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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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The Phoenixian said:
On more speculative talk: Does anyone wonder if perhaps Mitakihara in general has more potential in this timeline?

There's Sayaka of course, and her pretty potent wish may not just be a result of wishing well.

Then there's also Mami: She's widely respected, but we also see her making connections she hasn't before: In Asunaro a short meeting because a full studentship. If her wish is more potent in PMAS, it could explain this effect via tying her life to the lives of other girls more strongly.

Oriko might not seem notably stronger, but it's worth considering that she saw and contacted Kirika before she wished in this timeline, which is new.

Kirika herself has new powers, new and potent powers. Anti-magic is hardly unprecendented, but her fine control with it makes it very potent.

Even Masami and Hiroko are a notably powerful telekinetic and a pretty skilled Illusionist from everything we've seen. (Can make a corpse look alive and healthy, whatever she does to truancy officers). The first being directly connected to Mami and the second of whom might not exist if not for the other.

Guys, I'm wondering if something is weighing down potential in Mitakihara. I think it's something we might want to ask Homura: Do meguca in the city in seem stronger in general this time around?
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Sorry to rain on this parade, I just need to respond to this.

Sayaka's wish is a karmic fuckery wish. She wished to be useful to us, which necessarily ties her karma to the Mitakihara group in ways it wasn't before. It makes her USEFUL to US which requires her to be better than she WAS, and makes her power implicitly and explicitly proportional to ours.

Mami doesn't seem particularly more powerful. It's also hard to judge this because she is absolutely bullshit awesome to the max. It's possible that having these extra karmic connections might've upped her potential, especially since Mami made a Karmic Fuckery wish, but it doesn't seem the norm for a Magical Girl's potential to change after their contract. Atleast not because of making friends. We don't see any potential changes from Sayaka and Kyouko interacting, for example.

Oriko generally sees Kirika, actually, according to some of the extra Oriko Magica stories. It's her decision to approach her before her wish which is weird, not her vision, though any different visions could be a result of Feathers. They're not consistent across the loops anyway.

Kirika made an explicitly different wish, and her power sets are always fine-tuned to what Oriko needs in that timeline.

Masami and Hiroko are OCs, data inconclusive, but they don't seem particularly weird when put next to other girls in the extended canon. Illusions like Hiroko's aren't uncommon, and there aren't really any other telekinetics I can recall.

If Magical Girls were significantly stronger on the whole I can't imagine Homura wouldn't have said something already. It's notable that Mitakihara ALWAYS had a higher general karmic potential than surrounding areas; it's why Walpurgisnacht is happening there, and why witches are congregating to it en masse.
 
The Phoenixian said:
On more speculative talk: Does anyone wonder if perhaps Mitakihara in general has more potential in this timeline?
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I don't think you've accounted for the bias in your sample. Meguca with high potential have a greater chance of surviving longer. So we're more likely to meet high-potential meguca because the low-potential meguca died before we got the chance. Or, put an other way, we've met lots of low-potential meguca, but by the time we meet them, they're called "witches." :(

We've also got several veteran meguca in our group. In a field where the typical lifespan is measured in weeks or months, Mami has lasted for years and Homura for about a decade. Experience counts for a lot. Mami's most impressive moves have been expressions of her skill, rather than of raw power. That's what makes them so incredible. :cool:

(It is possible that Sayaka's potential was higher in this timeline because of the stuff that happened to her before she contracted, however. The course of her life and her reasons for wishing were very different this time around.)
 
So today Kai said something very inspiring:

Kaizuki - Today at 11:12 AM

Muuuuuumiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii


So I obviously had to do something about it. Kind of?


onmarble - Today at 11:54 AM

I see this cat, this cat on the Discord server.
At night, while everyone's awake beyond a reasonable sleeping time,
The cat moves and makes a racket.
Not content with that, the cat lets out a pitiful meow:
Muuuuuumiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
The cat meowls a strange meow.

But in my mind I can only picture
A white haired girl with blue eyes,
Fist crashing down on a table as she stands up
Yelling with all her might:
Mikuuuuuuniiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii!

There be a slimmer, darker girl beside her,
her violet eyes glimmer.
She sighs in warning.
I told you.
The guns come out.
 
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The Narrator said:
(It is possible that Sayaka's potential was higher in this timeline because of the stuff that happened to her before she contracted, however. The course of her life and her reasons for wishing were very different this time around.)
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It's also possible that her potential was somehow changed by Feathers dropping her through a literal plot hole-- whatever it is, it's pretty unprecedented, so we have no idea what kind of metaphysical repercussions it could have. If it was responsible for Kuroki as well, we really need to find a way to start gathering intel on Feathers soon, since its MO seems to be "dicking around with Sabrina", and there's a lot of room for dicking about in Asunaro.
 
Always Happening said:
It's also possible that her potential was somehow changed by Feathers dropping her through a literal plot hole-- whatever it is, it's pretty unprecedented, so we have no idea what kind of metaphysical repercussions it could have. If it was responsible for Kuroki as well, we really need to find a way to start gathering intel on Feathers soon, since its MO seems to be "dicking around with Sabrina", and there's a lot of room for dicking about in Asunaro.
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*shrug* It's possible. We still know almost nothing about Feathers. And I'm not really sure where to even begin to try to find out more. It's a complete cypher.

We might be able to determine if Feathers changed Sayaka's potential. I think we can sense potential to some degree. And we sensed Sayaka through our grief senses numerous times prior to her contract. So did we sense a difference between Sayaka's potential pre- and post-apartment fire, and pre- and post-Elsa Maria?


EDIT: Also, inserted tally.
Adhoc vote count started by The Narrator on Jun 16, 2017 at 12:33 PM, finished with 118937 posts and 26 votes.
  • [X] Quietly encourage and reassure Mami.
    -[X] Avoid negative conversational turns. Help Mami think positive.
    -[X] Cover for Mami if necessary.
    -[X] Extra attention to her Gem.
    -[X] Let them chat as long as they need.
    [X] When appropriate:
    -[X] Introduce everyone.
    -[X] Explain about your helping meguca thing. And your friends making thing.
    -[X] Arrange for the Asunaro visit. Time and place. Let her know how fast you travel, specially in emergencies.
    -[X] Let Kazusa know it might be more than just Mami and Sabrina visiting.
    -[X] Say goodbye to Kazusa.
    [X] (Have Kirika) Check if Umika's book is out already.
    [X] Bring back the Privacy Device.
    [X] Discuss who's going to Asunaro, paying special attention to Mami's wishes.
    -[X] Explain Hijiri's memory/mind magics: You'd like to have Kirika (and Oriko) along to counter them.
    -[X] If not, at least some Anti-Magic Enchantmets?
    [X] Comfort Mami
    -[X] Be as sappy and inspirational as only you can be.
    -[X] Hugs, snuggles, and cuddles are to be deployed at the captain's discretion.
    [X] Let Mami to take as much time catching up with her former student as she wants.
    -[X] If need be, gently encourage her to talk.
    [X] After introductions are made, share the reins between yourself and Mami, inform Kazusa about your abilities, and arrange a visit to free them from the tyranny of grief-seed scarcity.
    -[X] As appropriate to the mood, allude that you'd be very happy to cooperate with the Saints both professionally and as friends of friends.
    -[X] If they are suffering from serious lack of cleansing, you're more than willing to make a trip over to there immediately.
    -[X] Otherwise, check if Mami wants to go with you, and schedule the visit accordingly.
    [X] If nothing unexpected crops up, farewell the Mikunis Kures Mikunis Kures.
    [X] Once outside the mansion, look to hold a private timestop conversation with Homura
    [X] Quietly encourage and reassure Mami.
    -[X] Avoid negative conversational turns. Help Mami think positive.
    -[X] Cover for Mami if necessary.
    -[X] Extra attention to her Gem.
    -[X] Let them chat as long as they need.
    [X] When appropriate:
    -[X] Introduce everyone.
    -[X] Explain about your helping meguca thing. And your friends making thing.
    -[X] Arrange for the Asunaro visit. Time and place. Let her know how fast you travel, specially in emergencies.
    -[X] Let Kazusa know it might be more than just Mami and Sabrina visiting.
    -[X] Say goodbye to Kazusa.
    [X] Bring back the Privacy Device.
    [X] Discuss who's going to Asunaro, paying special attention to Mami's wishes.
    -[X] Suggest that we look up Umika's books and release dates.
    -[X] Discuss Hijiri's motives and what powers she should have access to, along with possible counters.
    [X] "Well, Senpai?"
    -[X] Let Mami catch up for as long as she needs, providing support as neccessary.
    [X] Once they're done, talk to Kazusa about Clear Seeds and how you'd like to visit Asunaro.
    -[X] If a visit can't be done from Mitakihara, then they're welcome to send a delegation here if they want their seeds cleared.
    [X] If nothing unexpected crops up, farewell the Mikunis Kures Mikunis Kures.
    [X] Once outside the mansion, look to hold a private timestop conversation with Homura
    [X] Comfort Mami
    -[X] Be as sappy and inspirational as only you can be.
    [X] Let Mami to take as much time catching up with her former student as she wants.
    [X] After introductions are made, share the reigns, and between yourself and Mami inform Kazusa about your abilities and arrange a visit to free them from the tyranny of grief-seed scarcity.
    -[X] As appropriate to the mood, allude that you'd be very happy to cooperate with the Saints both professionally and as friends of friends.
    -[X] If they are suffering from serious lack of cleansing, you're more than willing to make a trip over to there immediately.
    -[X] Otherwise, check if Mami wants to go with you, and schedule the visit accordingly.
    [X] If nothing unexpected crops up, farewell the Mikunis Kures Mikunis Kures.
    [X] Once outside the mansion, look to hold a private timestop conversation with Homura
    [X] Telepathy to Mami: "Take your time. Catch up with your friend. You're doing fine, Mami."
    -[X] Continue hugging her. Convey your support physically as much as possible.
    [X] Let Mami take the reins; if your input is needed, interject.
    [X] Pull Mami into the best hug you can manage, and just hold it. Heads on shoulders is ideal.
    [X] Quietly encourage her. Use light pushes, ideally phrased as questions, to move her forward if she stumbles; if she hits a wall, ask if she'll talk to you about how she's feeling, and make counterarguments or counter-assertions to whatever negative issues are preventing her from holding the conversation. If at any point she either can't or does not want to continue, take over.
    -[X] Avoid negative conversational turns. Example, one possible response to Kazusa's question is "Kyubey betrayed me." Push instead in a direction such as "I have a team now." Keep Mami thinking positive as much as possible.
    -[X] There will inevitably be pauses in the conversation from Mami's end -- run interference as needed with statements such as "just a moment, please."
    -[X] Keep Mami's gem clean.
    -[X] Quiet reassurances should be fit in where they seem well-placed. We're here for her.
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For the record, everything Oriko did was done for the express purpose of raising her potential and surviveability, soooo there you go.
 
[Q] "Oriko, at least please tell me that Kuroki is fine. Just say it."
-[Q] If Oriko says Kuroki is fine without stuttering, then Kuroki is fine.
--[Q] "Everybody knows your Feathers, Oriko. You don't need to say 'maybe Feathers did it'. Now where's Kuroki? Is she in the basement? Have you got a basement? Nevermind, I'm gonna check."
---[Q] Go check if Oriko's got a basement.
 
Human souls need to be able to make something more energy dense then Grief.

There will always be Incubators, even if they are not the bunnycats. It's a ecological niche. And how do you effect a ecological niche? Via the resources that made the strategy viable in the first place. There needs to be something better then Grief, and the system that produces Grief. And i think that i have found the thing that would be the best option to have be the thing everything is being optimised for. Grief is caused by people wanting something, and then not getting that thing, so i think that we should try to cause the act of fulfilling/soothing/achieving a source of Grief (Their goal.) to generate a type of fuel that is better then Grief. If it's energy efficient then it becomes a ecological niche.

Edit:
 
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The Narrator said:
I don't agree that it isn't so bad. Madowishes result in apocalypses 99% of the time, and should be avoided at all costs. Lots of people manage to find purpose in life without selling their soul. Madoka doesn't need a contract to have self-worth.
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Lots of people end their own lives because they can't too. If Madoka finds something else, that's nice, but it's the only thing that's ever been observed to bring her real joy, so...yeah, I consider it worth it.

Especially considering she could easily Wish to never become a Witch.
 
Higure said:
Lots of people end their own lives because they can't too. If Madoka finds something else, that's nice, but it's the only thing that's ever been observed to bring her real joy, so...yeah, I consider it worth it.

Especially considering she could easily Wish to never become a Witch.
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Homura wished to be the one to protect Madoka. Madoka is so freakishly powerful at this point that that would be literally impossible if she made a wish, and Homura accepting her making a wish would constitute a rejection of her own wish. And that would be terrible, because aside from the physical/mental pain we've seen that inflict, time stop is kind of our panic button.

Also, it may not even be possible at this point for Madoka to make a wish that won't accidentally the entire planet, which is the trump card I have prepared for if we have to give the dokes the 'don't wish' talk again.
 
Always Happening said:
Also, it may not even be possible at this point for Madoka to make a wish that won't accidentally the entire planet, which is the trump card I have prepared for if we have to give the dokes the 'don't wish' talk again.
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Before anyone points out that the Madokami wish didn't accidentally the planet, it did accidentally the entire timeline, Superboy-Prime style. :p That would probably erase Sabrina from existence. Let's not. Plus, Homura would never accept it and would reset time again, wasting all our hard work.

As far as I'm aware, Homura has never actually told Madoka that her contract ends up destroying the world. She is terrible at sharing information, and probably afraid of hurting Madoka's feelings by telling that she's exterminated all life on Earth nearly a hundred times. I have to assume that if we told Madoka the true consequences of her wish, it would seriously dissuade her from ever risking such a thing. Keeping her ignorant of it plays into Kyubey's hands.
 
The Narrator said:
People end their own lives because they're mentally ill. Madoka's psychologically healthy as far as we can tell. She's just got some run-of-the-mill teenage ennui.
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Not everyone who commits suicide is mentally ill. Put anyone in a bad enough situation, and they'll do it.

That said? It doesn't matter if she isn't miserable enough to kill herself. Even if she maintains the will to live, taking away someone's path to happiness because "other people are happy doing X" is atrociously callous.

Always Happening said:
Homura wished to be the one to protect Madoka. Madoka is so freakishly powerful at this point that that would be literally impossible if she made a wish, and Homura accepting her making a wish would constitute a rejection of her own wish. And that would be terrible, because aside from the physical/mental pain we've seen that inflict, time stop is kind of our panic button.
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Homura's Wish is to protect Madoka. It was made with the intent to fight beside her. Homura's goal might have changed, but her Wish doesn't require Madoka not Wish.

Also, it may not even be possible at this point for Madoka to make a wish that won't accidentally the entire planet, which is the trump card I have prepared for if we have to give the dokes the 'don't wish' talk again.
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That makes zero sense. She should only Witch if her Wish brings more Hope than Madoka can bear balancing, or if it exceeds her Karmic Weight.

There's no reason her Wish itself should do anything destructive unless its nature is.
 
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Higure said:
She should only Witch if her Wish brings more Hope than Madoka can bear balancing, or if it exceeds her Karmic Weight.
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That makes zero sense. All magical girls become witches if their gems aren't cleaned, regardless of what their wish was. The Madoka who only wished for something as small as saving a cat still witched out. And from Loop 4 onward, Madoka appears to witch out exceptionally quickly.
 
Always Happening said:
Also, it may not even be possible at this point for Madoka to make a wish that won't accidentally the entire planet, which is the trump card I have prepared for if we have to give the dokes the 'don't wish' talk again.
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That's a super shitty trump card. Execution flaws like that are something Madoka will just see as a technical challenge to work around.

"What if I wish for whatever and also that it won't destroy the planet or the timeline or anything?"
 
"I wish I was literally Sailor Moon-style instead of a Kyubey-style Magical Girl."

But yea, no, if you want to prevent a contract, any pratfall attempts will make her rules lawyer. The ONLY thing that will work with any reliability is simply telling her how badly the mere act of contracting will hurt Homura, and keeping all her friends alive so she doesn't feel pressured to raise the dead with a wish.

Though, if hypothetically it does become necessary for Madoka to wish and by some miracle Homura is somehow cool with this? It wouldn't be a rejection of her wish, like Higure said.

Homura's wish has two intentions: To be useful to Madoka and thus change her fate, and to reinvent herself into someone she can accept being and having worth as. The world of her barrier, where everyone works TOGETHER as partners...is the world Homura truly longs for. The one she actually wants and not the one she's fighting to settle for because the situation is so unbelievably shitty.
 
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