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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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It just ocurred to me not everyone might have had this in mind, but one of the reasons it'll be difficult to convince Homura to tell Madoka everything (I think we're doing a good job btw), is that Homura basically wished to be in a position of power in regads to Madoka.

Same thing that allows her to become a 'Devil' and put Madoka into a position of powerlessness.

"I-" Homura's jaw clenches, voice tight with restrained emotion. "I don't want her near this. She asked me to keep her away from being a magical girl, she needs to be protected from this."
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Homura doesn't want Madoka to be in danger, but wants to be the one to keep Madoka safe. It's kind of a gray area.

Of course, this is all the more tragic if, as has been theorized, Homura's power was fundamentally meant to be used besides Madoka's, not over it.
 
SaltyWaffles said:
Homura is willing to become a devil to give Madoka happiness/save her. I don't think she'd object so much to Madoka learning about Homura's sins.
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That's a problem, one that we're trying to fix. The intent of forgiving Homura is so that she stops thinking like that in the first place.
TheEyes said:
We were also supposed to bring up why we think talking to Madoka about the time loops will help, namely that, once Madoka realizes exactly how much pain she's causing Homura by throwing her soul away she'll be convinced to not do it.
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Handled in the previous update here:
Firnagzen said:
"When this is all over, when Walpurgisnacht has fallen," you say, putting gentle emphasis on the 'when'. "I think Madoka would swear off making a Wish for your sake if she knew about the loops."

For the second time in a few minutes, Homura freezes, breath catching in the back of her throat. She's so still she might as well have been caught in her own timestop, if it weren't for the fact that she isn't trapped in monochrome shades of grey.

"I know," you say quietly. "But we are going to beat Walpurgisnacht, and whatever comes after... If Madoka has her friends safe, including you, Homura, and if she knew the effort and sacrifice it's taken to get you here today? She'll respect that. She's like that, you know?"
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And then Brinapilot saved us from our own stupidity and decided that our chosen argument was untenable here:
Firnagzen said:
"What other times?" Homura whispers, lifting her eyes to meet yours.

You bite your lip, realising the landmine you stepped on. Times that never happened, indeed: When Homura won. Something vague, then.
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And fell back to the next best thing, drawn from thread bleed instead of vote-text.
 
Vebyast said:
And then Brinapilot saved us from our own stupidity and decided that our chosen argument was untenable here:
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I wouldn't say it was thread stupidity, so much as voting for every contingence has lead to bloated votes, so the stupidity would be to keep doing that instead of allowing the character we've built to act accordingly to her experiences (which she has now! :V).

Also, the vote was followed, as a guideline, not point by point.

Partial save there, though. Good thing Homu didn't insist on asking!
 
Well, there's no really loop in which she won, there's the loop in which she took her teenage rebellion phase and her coming out of the closet, mashed them up together, and made an extreme sport out of them.
 
When we come back to this topic in the future, I think we really need to bring up the fact that Madoka's ignorance makes her vulnerable to Kyubey. It's a line of reasoning that Homura can relate to.


cmwatford said:
I don't understand. Why would knowledge of alternate timelines where Homu won be a land mine?
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Besides the ideas suggested by others, I could foresee a certain degree of existential crisis in the idea of alternate timelines that she didn't create. If there's a timeline in which she succeeded, then why does this timeline exist? Who reset that timeline to drop her in this mess?

From our perspective they're different tellings of the same story, but from an in-universe perspective like Homura's, how do we explain them in a way she could believe?
 
The Narrator said:
When we come back to this topic in the future, I think we really need to bring up the fact that Madoka's ignorance makes her vulnerable to Kyubey. It's a line of reasoning that Homura can relate to.
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Agreed. "Don't be tricked" is, I think, one of the keys.

Agreed on "when" we come back to this in the future. Steady pressure is an excellent way to convince people. Let Homura think about the whole thing, let her digest this piece, and then we'll make another stab at it once she's stabilized.
The Narrator said:
From our perspective they're different tellings of the same story, but from an in-universe perspective like Homura's, how do we explain them in a way she could believe?
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Pretty much the same, with Madoka's wish as a mediator. It's simple to imagine that we were equipped with stories about how things went and how things can or could go to help teach us how to help. We've also already established that our metaknowledge isn't reliable, reinforcing the argument.
 
Yeah, we might have been able to explain it as part of Madoka's last Godwish, but I don't think Homu has it in her to social with us much more.

We should concentrate on stablizing her, and making sure she can keep Mitakihara safe while we're Asunaro Caw Caw.
 
The Narrator said:
Her ribbons eventually dissolve when they use up their magic. She's have to keep remaking them every night.
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This isn't that big of a deal, really. We have infinite magic and the Japanese are kind of used to unpacking their entire sleeping spaces and converting the space into a day-space. It's the whole point of futons.

The Narrator said:
Besides the ideas suggested by others, I could foresee a certain degree of existential crisis in the idea of alternate timelines that she didn't create. If there's a timeline in which she succeeded, then why does this timeline exist? Who reset that timeline to drop her in this mess?

From our perspective they're different tellings of the same story, but from an in-universe perspective like Homura's, how do we explain them in a way she could believe?
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We can just tell her these are hypothetical realities that could have existed, but didn't. It's not that big a deal.
 
So...I've been thinking that, perhaps, so long as we went about it the right way, Madoka making a Wish wouldn't be a bad thing? We'd ensure that there would be no possibility of her Witching out (and with a plentiful supply of Clear Seeds, she'd be set for life regardless). She wouldn't even have to fight Witches, necessarily, but even if Madoka insisted on doing so, she'd be backed up by (at a minimum) Homura, if not also Sabrina, Mami, and Sayaka.

More importantly, a Madoka-tier Wish could allow us to do things that, simply put, we would never be able to do otherwise, no matter how much time we had. Things like removing every Witch from existence just before they could be born, past, present, and future--without the whole "with my own hands" part that turns Madoka into a concept. If anything, Rebellion proves that one can separate the Law of Cycles (which removes all Witches just before they can be born) and Madoka and have both still function normally. And since Wishes are based on intent, not wording, it should automatically avoid unintended negative effects. This is more important than it seems: we simply have no other means (nor will we ever have any other means) of "rescuing" Grief Seeds already collected by Incubators, nor would we be able to do anything for the magical girls of other species (as in, non-humans) that no doubt exist--not for a very, very long time, if ever (the universe is an unfathomably big place).

Has Firn commented about this possibility at all?
 
SaltyWaffles said:
This is more important than it seems: we simply have no other means (nor will we ever have any other means) of "rescuing" Grief Seeds already collected by Incubators, nor would we be able to do anything for the magical girls of other species (as in, non-humans) that no doubt exist--not for a very, very long time, if ever (the universe is an unfathomably big place).
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That's defeatist. Sabrina's witch, Dedolere, can become an ontological threat, and the power of a witch scales with the power of it's originating magical girl.

I strongly suspect that attaining both of those things ourselves is entirely possible.
 
SaltyWaffles said:
So...I've been thinking that, perhaps, so long as we went about it the right way, Madoka making a Wish wouldn't be a bad thing? We'd ensure that there would be no possibility of her Witching out (and with a plentiful supply of Clear Seeds, she'd be set for life regardless). She wouldn't even have to fight Witches, necessarily, but even if Madoka insisted on doing so, she'd be backed up by (at a minimum) Homura, if not also Sabrina, Mami, and Sayaka.

More importantly, a Madoka-tier Wish could allow us to do things that, simply put, we would never be able to do otherwise, no matter how much time we had. Things like removing every Witch from existence just before they could be born, past, present, and future--without the whole "with my own hands" part that turns Madoka into a concept. If anything, Rebellion proves that one can separate the Law of Cycles (which removes all Witches just before they can be born) and Madoka and have both still function normally. And since Wishes are based on intent, not wording, it should automatically avoid unintended negative effects. This is more important than it seems: we simply have no other means (nor will we ever have any other means) of "rescuing" Grief Seeds already collected by Incubators, nor would we be able to do anything for the magical girls of other species (as in, non-humans) that no doubt exist--not for a very, very long time, if ever (the universe is an unfathomably big place).

Has Firn commented about this possibility at all?
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I would VERY, VERY STRONGLY not try to do a "Law of Cycles with no Madoka retgone" wish even if I was pro-Madoka contracting. Like...Rebellion isn't proof of jack shit because we have no idea what the long-term consequences of that ending is, and the Concept Movie implies that Ultimate Gretchen is a threat.

Like, this idea might legitimately destroy the entire fucking universe.
 
UbeOne said:
CMR?
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Crimson Memories Repeat, the third best RWBY fic of all time and the best RWBY fic of all time by combat scenes (heads up though, chapter 1 is shit). I don't want to talk about it.

Redshirt Army said:
[x] Dinner Date Dinner time with Mami.
-[x] Drop Homura off somewhere, if she wants.
-[x] Be sappy and affectionate.
--[x] Keep conversation light during dinner, if you can. No heavy topics, just Mamifluff.
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Okay so we have two options at dinner but mostly I think we've already opted for the second because Mami has dealt with enough shit today. So I'm not even going to talk about that.

Instead I am going to write my pre-existing "fluffy dinner w. mami" vote.

Oooooooooooh, hey, Firn, we could do a TASK vote test here...

[x] [HOMURA] Redshirt Army
[x] [MAMI] Dinner Date Dinner time with Mami.
-[x] Aim for substantive but light conversation, both to get Mami's mind firmly away from other things and to learn more about her. Why Italy? What has she dreamed of doing? Etc.
--[x] Answer any questions honestly to the fullest extent, bar "bad" information.
---[x] Be affectionate. All the time.

The above is something I've wanted to do for a long time, because the fact of the matter is that as well as we know Mami we don't actually know a whole lot about her.
 
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What if @Redshirt Army was constantly looking for vote components to shamelessly steal and modify before adding to his own?

[X] Wrap the conversation up. Let Homura compose herself. Some light discussion if it seems appropriate. Perhaps about your new surname?
-[x] Ask Homura to get back to you with a time for that shopping trip and that science session.
-[x] If she has any issues at all... you're always happy to talk.

[x] Dinner Date Dinner time with Mami.
-[x] Aim for substantive but pleasant and light conversation, both to get Mami's mind firmly away from other things and to learn more about her. Why Italy? What has she dreamed of doing? Etc.
--[x] Answer any questions she asks in turn honestly to the fullest extent, bar "bad" information.
---[x] Be affectionate. All the time.

Oh, wait, this hypothetical situation isn't hypothetical at all!
 
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Spontaneously organizing tasks for ourselves is actually an excellent idea that I'm all on board with.

[x] Redshirt Army
 
@Vebyast , among others, made me consider that letting Homura and Sabrina have a comfortable silence would probably work better than forcing conversation.

[X] Let Homura compose herself, while being reassuring and supportive. Wrap the conversation up. If the silence gets stifling, some light discussion if it seems appropriate.
-[x] Ask Homura to get back to you with a time for that shopping trip and that science session.
-[x] If she has any issues at all... you're always happy to talk, or be a shoulder to lean on.

[x] Dinner Date Dinner time with Mami.
-[x] Aim for substantive but pleasant and light conversation, both to get Mami's mind firmly away from other things and to learn more about her. Why Italy? What has she dreamed of doing? Etc.
--[x] Answer any questions she asks in turn honestly to the fullest extent, bar "bad" information.
---[x] Be affectionate. All the time.
 
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