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Paths of Civilization

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Kiba said:
I dislike the inconvenient cost imposed by SF, so I do wanna pop it, but not before building that library.

OTOH, we do need to work on infrastructure projects such as the saltern to make the south or north happy. OTOH, the east and our vassals might feel neglected. It feels pretty hard to maintain a relationship with our subordinates and provinces as it is.
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I don't think popping it would help at all. It just means our Valleyhome true city only requires 12 to pop afterwards.

[X][Main] Grand Palace
[X] [Secondary] Build Docks
[X] [Secondary] Build Docks x2
 
Palace -> Census -> Law -> Golden Age and liberal use of Influence Subordinate and switching Lowland Minors from vassal to colony or march.
 
PrimalShadow said:
I'd like to do the Census. We can do it in a single turn, and it saves us from having to switch policies.

After that, we probably want to wait a bit on the law to get any crises out of the way and fill stability up to max. And absorb the stallions.
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Probably a great idea to put out any fires and get our stab high for the inevitable crisis that tax reform will cause. I'm thinking we may be on a spirits policy to build temples like last time hence why I want to build constant trails.
Umi-san said:
assuming the special is still around, maybe Grand Docks would be a good idea. But otherwise the Census + Law (Iron Age) + Games + Dam + Docks + Stars <3 <3
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You want to grab the Dam to make our power projection into the lowlands easier right? It may actually get done this time since the better construction tools and location (Catarcts) means you'll have enough of the factions on side for it.
 
veekie said:
Just a reminder, with the +5 Baby Boom, even if we pop it, it won't stay popped for more than a turn.

We don't even lose anything from it popping briefly since we aren't taking Econ 2 actions.
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Is that how cities work? They just "depop" when you eat up enough Econ Expansion for them to form? I would have thought it required something more; e.g. maxing out Econ.
 
PrimalShadow said:
Is that how cities work? They just "depop" when you eat up enough Econ Expansion for them to form? I would have thought it required something more; e.g. maxing out Econ.
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Well, narratively, when they "pop" its because even with our aqueducts, true cities of this era are terrible places to live in, so there needs to be enough pressure from lack of space to "push" people to move to the cities. Additionally, they result in much higher death rates, and consume more food than they produce by far. Those two reasons are the narratives behind "too many econ expansion slots" and "too little econ" for true cities popping; either people decide there's enough room in the countryside that they don't need to pack themselves like sardines int he city, or the city just can't be supported and people have to move out to the farms again.
Mechanically, i think we've only lost our cities once, and that was when we had the major refugee chance with some options saying only valleyhome would get back to true city, and some saying both valleyhome and Sacred forest would. That was from too much expansion slots, and the solution was packing enough people into the civ that they had to go to the cities (that is, lowering expansion slots). I dont remember how the numbers compared but apparently there's a higher requirement to regain than there is to keep it:
Academia Nut said:
No real penalties, although you do lose long term econ since gaining is harder than keeping True City status.
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Which makes sense. Its easier for people to decide to stay in the city where they are, than to convince them to leave their farm or loosely populated settlement, and go to the city.
 
Oh @Academia Nut since the question came up among other people but was not directed at you last night, what war ends count as non-destructive for Joyous Symphony?

Basically do White Peace's, Extra Tribute, Demand Territory, Vassalization, etc count?

Thank you for your time!
 
ETA50M said:
Probably a great idea to put out any fires and get our stab high for the inevitable crisis that tax reform will cause. I'm thinking we may be on a spirits policy to build temples like last time hence why I want to build constant trails.
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I'm not sure about building temples, but there are a couple of turns worth of actions that I think need taking:
  1. Pop a mercenary company. Integrate the stallions. Pop a second mercenary company. We need to do something like this to integrate the stallions, and we want to integrate the stallions if possible. Also, three mercenary companies should hopefully give us a legacy.
  2. Trails EVERYWHERE! We should be able to get enough to get +1 cent tolerance, at least.
  3. Stability to 3. Start Golden Age. Self-explanatory.
I think it makes sense to finish these things up before we start The Law. There are other actions that may or may not make sense depending on context, but these are ones I think we almost certainly want to do before starting the megaproject.
 
I don't like popping up mercenary companies like crazy. We have to work to make sure we are dominant in X product. We now have six dominance we have to maintain.
 
Kiba said:
I don't like popping up mercenary companies like crazy. We have to work to make sure we are dominant in X product. We now have six dominance we have to maintain.
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Thankfully, we won't eat stab hits for losing them, since we lost center of trade.
 
ETA50M said:
Probably a great idea to put out any fires and get our stab high for the inevitable crisis that tax reform will cause. I'm thinking we may be on a spirits policy to build temples like last time hence why I want to build constant trails.

You want to grab the Dam to make our power projection into the lowlands easier right? It may actually get done this time since the better construction tools and location (Catarcts) means you'll have enough of the factions on side for it.
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Yes. I want the Dam so that a) we can finally have the damned dam, b) can build a canal to allow for easy ship flow into the lowlands, which will basically alter literally everything that the lowlands means for us, and c) so that we can do Dam Infrastructure projects and start rehabilitating the north.
 
I'd like to note that with the new Influence Subordinate action, the urgency behind integrating the Stallion Tribes is massively reduced.
 
Kiba said:
I don't like popping up mercenary companies like crazy. We have to work to make sure we are dominant in X product. We now have six dominance we have to maintain.
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We ccurrently have +2 wealth/turn thanks to our salterns and trade posts. With two more main actions (saltern + NTP or saltern + saltern) we can have +3 wealth/turn.
 
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Godwinson said:
I'd like to note that with the new Influence Subordinate action, the urgency behind integrating the Stallion Tribes is massively reduced.
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yeah the urgency behind it is massively reduced.

But influencing has a high stat cost, and integrating them will allow us to make a new March better positioned to protect the Western Wall.
 
PrimalShadow said:
I'm not sure about building temples, but there are a couple of turns worth of actions that I think need taking:
  1. Pop a mercenary company. Integrate the stallions. Pop a second mercenary company. We need to do something like this to integrate the stallions, and we want to integrate the stallions if possible. Also, three mercenary companies should hopefully give us a legacy.
  2. Trails EVERYWHERE! We should be able to get enough to get +1 cent tolerance, at least.
  3. Stability to 3. Start Golden Age. Self-explanatory.
I think it makes sense to finish these things up before we start The Law. There are other actions that may or may not make sense depending on context, but these are ones I think we almost certainly want to do before starting the megaproject.
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Probably going to have to add Finish the Census in there too since that's listed as a pre-req.

Though to be frank as an aside, on the off chance we don't need the Census in order to start the Law I'm gonna come right out and say I think it's a bad idea to try for the Law without the Census.

Going into the Law with all the pre-reqs sorted sounds like a really good idea to me.
 
BungieONI said:
Probably going to have to add Finish the Census in there too since that's listed as a pre-req.
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Sorry if I wasn't clear, but that whole thing was in the context of having finished Census first. I am strongly of the opinion that we should take a Main Census action next turn so that we can one-turn it with the help of our provinces without needing to policy-switch first.
 
[X][Main] More Boats
[X] [Main] Found Mercenary Company
[X][Secondary] Expand Economy

Boats are good. Mercs also help.
 
PrimalShadow said:
Sorry if I wasn't clear, but that whole thing was in the context of having finished Census first. I am strongly of the opinion that we should take a Main Census action next turn so that we can one-turn it with the help of our provinces without needing to policy-switch first.
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Ahh okay. Thanks for clarifying.

I completely agree.
 
PrimalShadow said:
Sorry if I wasn't clear, but that whole thing was in the context of having finished Census first. I am strongly of the opinion that we should take a Main Census action next turn so that we can one-turn it with the help of our provinces without needing to policy-switch first.
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I agree, we should start the census next turn, regardless of whatever else we need to do.

We've been putting it off for a long time, and the sooner we get it done the better.
 
Raichu1972 said:
I agree, we should start the census next turn, regardless of whatever else we need to do.

We've been putting it off for a long time, and the sooner we get it done the better.
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Just a few turns less than the palace if I recall correctly. Hrmm... I can't actually remember.

I wonder what tasty tasty bonuses it will give?

Anyone up for speculating?
 
Umi-san said:
yeah the urgency behind it is massively reduced.

But influencing has a high stat cost, and integrating them will allow us to make a new March better positioned to protect the Western Wall.
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Nothing in this quest is free. Integrating costs less stats than Influencing, because it has much higher costs elsewhere. Narratively speaking, integrating means removing privileges that the Stallion Tribes have had since "time immemorial" and directly adding their administrative burdens to our own, plus the difficulty in reconciling any differences in administrative practice between the core and the march.

Just because the cost isn't listed and quantified, doesn't mean it isn't there.
 
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