)
[] [PDN] Massively push forward farms (Main Expand Econ, -2 Centralization)

Ends Pop Explosions.

b]Reaction for the turn[/b]
[] [React] Stand down army (Main Retraining)

Martial no longer red. Not needed.

[] [React] Reorganize army and hunt deserters (Found Mercenary Company + Sailing Mission (anti-pirate))

We need this I think. Coast Guard!
It should also gel with our Justice value: Our pirates going rogue are OUR responsibility and should be caught.

[] [React] Pre-emptively meet forest demand (Main Expand Forest)

We can do this with the PDN vote.

[] [React] Meet yeoman demands (Sec New Settlement + Sec New Roads, meets Yeoman faction demands)

Roads good, settlements not so good.

[] [React] Meet priest demands (2xSec Temple)
-[] [React] Sacred Forest
-[] [React] Dragon Graveyard

Incidentally, this might meet the Trader demands if we hit Dominant in Pilgrimage by expanding Sacred Forest.
But I think we should see if the Passive Policy takes it up.

[] [React] Keep Working on the Docks (Adds another action towards the Grand Docks MP)

This can potentially complete the project in the mid turn.

[] [React] Attempt to root out problems (Main Enforce Justice)

Meets no demands, but starts on rooting out the corruption immediately. Counterbalances the Centralization costs of expanding forests furiously.

[X] [Pox] Yes (Khemetri gain knowledge of how to do the Sacred Warding, the People gain Predictive Astrology)
[X] [Iron] Allow finished goods to be traded
[X] [PiA] Highlanders (Probably In Service to Order)
[X] [PDN] Majorly push forward forests (Main Expand Forests, -2 Centralization)
[X] [React] Reorganize army and hunt deserters (Found Mercenary Company + Sailing Mission (anti-pirate))

Lets take the Order social value before we destroy them.
It's the last sample in existence!
 
So I googled what predictive astrology was, because I didn't know what is was when I voted for it. This is what the Khem want to give us for Sacred Warding.

"Astrological progression is a part of what is usually called predictive astrology, the claim of astrology to predict or forecast future trends and developments. Most astrologers nowadays regard the term 'prediction' as something of a misnomer, as modern astrology does not claim to directly predict future events as such. Instead it is claimed that an astrological pattern with regard to the future can correspond with any one of a variety of possibilities. What is in fact foretold is the trend of circumstances and the nature of the individual's reaction to the situation [2] In other words, progressed and transiting movements of the planets indicate phases in the individual's life when the potential shown in the natal chart will be given opportunities for development, whether through favourable or unfavourable circumstances [3]
In addition all modern astrologers stress the role of free will. It is asserted that astrology does not reveal fate or patterns which are 'written in stone', rather it reveals a person's strengths and weakness, talents and opportunities. The horoscope does not determine the future, but shows the possible paths that lie ahead so that the individual can choose between them.[4] Modern astrologers argue that no planetary aspect brings a fate that cannot be counteracted in some way and some benefit derived from it - what actual events happen are largely dependent upon the freedom of choice of the individual.[5] The role of the astrologer is to create self-knowledge and awareness of the movement of the planets and their meaning, so as to give the individual an improved ability to make reasoned and sensible life choices.[6] In short, modern astrologers do not generally predict actual future events, or claim that the future is mapped out and determined."

Source: Astrological progression - Wikipedia
 
@Academia Nut
You need to threadmark the last post.
Vote Tally : Original - Paths of Civilization | Page 3773 | Sufficient Velocity [Posts: 94310-94372]
##### NetTally 1.9.9

Task: Pox

[29][Pox] Yes (Khemetri gain knowledge of how to do the Sacred Warding, the People gain Predictive Astrology)


——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: Iron

[24][Iron] Allow finished goods to be traded
[4][Iron] Open up the market for the metal
[1][Iron] Crack down on resale (-1 Stability)


——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: React

[15][React] Meet yeoman demands (Sec New Settlement + Sec New Roads, meets Yeoman faction demands)
[14][React] Reorganize army and hunt deserters (Found Mercenary Company + Sailing Mission (anti-pirate))
[3][React] Attempt to root out problems (Main Enforce Justice)
[1][React] Pre-emptively meet forest demand (Main Expand Forest)
[1][React] Stand down army (Main Retraining)


——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: PiA

[11][PiA] Trelli (Probably trade related)
[9][PiA] Highlanders (Probably In Service to Order)
[5][PiA] Swamp Folk (Probably Honour Value)
[4][PiA] Khemetri (Probably Spiritual Value)


——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: PDN

[21][PDN] Majorly push forward forests (Main Expand Forests, -2 Centralization)
[3][PDN] Push forward forests (Sec Expand Forests, -1 Centralization)
[1][PDN] Bit more black soil (Sec Black Soil, -1 Centralization)

Total No. of Voters: 30
 
[X] [Pox] Yes (Khemetri gain knowledge of how to do the Sacred Warding, the People gain Predictive Astrology)
[X] [Iron] Allow finished goods to be traded
[X] [React] Reorganize army and hunt deserters (Found Mercenary Company + Sailing Mission (anti-pirate)
[X] [PiA] Trelli (Probably trade related)
[X] [PDN] Massively push forward farms (Main Expand Econ, -2 Centralization)
Lets increase food production to keep up population boom.
 
I really feel like PiA could bite us in the ass.

Wouldn't be a trait without drawbacks. :V

Have to admit that i'm surprised at the sudden merge of wildcat and land steward trait. Did the animal moved onto our forests? Not toooooo happy about the "personnel project" part.
 
[X] [React] Attempt to root out problems (Main Enforce Justice)

[X] [Iron] Allow finished goods to be traded

[] [Pox] Yes (Khemetri gain knowledge of how to do the Sacred Warding, the People gain Predictive Astrology)
Nervous about this, now - @Susano brought up a valid point in private

[X] [PDN] Majorly push forward forests (Main Expand Forests, -2 Centralization)

[X] [PiA] Trelli (Probably trade related)
No god kings for the Ymaryn
 
Uncomfortable thought:

The Prince only thought about the effects Sacred Warding would have on the royal house.

Given the social stratification in Khemet, and seeing as the Royal House presents itself as divine anyway... they could maybe keep Sacred Warding for themselves. Present themselves even more so as divine, now as the only ones guaranteed without pox marks... It is powerful magic. Maybe magic only the divine blood deserves?
 
*looks through the Mod threadmarks*

....You guys made a THRITY PAGE arguement over Boats??? :jackiechan:

What the hell was it about to get a Mod to come down on you guys like that?!
Honestly? I wonder if Manus doesn't do a "hey. hey guys, you've gotta see this" to the other mods and just links posts in the thread so they can laugh explosively at the salt and vitriol. Like a demented intellectual version of 'funny injury' or 'bad decision' compilations on youtube.
 
[X] [Pox] Yes (Khemetri gain knowledge of how to do the Sacred Warding, the People gain Predictive Astrology)
[X] [Iron] Allow finished goods to be traded
[X] [PiA] Trelli (Probably trade related)
[X] [PDN] Majorly push forward forests (Main Expand Forests, -2 Centralization)
[X] [React] Reorganize army and hunt deserters (Found Mercenary Company + Sailing Mission (anti-pirate))
 
I will vote in morning, probably when it's too late to make a difference. Why I try to argue for next turn.

In the meantime, if no one is doing it already, I'd greatly appreciate someone figuring out if we even can complete all of the requests from our factions.

Also, @Academia Nut you need to threadmark the latest update.
 
Uncomfortable thought:

The Prince only thought about the effects Sacred Warding would have on the royal house.

Given the social stratification in Khemet, and seeing as the Royal House presents itself as divine anyway... they could maybe keep Sacred Warding for themselves. Present themselves even more so as divine, now as the only ones guaranteed without pox marks... It is powerful magic. Maybe magic only the divine blood deserves?
Not our problem?

And I don't see how they can keep that a secret for long, especially since trade ties will probably increase. "Only people with royal blood can be warded against the pox? That's weird. I guess every one of us Ymaryns must have royal blood or something." Information was transmitted slowly, but even God Kings couldn't clamp down on white common people talked about.

But also, they'd be stupid to not give the vaccine to their common people. If only because that means they'd have more warm bodies to build their tombs.
 
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Nervous about this, now - @Susano brought up a valid point in private
Uncomfortable thought:

The Prince only thought about the effects Sacred Warding would have on the royal house.

Given the social stratification in Khemet, and seeing as the Royal House presents itself as divine anyway... they could maybe keep Sacred Warding for themselves. Present themselves even more so as divine, now as the only ones guaranteed without pox marks... It is powerful magic. Maybe magic only the divine blood deserves?
Ah, and there it is
@Academia Nut do we have any assurances the khemetri will give the warding to their people?
 
Question for the thread-why so many going for Trelli values? I know that we have a hilarious number of dominant goods, but we quite frankly don't NEED a trade value to enhance them given that we already have a lot of support for trade. Why not what sounds like a cheap stability generator in the HK's trait?
 
Not our problem?

And I don't see how they can keep that a secret for long, especially since trade ties will probably increase. "Only people with royal blood can be warded against the pox? That's weird. I guess every one of us Ymaryns must have royal blood or something."
Two updates ago, the king of khemet married his many sisters and daughters off to the nobles of the ymaryn.
 
[X] [Pox] Yes (Khemetri gain knowledge of how to do the Sacred Warding, the People gain Predictive Astrology)
[X] [PDN] Majorly push forward forests (Main Expand Forests, -2 Centralization)
[X] [React] Meet yeoman demands (Sec New Settlement + Sec New Roads, meets Yeoman faction demands)
[X] [React] Attempt to root out problems (Main Enforce Justice)
[X] [Iron] Open up the market for the metal
[X] [Iron] Allow finished goods to be traded
[X] [PiA] Trelli (Probably trade related)
Our trade power is huge, and it might give us CB vs Trelli in anticipation of opening the straight.
 
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Patricians - Objective: Build Chariots within 2 turns. Success: +1 Culture, Failure: -5 Wealth
Guild - Objective: Build Glasswords within 3 turns. Success: +1 Tech & Culture, Failure: -3 Tech
Traders - Objective: Obtain Leading status or better in a new trade good within 3 turns. Failure: -1 Stability
Yeomen- Objective: Obtain a new province and have 50% or greater trails coverage within 2 turns. Success: +1 Stability
Priests- Objective: Build a Level 2 Temple within 3 turns. Failure: -1 Legitimacy
My thoughts on the Quests, in reverse order:

Priests - Easy enough to do, and something our passive policies can get done in a bit over one turn. At worst, we might need one secondary action to point them at it. Unfortunately, no reward.
Yeomen - These guys are awesome. They ask us for something we want to do anyway, and give stability without any loss condition for it.
Traders - These guys are NOT awesome. That -1 stability is the second-worse punishment on the field, if not the worst. Thankfully, we get this by starting to trade iron, which is already out at this point.
Guild - Solidly "Meh", which puts them ahead of everyone except the Yeomen. Balanced Reward/Punishment, and the Glassworks can be built with a Guild Action, so not a major problem except in that it requires a forest slot.
Patricians - Fuck these guys. They want us to build chariots of all things? At 23 martial? Fuckers.
 
[X] [Pox] Yes (Khemetri gain knowledge of how to do the Sacred Warding, the People gain Predictive Astrology)
[X] [Iron] Allow finished goods to be traded
[X] [PiA] Highlanders (Probably In Service to Order)
[X] [PDN] Majorly push forward forests (Main Expand Forests, -2 Centralization)
[X] [React] Attempt to root out problems (Main Enforce Justice)
 
Question for the thread-why so many going for Trelli values? I know that we have a hilarious number of dominant goods, but we quite frankly don't NEED a trade value to enhance them given that we already have a lot of support for trade. Why not what sounds like a cheap stability generator in the HK's trait?
Here is my own thought, though I am rather nervous of all traits left
Honestly, I don't think that going for an order trait would necessarily be the best. I can see the same thing happening with that as what people speculated choosing maintaining stability in our law for its core tenets would do: that being that lesser problems that could grow into greater problems are papered over for the thought of maintaining "order" and not causing a crisis, inadvertently causing a crisis further down the line when said problems go out of control.
 
[X] [Pox] Yes (Khemetri gain knowledge of how to do the Sacred Warding, thePeople gain Predictive Astrology)
[X] [Iron] Open up the market for the metal
[X] [PiA] Highlanders (Probably In Serviceto Order)
[X] [PDN] Majorly push forward forests(Main Expand Forests, -2 Centralization)
[X] [React] Reorganize army and huntdeserters (Found Mercenary Company + Sailing Mission (anti-pirate))

I like In Service to Order maybe it will help with holding the highlanders when we get them.
 
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