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Paths of Civilization

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Early Tally

Vote Tally : Original - Paths of Civilization | Page 2770 | Sufficient Velocity [Posts: 69259-69363]
##### NetTally 1.9.9
Task: RA
[13][RA] Increase debates to determine the truth (-2 to +2 Religious Authority based on success of debates, potential shift in Spiritual Values)
[3][RA] Stamp down on all of this (-2 Stability, +2 Religious Authority)
[1][RA] The correct gods will make themselves known (-1 Religious Authority, potential shift in Spiritual Values)
[1][RA] Increase debates to determine the truth (-2 to +2 Religious Authority based on success of debates, potential
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Low
[15][Low] Introduce black soil to improve their conditions (Teaches black soil to vassal)
[12][Low] Force them to follow the spirit of the law (Potential stability loss, potential war with vassal)
[10][Low] Introduce mill technology to improve their conditions (Teaches water mill to vassal)
[8][Low] Send over assistance (Transfer 1 Econ + 1 Martial)
[7][Low] Crack down on their priests (-1 Stability, potential war with vassal, potential +1 Religious authority)
[5][Low] Permit their use of iron tools (Allows iron tools to be traded to vassal)
[4][Low] Restrict right to wage war to defensive only (Potential stability loss, potential war with vassal)
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: High
[7][High] Humiliate (+1 Prestige, completes immediately)
[5][High] Extra tribute (+2 Prestige, +2 Wealth, probably completes this turn)
[5][High] Subjugate (+5 Prestige, +5 Wealth, gain new vassal, unlikely to complete this turn)
[1][High] Demand territory (+3 Prestige, +3 Wealth, +2 Econ, +4 Econ expansion, -1 Centralization, requires further military commitment, likely requires more actions)
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: RB
[5][RB] Deploy north to guard against nomads
[5][RB] Deploy to assist vassal against the Swamp Folk
[4][RB] Deploy against Highlanders from Hatvalley
[3][RB] Deploy against Highlanders from Valleyhome
[2][RB] Remain at rest
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: React
[11][React] Main Improve Annual Festival
[4][React] Main Expand Econ
[2][React] Main Build Mills
[1][React] Main Expand Forests
[1][React] Main Survey
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: City
[8][City] Yes (Transfers 2 Econ + 2 Econ expansion, nulls cost of maintenance for Sacred Forest)
[6][City] No
[1][City] Yes
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Refugee
[9][Refugee] Bring in a bit more than usual (-1 Stab, potential further loss, +4-5 Econ)
[6][Refugee] Just those who come of their own initiative (Potential stab loss, +2 Econ)
[2][Refugee] Let everyone know that your environment is stable (-3 Stab, potential further loss, +9-11 Econ, ???)
[1][Refugee] Encourage people to abandon their homes for you territory (-2 Stab, potential further loss, +6-8 Econ)
[1][Refugee] Bring in absolutely everyone you can (-4 Stab, potential further loss, +11-14 Econ, overcrowding, ???)
Total No. of Voters: 17

Don't panic yet, thread

There's been a lot of stating of opinion so far, but we really should try debating each other before voting really takes off.
 
People gaming the system to gain wealth while doing no work but shuffling around luxuries and currency? Smh we brought the stock market a couple of millennia early we deserve to be destroyed
 
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Hm...I'm thinking about the Highlanders. They basically think we're going to conquer them due to insurmountable tech advantage, right? What if we can prove them wrong?

@Academia Nut, would taking the minimum value for the Highlanders teach them that we're not out to conquer them, or would they just think we have other things on our minds (which we do)?
 
Hot debate points before i go to bed.

"Gods protects all our believers, it is vital we give back to the gods; what is better then blood freely spilled?"

"A. Xoh capital is burnt to a crisp, so obviously protection isn't there.
B. Our gods made no demand of blood spilling and we are doing great!
C. Has your gods made weather sufferings any less for their followers? Are they protected from the famine, the diseases, or the war? No your gods are powerless and relied on our gods for food, for cure, and was destroyed when you continued to spill innocent blood."
 
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Candesce said:
[X] [RA] Increase debates to determine the truth (-2 to +2 Religious Authority based on success of debates, potential shift in Spiritual Values)

[X] [Low] Force them to follow the spirit of the law (Potential stability loss, potential war with vassal)
[X] [Low] Introduce black soil to improve their conditions (Teaches black soil to vassal)
[X] [Low] Introduce mill technology to improve their conditions (Teaches water mill to vassal)

[X] [High] Humiliate (+1 Prestige, completes immediately)

[X] [RB] Deploy to assist vassal against the Swamp Folk

[X] [City] Yes (Transfers 2 Econ + 2 Econ expansion, nulls cost of maintenance for Sacred Forest)

[X] [React] Main Expand Econ

[X] [Refugee] Just those who come of theirown initiative (Potential stab loss, +2 Econ)
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Okay so I like this vote and pretty much agree, but I got questions for clarification and debate.

What is your reasoning on the Lowlander vote?

Are you concerned or not with the RB going further native by sending them to the SP?

Note that I actually support these options, but I want your reasoning.

If you so wish do you want to explain anything else? I missed some of the discussion while thinking.
 
[X] [RB] Deploy north to guard against nomads
[X][High] Extra tribute (+2 Prestige, +2 Wealth, probably completes this turn)
A bit of tweaking.
 
[X] [RA] Increase debates to determine the truth (-2 to +2 Religious Authority based on success of debates, potential shift in Spiritual Values)

It is the proper way to search for turth. Also if our people do it right they will learn far more about arguments and how to find the turth.

[X] [Low] Force them to follow the spirit of the law (Potential stability loss, potential war with vassal)

Once again the right thing to do. Those laws exist for a reason. Also good to have a military presence in case the debates get heated.

[X] [Low] Introduce black soil to improve their conditions (Teaches black soil to vassal)

Caring for the land is a big part of our culture. We are planning on assimilate eventually.

[X] [Low] Introduce mill technology to improve their conditions (Teaches water mill to vassal)

Want a better way to get work done then slavery.

[X] [High] Humiliate (+1 Prestige, completes immediately)

I want this war over and do not need or want more land.

[X] [RB] Deploy to assist vassal against the Swamp Folk

I want them to be part of the debates and given we are meaning to crack down anyway.

[X] [React] Main Improve Annual Festival

We need more stability and this a way to get it. Also a great a festival is a great sign of unity. Also our econ is low enough that we might want to take in more refugees.

[X] [Refugee] Bring in a bit more than usual (-1 Stab, potential further loss, +4-5 Econ)

We are low enough on econ to need this.

[X] [City] Yes (Transfers 2 Econ + 2 Econ expansion, nulls cost of maintenance for Sacred Forest)

We need to do it. We have let something slide otherwise the more we tighten our group the more will slip though our fingers.
 
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[X] BungieONI


Candesce said:
We've got two Econ at the moment. Why are you betting on the refugees handing over econ in time to not drop under 0 when we can simply not spend as much stability and take an econ-booster instead of a stability action?
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Because we must be extra careful about CA after the recent fucking *genocide*.

Plus it may give bragging rights about our gods saving our lands.
 
Spectrum said:
It definitely lost some aspect, I thought? It's been a little bit since that choice showed up. It's not just that we have to xfer Econ/Econ Expansion I was pretty sure.
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Academia Nut said:
Free Cities Unlocked!
Every True City beyond the first decreases Centralization Tolerance by 1. Free Cities are a form of subordinate state that pay for the maintenance of a True City while still providing the benefits (Econ refunds, construction slots for certain infrastructure projects, increased innovation, etc.) but occupy a subordinate state slot and do not take any actions on their own (at this level of development).
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Here's what was said about them.
 
ctulhuslp said:
[X] BungieONI




Because we must be extra careful about CA after the recent fucking *genocide*.

Plus it may give bragging rights about our gods saving our lands.
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You might want to be careful.

I am uncertain of my vote and may be shifting stuff to what Candesce did.
 
I hope people realize that the mill won't really help stop slavery... its a mid grade IRON AGE tech, slavery continued quite a bit longer than that tech...
 
Spectrum said:
It definitely lost some aspect, I thought? It's been a little bit since that choice showed up. It's not just that we have to xfer Econ/Econ Expansion I was pretty sure.
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It consumes a subordinate state slot. It otherwise provides all the same benefits. When our admin or economics have developed further it will be able to perform independent actions, but at the moment cannot.

I would rather not have our current religious capitol be unmanaged.

@ y'all At least vote for the option that gives us 2 wealth and 1 more prestige. We need both of them, especially if people are going to keep voting for a free city.
 
Spectrum said:
Oh, that's right. And they don't get any actions for taking up that slot.

Eh, I'm comfortable with still not then. We're not quite so rich on slots to want to only have one free given all that could yet happen in the nearby areas.
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We are looking to eat up ST and that would free up a spot; we aren't in any position to setup sub-states anyway. So it does make sense to use the spot to release some budget (1 economy drain per turn ) and managing (-1 cent cap) pressure.
 
[X] [RA] Increase debates to determine the truth (-2 to +2 Religious Authority based on success of debates, potential shift in Spiritual Values)
[X] [Low] Force them to follow the spirit of the law (Potential stability loss, potential war with vassal)
[X] [Low] Restrict right to wage war to defensive only (Potential stability loss, potential war with vassal)
[X] [Low] Introduce black soil to improve their conditions (Teaches black soil to vassal)
[X] [Low] Introduce mill technology to improve their conditions (Teaches water mill to vassal)
[X] [Low] Permit their use of iron tools (Allows iron tools to be traded to vassal)
[X] [High] Extra tribute (+2 Prestige, +2 Wealth, probably completes this turn)
[X] [RB] Deploy against Highlanders from Valleyhome
[X] [React] Main Improve Annual Festival
[X] [City] Yes (Transfers 2 Econ + 2 Econ expansion, nulls cost of maintenance for Sacred Forest)
[X] [Refugee] Bring in a bit more than usual (-1 Stab, potential further loss, +4-5 Econ)


Go all in on our Vassals, We need to keep them attached and listening to us. That means giving them the tech so they don't need the slaves. Also to push them against seeking out fights as we just don't have the logistics to keep doing this long term.

Extra Tribute as we are starting to leak wealth and still have a way to go to build our two Megaprojects..

Festival, because we are in deep need of Stability and the narrative benefits of enforcing our culture helps with both the Lowlands Minors and the new priests.
 
Alright, history post updated before going to bed.

And, as usual, a bit of trivia:


Note that we have never gone on Infrastructure, Trade or Progress.
 
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BungieONI said:
What is your reasoning on the Lowlander vote?

Are you concerned or not with the RB going further native by sending them to the SP?
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We really need the actions to get the palace and census finished ASAP, because that per-turn wealth drain from the tax crisis II is going to crush us if the trade disruption doesn't go away soon.

That means that, as much as I'd like to push the lowlanders harder, we can't afford the war - we can't take the stability hits either - so I'm specifically picking to crush their most obnoxious habit (slavery) and giving them the tools to function with less labor, and thus reduce the economic incentive to keep slavery.

I'm not giving iron tools, because those would just get reforged into weapons anyway the moment we turned our backs; I'd be for sending support if I wasn't going for the free city.

Honestly, passing on the free city and sending support to the lowlands might be a better pick; doing both is riskier than I'm willing to vote for, on the order of operations thing.

And I just pulled my Red Scorpions vote, 'cause I'm not actually sure what I want to do with them.
 
[X] [RA] Increase debates to determine the truth (-2 to +2 Religious Authority based on success of debates, potential shift in Spiritual Values)

[X] [Low] Force them to follow the spirit of the law (Potential stability loss, potential war with vassal)
[X] [Low] Crack down on their priests (-1 Stability, potential war with vassal, potential +1 Religious authority)
[X] [Low] Introduce black soil to improve their conditions (Teaches black soil to vassal)
[X] [Low] Introduce mill technology to improve their conditions (Teaches water mill to vassal)
[X] [Low] Permit their use of iron tools (Allows iron tools to be traded to vassal)
[X] [Low] Send over assistance (Transfer 1 Econ + 1 Martial)

[X] [High] Extra tribute (+2 Prestige, +2 Wealth, probably completes this turn)

[X] [RB] Deploy to assist vassal against the Swamp Folk

[X] [React] Main Improve Annual Festival

[X] [City] Yes (Transfers 2 Econ + 2 Econ expansion, nulls cost of maintenance for Sacred Forest)

[X] [Refugee] Let everyone know that your environment is stable (-3 Stab, potential further loss, +9-11 Econ, ???)

i think we need the free city and if we go with all the LOW things we need the RB at the vassal
 
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