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Paths of Civilization

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Academia Nut said:
Sacred Forest is now a True City, you can build a library anywhere you have a temple or a True City. You can thus expand/make another library in Sacred Forest.
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If a true city with a library but no palace stops being a true city, does the library stop working or anything?
Academia Nut said:
They'll try settling new territory if at all possible
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Will settling new territory increase the actions needed for sacred forest renewal? (I suppose that might need to be "do the priests and advisors and Rulwyna and so on think it would do so"?")
 
Umi-san said:
I'd like to do a war mission, but keeping it on restoration is inefficient.
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Actually it's the opposite. It's the most efficient. Thanks to being at max stability, the only difference between Restoration and Balanced right now is that Balanced requires a Secondary to reap the benefits of a Balanced policy. If we leave it on Restoration, we get the same stuff that Balanced would give us but without requiring a Secondary.

Such are the rewards of maximum stability.
 
[X][Main] Sacred Forest Renewal
[X][Main] Sacred Forest Renewal x2
[X][Secondary]War Mission-Northern Nomads
[X] Red Banner Company - Northern Nomads
[X][Divine] Speak against it (-1 Religious Authority, potential trouble for heir)
 
pbluekan said:
General similarities:

Controlled by an elite oligarchy. However, we are extremely honest about it. Communist Russia, despite being ostensibly the people's government, was pretty much controlled by a small, elite group of elites. These men were, by definition, not aristocrats, though. Of all the similarities between Ymaryn and Uncle Joe's Russia, this is probably the closest.

Communal land. Once again, we are extremely honest about this. Even with how we distribute development for mining. For us, it is an ingrained facet of our culture. It is the way things are. People don't generally think about owning the land. Im guessing it doesn't really cross into their consciousness that their land is anything different from the state's land. They are one in the same. In communist Russia, the land had essentially been seized by the government. The people lost their land to the government. The actual workings of the system were entirely different.

Do work, get food, get house, get clothes. We do this. Russia did this. Welcome to hard core socialism.
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Now the differences are far more stark.

Stalinist Russia was a heavily oppressive place. Something like ~16million people died in gulags and other prison camps during stalins reign.

Corruption was absolutely rife. Waaaaaaay worse than we see. Keep in mind, we have a system that has grown into what it is pretty organically over millennia. The communist revolution overthrew an otherwise modern westernized society that had been living under a monarchy for centuries. They went from capitalism and market forces to full on communism in short order, and Lenins refpvolution wasn't a selfless act either. The people running that revolution wanted power and influence, they partially designed their new system for that purpose.
 
Considering that the Stallion Tribes and the Western Wall can probably be considered small nations of their own by now, it's no surprise that the Stallion Tribes are starting to get ideas.
And to be fair, its not like they're wrong.

They have a warrior elite, lots of land that's not being destroyed by climate instability, and a metric ton of iron, while their only opponents are nomads who likely are still using predominantly non-metal weaponry.

They can easily take care of themselves now, and have mostly done so for centuries.
 
Hey, dillweeds, seriously, we need to vote for a policy change. As it stands we are trying to do too much and we desperately need the Econ and forests that balanced or expansion will provide.
 
veekie said:
the idea of actively using Balanced is to accumulate the resources needed to switch to Megaproject Support next turn and then hammer straight towards Palace if resources allow.
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I like the idea of back-to-back projects. But switching policies two turns running, giving up two secondary actions? That's quite a cost. I think we'll get more benefit by taking the time-critical opportunity to build bridges with the Stallions.

Anyway, let's hope this forest is fixed soon, and we can do Palace + Census + overrun the empty lands :)
 
Raichu1972 said:
Considering that the Stallion Tribes and the Western Wall can probably be considered small nations of their own by now, it's no surprise that the Stallion Tribes are starting to get ideas.
And to be fair, its not like they're wrong.

They have a warrior elite, lots of land that's not being destroyed by climate instability, and a metric ton of iron, while their only opponents are nomads who likely are still using predominantly non-metal weaponry.

They can easily take care of themselves now, and have mostly done so for centuries.
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mostly

the massive dedication of southern warriors, southern food and luxuries, southern innovations, and southern iron definitely helped

note that we gain a secondary+ by doing policy-relevant actions, so a switch is neutral
 
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Umi-san said:
and why would this necessarily occur?
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I doubt that it would occur this turn, but WoAN makes it clear that there is a real and growing danger. The current policy will default to Expand Econ, I believe, which is exactly what we need for the megaproject, so we can spare the secondary action for the political benefits instead of switching, IMO.
 
pbluekan said:
Hey, dillweeds, seriously, we need to vote for a policy change. As it stands we are trying to do too much and we desperately need the Econ and forests that balanced or expansion will provide.
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With maxed stability, restoration is basically balanced, minus the law bonus...which is equal in worth to the secondary we'd need to spend to switch, and the alternatives are either:
-don't send a war mission, and have the stallions desiring independence just that little bit more, at a time when the diplo and action needed to integrate them are very valuable. (And possible give up on the chance to evolve lord's loyalty, though i don't think thats likely in this case)
-send a war mission as well as the policy switch, losing out on a megaproject action and another secondary action equivalent


(Also we have WoG that expansion is not going to do forests or expand econ until and unless we don't have settlement options, and just recently it's "unknowable" whether new settlements would increase the megaproject action cost, so expansion is a terrible choice)
 
Umi-san said:
the massive dedication of southern warriors, southern food and luxuries, southern innovations, and southern iron definitely helped
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I'm sure that they know that; they haven't broken away yet. This is our chance to fix the problem while it's small instead of waiting. Thus, efficient.
note that we gain a secondary+ by doing policy-relevant actions, so a switch is neutral
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True - but the policy action being boosted would likely be expanding Econ. Which is great and all, but given the political situation, I'd rather have the secondary War than an extra secondary Econ.
 
eh, let's try it

[X][Main] Sacred Forest Renewal
[X][Main] Sacred Forest Renewal x2
[X][Secondary]War Mission-Northern Nomads
[X] Red Banner Company - Northern Nomads
[X][Divine] Speak against it (-1 Religious Authority, potential trouble for heir)
 
Da Boyz said:
Just for the fun of it, @Academia Nut what about this plan?
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It's called "The Button", "Exterminatus", or similar things, and it's the Godzilla option that we never ever want to press. Except you left out a policy switch to Offensive.

It would likely do horrible things to our social values, not to mention the Stability hit, and I don't know what narrative effects.

Besides, the existing forces are already overkill.
 
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[X] [Divine] Speak against it (-1 Religious Authority, potential trouble for heir)
[X] [Main] Megaproject
[X] [Main] Megaproject x2
[X] [Secondary] Change Policy - Balanced
[X] Red Banner Company - Northern Nomads
 
[X][Main] Sacred Forest Renewal
[X][Main] Sacred Forest Renewal x2
[X][Secondary]War Mission-Northern Nomads
[X] Red Banner Company - Northern Nomads
[X][Divine] Speak against it (-1 Religious Authority, potential trouble for heir)
 
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Da Boyz said:
[][Main] War Mission-Northern Nomads
[][Main] War Mission-Northern Nomads
[][Secondary] Change Policy- Megaproject Support
[] Red Banner Company - Northern Nomads
[] Kick both War Missions.

Just for the fun of it, @Academia Nut what about this plan?
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Honestly, at that point i think the narrative would be "Rulwyna had hidden PTSD and the first talk of war made her go way the fuck overboard and ruined the harmony of the People by overreacting and sending the whole army to burn down the plains around a handful of nomadic tribes starting shit" :p
 
*wavers a lot*

Well ehh might as well get this off my chest in the least offensive way I can formulate, so hopefully the thread can have some improvement.

Speaking honestly, I feel disappointed by people starting their vote/argument for their vote with a reactionary thought, specifically when that thought supports it's choice by putting down another vote option through extremes. This is not okay to me. To be absolutely clear here I am okay with things like what veekie did in his post about his deny vote. He started with taking IC information and logic and personal knowledge as well as direct historical examples to make a reasoned argument for why divine patronage was bad. In fact I am going to switch my vote around to deny because of what he said.

What he didn't do was start his particular train of discussion with any form of comment that simply said it was bad without substantiation i.e what I read as demonization or some other form of negative activity without careful thought. (Also side note none of this applies to people who just vote with no commentary obviously)
I don't particularly much care if you start with a reasoned out argument and then go to un reasoned exclamations over time due to frustration or some other cause. All that matters is the start to me.

Because I also, honestly, feel little inclination to read further posts if someone starts with an unsupported and extreme claim. If you are gonna start like that, I have little ability to expect improvement based on my past experiences in the thread. And why should I expose myself to the negativity and possible salt? Better to just walk away before I get angry and spread it to other people I may interact with. It's no longer Fun and that's a problem.

On top of all this is my uncertainty. I don't actually know if I have done the bad things I have outlined here. I don't think I have but human memory is self editing and biased to the self so I would not know.

To be extra special clear I also do not think this applies to most voters on the thread, except sporadically. Most voters are not actually involved in the main arguments we get into and just make votes with little to no commentary and this does not apply to them at all. And another sizable chunk of voters when they do make commentary go with reasoned arguments and I have no problems with them. Just anyone who slips into a negative reaction which is salt and negativity filled and shats on a option unsupported to prop up their choice.

I'm really not trying to dig at people, just trying to point out something I consider a failing so it can be corrected or mitigated. Caution folks!
Have a good day/night/afternoon/dawn!

Anyway. With that done I'm gonna let this get buried in the thread and get digested, and then respond to some funny shit I've read in the past couple of pages~

[X][Main] Sacred Forest Renewal
[X][Main] Sacred Forest Renewal x2
[X][Secondary]War Mission-Northern Nomads
[X] Red Banner Company - Northern Nomads
[X][Divine] Speak against it (-1 Religious Authority, potential trouble for heir)
 
[X][Main] Sacred Forest Renewal
[X][Main] Sacred Forest Renewal x2
[X][Secondary]War Mission-Northern Nomads
[X] Red Banner Company - Northern Nomads
[X][Divine] Speak against it (-1 Religious Authority, potential trouble for heir)
 
Academia Nut said:
  • Sacred Forest is now a True City, you can build a library anywhere you have a temple or a True City. You can thus expand/make another library in Sacred Forest.
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Click to shrink...
@Academia Nut Seeing as you can attach a library to a True City, Temple or Palace, is there a narrative difference between these libraries and if so, what's the difference? Is it the focus of the material recorded in the library? Who has access to it?

Previously, you've said that a [Main] New Settlement comes along with a free Holy Site (Thanks, Sacred Warding). How does this work now that we have temples? Is it the only way to get a Holy Site now that the option is gone?
 
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