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Paths of Civilization

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Next turn we should also aim for double roads and a wealth generating action to offset our constant wealth drain each turn. Yeah picking some territory would be better @fictionfan but the HK are a dagger to our necks that will strike sooner or later better now when we have them on the backfoot.
 
Oh also @Candesce on closer look my original vote can send us to -1 Econ if True City takes it's -1 before the refugees come but I am pretty sure refugees come at the beginning of the main turn and True City tax happens at the end of the main turn going into the mid turn.

Not sure though. Does anyone know?
 
Why are people voting to not take the free wealth from the Highlanders, but are voting to send econ to the lowland minors? That's nuts.
 
maximillian said:
It's the only way to eliminate them as a threat.
We are an existential threat to them, they will attack us the second we blink, we absolutely cannot afford that, not when engaged in a southern war, a potential northern war, and a bloody tax crisis.
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We can likely wipe them out with less risk to ourselves by taking in more refugees. A new vassel will cost us just as much or more stab lose.
 
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maximillian said:
It's the only way to eliminate them as a threat.
We are an existential threat to them, they will attack us the second we blink, we absolutely cannot afford that, not when engaged in a southern war, a potential northern war, and a bloody tax crisis.
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It's sound logic, but with Divine Stewards it's risky...
 
pblur said:
It's sound logic, but with Divine Stewards it's risky...
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It also only delays the problem, since we proved their existential fear right.

They are going to stab us in the back some time in the future unless we Civ Kill them.

Yipiee...

*reaches for the strong drinks, guzzles*
 
Glassware said:
would taking the minimum value for the Highlanders teach them that we're not out to conquer them, or would they just think we have other things on our minds (which we do)?
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Could go either way.

Glassware said:
@Academia Nut, if we skip on options for the lowlanders this mid-turn, how regularly will we have the chance to do them again assuming we don't end up going to war with them? If we can steadily quash their obnoxious practices one at a time over generations rather than all at once I would obviously prefer it.
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It will likely come up again, so progressively clawing away the issues is a possibility.

Susano said:
@Academia Nut :

How would debating the priests in one task and cracking down on them on the other even work out? Could you even have a meaningful debate then? Would the crackdown weaken the lowlander side in the debate, or make them think this is all a set-up and hence feel more justified?
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Basically you're debating them in the core territories and breaking up their secular power in the lowlands.

Da Boyz said:
Right so posting this all at once so I don't clog up the thread with questions.

@Academia Nut

1. Between Lord's Loyalty, Vassal Lords, The Swamp People banging on their doors, our recent displays of military might and the lack of centralized authority in the LM exactly to what extent is the chance of war mitigated if we decided to enforce the spirit of the law? How would this change if we gave assistance, taught mills and black soil.
2. What are the Heaven's Hawk doing during this time?
3. Exactly how many years have the Red Banner had to rest and recoup their numbers? Given the influx of fresh blood has their been headway on purging the Lowland traits from them?
4. What states would we be vamping Econ from?
5. If we deployed the Red Banner would it be possible to force ceding of territory this turn?
6. Is the stability loss from enforcing our laws tied to going to war with the LM or is it independent?
7. While it doesn't seem enough to generate stability would our people be reassured if we managed to enforce our laws?
8. If she judges the situation to be too precarious will Rulwyna take action?
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1. The chance of rebellion is dependent upon what other things are done in the same turn.
2. Getting swole, they have new neighbours
3. They've spent about ten years cycling members and assisting in the training of new generation of warriors in the core territories
4. Highlanders, Thunder Speakers, Thunder Horse, Swamp Folk, the other lowland minors, what people are still kicking in former Hathatyn territory... basically everyone in the south and east
5. It will distinctly help, but not guaranteed
6. Independent, although them going to war will not incur additional stab loss
7. It might help
8. Possibly

ctulhuslp said:
would accepting more refugees give more bragging rights to our priests due to our gods clearly favouring us because look at our stable weather?
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It can, but it also brings in new voices to debate.

VoidZero said:
On a scale of pinch of salt in your coffee and salt raining from sky, how panicked are you at the current events?
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I can make the thread panic by whispering "taxes", I ain't salty at all. Plus, it gives you all something to do and be challenged by. Since you developed currency and haven't developed the palace or census it has been a race to see whether you would have a liquidity crisis or tax crisis first. You've developed a lot of advantages, but there are consequences to rushing up one leg of the tech tree.

ETA50M said:
Did we gain any stats from the transferred province @Academia Nut ?
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Yes, you did, and I need to correct something now that I think about it.
 
BungieONI said:
It also only delays the problem, since we proved their existential fear right.

They are going to stab us in the back some time in the future unless we Civ Kill them.

Yipiee...

*reaches for the strong drinks, guzzles*
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"Here" *Takes cup from bungie and squeezes a shot of red liquid into it.*

"Spiked with genuine lowlands econ. My grain yields only the best."
 
Honestly I am voting for the debates simply because it seems in line with the thought process of Love of Wisdom, rather than squashing opposing debate because we don't like what they say (yes, I realize it could also possibly be dangerous for our religion). That said, I can definitely see why one would vote for squashing debate. It falls into that whole grey category of "squashing some [conceptA] to save [conceptA] as a whole." It's similar to introducing anti-democratic measures, such as limiting free speech, in order to ensure that everyone gets to vote and have a voice.
 
pblur said:
"Here" *Takes cup from bungie and squeezes a shot of red liquid into it.*

"Spiked with genuine lowlands econ. My grain yields only the best."
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"Aww thanks my good friend."

*starts quietly muttering into the drink in some nasty language*

*Thunder rumbles outside the Throne Room*
 
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VoidZero said:
We are looking to eat up ST and that would free up a spot; we aren't in any position to setup sub-states anyway. So it does make sense to use the spot to release some budget (1 economy drain per turn ) and managing (-1 cent cap) pressure.
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Eating ST isn't going to happen for like 5+ turns at the bare minimum.

1 slot open only is less than I'd like just speaking from a reactive perspective. There's simply too much that can happen (ie nomad king again snowballs into subjugating another couple polities)
 
Academia Nut said:
I can make the thread panic by whispering "taxes", I ain't salty at all. Plus, it gives you all something to do and be challenged by. Since you developed currency and haven't developed the palace or census it has been a race to see whether you would have a liquidity crisis or tax crisis first. You've developed a lot of advantages, but there are consequences to rushing up one leg of the tech tree.
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"It is proven! The universe is an uncaring universe, we are but a mere idle thought made by a dreaming god. We are NOTHING!"

Edit: My new avatar really is fitting in light of current development.
 
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[X] [RA] Increase debates to determine the truth (-2 to +2 Religious Authority based on success of debates, potential shift in Spiritual Values)

[X] [Low] Force them to follow the spirit of the law (Potential stability loss, potential war with vassal)
[X] [Low] Introduce black soil to improve their conditions (Teaches black soil to vassal)
[X] [Low] Introduce mill technology to improve their conditions (Teaches water mill to vassal)
[X] [Low] Send over assistance (Transfer 1 Econ + 1 Martial)

[X] [City] Yes (Transfers 2 Econ + 2 Econ expansion, nulls cost of maintenance for Sacred Forest)

[X] [React] Main Improve Annual Festival

[X] [Refugee] Just those who come of theirown initiative (Potential stab loss, +2 Econ)
 
Welp at least the 5 Econ means the current leading vote of

[23][RA] Increase debates to determine the truth (-2 to +2 Religious Authority based on success of debates, potential shift in Spiritual Values)
-[23][Low] Introduce black soil to improve their conditions (Teaches black soil to vassal)
-[20][Low] Force them to follow the spirit of the law (Potential stability loss, potential war with vassal)
-[17][Low] Introduce mill technology to improve their conditions (Teaches water mill to vassal)
[10][High] Humiliate (+1 Prestige, completes immediately)
[8][RB] Deploy to assist vassal against the Swamp Folk
-[15][React] Main Improve Annual Festival
[15][City] Yes (Transfers 2 Econ + 2 Econ expansion, nulls cost of maintenance for Sacred Forest)
-[12][Refugee] Bring in a bit more than usual (-1 Stab, potential further loss, +4-5 Econ)

Is safe stat wise!

*whimpers*

*grabs the stronger drinks*

Fucking everything...
 
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[X] [RA] Stamp down on all of this (-2 Stability, +2 Religious Authority)

[X] [Low] Restrict right to wage war to defensive only (Potential stability loss, potential war with vassal)

[X] [High] Extra tribute (+2 Prestige, +2 Wealth, probably completes this turn)

[X] [RB] Deploy to assist vassal against the Swamp Folk

[X] [React] Main Expand Forests

[X] [City] No

[X] [Refugee] Just those who come of their own initiative (Potential stab loss, +2 Econ)

Risk of reaching -2 Stab, but it would keep our Econ and Rel Auth nice and stocked.
Here's hoping the dice like us/Rulwyna2 saves us.

EDIT: Got Ninja'd by Econ 5! Woo, now to re-jigger my vote.
Switched from Mills to Trees, since the People should have faith in the trees if nothing else.
 
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