Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

Onmur · Jun 12, 2017

Vebyast said:
On party composition, we could pose the problem to the group, just say "We're not going alone, that would be stupid", and let Homura figure out the problem herself? If the ideas come from insider her she'll be far less likely to veto them out of hand. But then we'd need a way to dissuade Mami. Bleh.

We were gonna say that in the past vote, didn't we? It was left out in the end.

Problem is that now we're already inside the bubble with Mami attached. We should have told Homura about it earlier, in timestop.

How about...?

EDITED

[ ] Ask Oriko if she saw Hijiri 'connecting' with the powers of any non-Pleiades magical girl.
[ ] Ask Kirika if she can quickly look up recent news of bomb threats in Asunaro.
[ ] Thank Oriko.
-[Q] With hugs.

[ ] Take Mami and the Grief Bubble away from the rest of the group.
-[ ] Tell her Asunaro's problems might involve those secrets. You'd rather she didn't come along, but it's her choice.
-[ ] Comfort. If Mami's not OK, break to voting.

[ ] Dissolve Privacy Bubble.
[ ] Tell everyone you're not bringing Mami along to Asunaro.
-[ ] You'd like to bring Kirika, but you'd rather not separate O&K right now. Look at Homura.

[ ] Ask Mami to contact Kazusa.
-[ ] NiceBrina.
-[ ] Standard spiel about helping Magical Girls.
-[ ] If necessary, admit to having other reasons to want to visit, which should be talked in person.

Firnagzen said:
the disappearance of Miss Kuroki

Why does this sound like a light novel.

The Disappearance of ~~Haruhi Suzumiya~~ Kuroki Matsuko.

Kaizuki · Jun 12, 2017

Vebyast said:
On party composition, we could pose the problem to the group, just say "We're not going alone, that would be stupid", and let Homura figure out the problem herself? If the ideas come from insider her she'll be far less likely to veto them out of hand. But then we'd need a way to dissuade Mami. Bleh.

We have that preformatted Veb. Mami gets the Asunaro talk (basically "I don't want you to come because unspecified infohazards") and she either chooses to come anyway or decides not to.

Redshirt Army · Jun 12, 2017

Making plans for who to bring is premature before we hear from Kazuza (or don't, as the case may be).

General breakdown goes something like:

Contact Michiru
If contact is made

If Michiru invites Mami in particular
Bring Mami
Else
If Situation Seems Stable
Discuss with Mami
Else
Bring Strike Team

Else

Explain Bomb Risk to Mami
Bring Strike Team

As for the composition of the Strike Team:

• If it sounds like anything at all is going down, we must bring Kirika, as antimagic is our primary trump card against various bullshit.

• Kirika must remain with Oriko tommorow if at all possible, thus either Oriko comes with, or the Strike Team goes some time after tommorow. If no answer at all is forthcoming, or the situation seems critical, this may be waived. Saving lives is more important than Oriko's feelings.
• If Oriko is going to enter potentially hostile territory, she must have her arm healed and be able to defend herself if necessary.
• If Kirika (and Oriko!) are going with us somewhere, we must be accompanied by someone else for us to retain Homura's trust.
• As the entire purpose of the Strike Team is to deal with witchbomb heavy situations, whoever accompanies us must be witchbombed. The only candidate at the moment is Homura.

Following this chain of logic to its end, the possibility table for who comes with us looks like this:

Date/Time	Mami Invited	Situation Normal	Situation Critical
Monday Morning	Break to voting. (Would Mami skip school for Michiru?)	Sabrina (possibly + Homura) (Heavy reliance on grief based mind shielding).	Timestop Interference. Homura + Kirika, now. (Kirika wouldn't want Oriko in an active war zone anyway.)
Monday Afternoon	Mami + Sabrina + Kirkia + Oriko Heal Oriko during the morning.	(Sabrina + Homura + Kirika + Oriko) OR (Sabrina + Mami + Kirika + Oriko)	Don't wait.
Tuesday Morning	Ask to reschedule for Monday afternoon. Unlikely to come up.	Sabrina + Homura + Kirika	""
Tuesday Afternoon	Mami + Sabrina + Kirika (potentially + Oriko)	Sabrina + Mami + Kirika (potentially + Oriko)	""

Vebyast · Jun 12, 2017

Okay, so telling Mami has a consensus solution.

Onmur said:
[ ] Dissolve Privacy Bubble.

I would really rather not. Even if we aren't using it right this moment, we will almost certainly want to resume its use to discuss party composition and, if necessary, strike planning. We can get rid of it once we're entirely done talking and are headed home.

On party composition:

[] Going to Asunaro alone would be insanity, but party composition is tricky. Your options are... basically the people in this room.
-[] Let Homura decide on a solution. Offer suggestions if she gets stuck, but let her work through it in her own time.

Onmur · Jun 12, 2017

Redshirt Army said:
Making plans for who to bring is premature before we hear from Kazuza (or don't, as the case may be).

General breakdown goes something like:

Contact Michiru
If contact is made

If Michiru invites Mami in particular
Bring Mami
Else
If Situation Seems Stable
Discuss with Mami
Else
Bring Strike Team
Else

Explain Bomb Risk to Mami
Bring Strike Team

As for the composition of the Strike Team:

• If it sounds like anything at all is going down, we must bring Kirika, as antimagic is our primary trump card against various bullshit.

• Kirika must remain with Oriko tommorow if at all possible, thus either Oriko comes with, or the Strike Team goes some time after tommorow. If no answer at all is forthcoming, or the situation seems critical, this may be waived. Saving lives is more important than Oriko's feelings.
• If Oriko is going to enter potentially hostile territory, she must have her arm healed and be able to defend herself if necessary.
• If Kirika (and Oriko!) are going with us somewhere, we must be accompanied by someone else for us to retain Homura's trust.
• As the entire purpose of the Strike Team is to deal with witchbomb heavy situations, whoever accompanies us must be witchbombed. The only candidate at the moment is Homura.

Following this chain of logic to its end, the possibility table for who comes with us looks like this:

Date/Time Mami Invited Situation Normal Situation Critical

Monday Morning Break to voting.
(Would Mami skip school for Michiru?) Sabrina (possibly + Homura)

(Heavy reliance on grief based mind shielding). Timestop Interference. Homura + Kirika, now.

(Kirika wouldn't want Oriko in an active war zone anyway.)

Monday Afternoon Mami + Sabrina + Kirkia + Oriko

Heal Oriko during the morning. (Sabrina + Homura + Kirika + Oriko) OR (Sabrina + Homura + Kirika + Oriko) Don't wait.

Tuesday Morning Ask to reschedule for Monday afternoon. Unlikely to come up. Sabrina + Homura + Kirika ""

Tuesday Afternoon Mami + Sabrina + Kirika (potentially + Oriko) Sabrina + Mami + Kirika (potentially + Oriko) ""

Mami invited + Mami chooses to not visit when we inform her of secretsbomb?

Redshirt Army said:
(Sabrina + Homura + Kirika + Oriko) OR (Sabrina + Homura + Kirika + Oriko)

What.

AuraTwilight · Jun 12, 2017

Can we just....share all these thoughts with Homura and have her pick?

Redshirt Army · Jun 12, 2017

Onmur said:
Mami invited + Mami chooses to not visit when we inform her of secretsbomb?

The (quite substantial) possibility that Kazuza will invite Mami in particular is why I do not support telling Mami the secretsbomb before contacting Michiru.

(I couldn't voice this opposition when the idea was brought up because I was manually typing in the BBcode for a table. SV mobile client, why?)

Onmur · Jun 12, 2017

Vebyast said:
[] Going to Asunaro alone would be insanity, but party composition is tricky. Your options are... basically the people in this room.
-[] Let Homura decide on a solution. Offer suggestions if she gets stuck, but let her work through it in her own time.

[Q] Going to Asunaro would be pants on head insane... actually, there's no pants at Asunaro.
-[Q] Don't go to Asunaro. It's a silly place. With no pants. You like your pants.

AuraTwilight said:
Can we just....share all these thoughts with Homura and have her pick?

With Homura or with everyone? As much as Veb posted, at least.

Redshirt Army said:
The (quite substantial) possibility that Kazuza will invite Mami in particular is why I do not support telling Mami the secretsbomb before contacting Michiru.

We're not taking Mami to Asunaro without warning her about secretsbomb.

It would much rather straight up ask Mami to not go, after this update. But it's up to her to make an informed decision.

We should let Mami know before or after contacting Michiru.

Vebyast · Jun 13, 2017

AuraTwilight said:
Can we just....share all these thoughts with Homura and have her pick?

I strongly support this. Homura will be much more comfortable with the whole thing if she's more or less in charge. She's perfectly capable of proposing an idea that she doesn't like, even one that she dislikes it so much that she'd be shooting it down had Sabrina suggested it instead.

Also, if we're going to be super manipulative, cognitive dissonance. If Homura proposes a plan that paints O&K in a good light, that's going to stick to her cognition no matter how hard she tries to maintain paranoia. It's underhanded but highly effective.

Onmur said:
With Homura or with everyone? As much as Veb posted, at least.

I think that round-tabling it might work? Even if we put it up for common discussion, Oriko and Kirika will definitely realize that Homura's the one making the decision, and Oriko's way less prickly than she used to be. I'd definitely like Mami to be in on that conversation, too, since a lot of this is so she doesn't worry about Sabrina doing crazy things all by herself.

I'm not sure where to come down on party planning before or after calling. Even if everything looks good and we take Mami, I am absolutely not going to condone taking her blind into a situation where it's possible for someone to witch out on the spot in front of her. We need to warn her that there're those secrets closer to the surface here and that, if we tell her to stop paying attention, she needs to do it.

Redshirt Army · Jun 13, 2017

Onmur said:
We're not taking Mami to Asunaro without warning her about secretsbomb.

Agreed.

Onmur said:
We should let Mami know before or after contacting Michiru.

After. If Michiru invites Mami in particular, then pushing Mami to not go will destroy her, and the secrets talk will need to be adjusted accordingly. (More of a "here are the risks" thing than a "it'll be dangerous and stay away because" thing.)

Reducing tonal whiplash would also be good.

Vebyast · Jun 13, 2017

Onmur said:
[ ] Ask Kirika if she can quickly look up recent news of bomb threats in Asunaro.

What was this, out of curiosity? Haven't read PMKM.

That looks like a consensus, then. Proposal:

[] Further quick questions:
-[] Ask Oriko if she saw Hijiri 'connecting' with the powers of any non-Pleiades magical girl.
-[] Ask Kirika if she can quickly look up recent news of bomb threats in Asunaro.
-[] Thank Oriko.

[] Move outside privacy bubble, but keep bubble active for later use.

[] Ask Mami to contact Kazusa. Pull in everyone.
-[] NiceBrina.
-[] Standard spiel about helping Magical Girls.
-[] If necessary, admit to having other reasons to want to visit, which should be talked in person.

Kaizuki · Jun 13, 2017

So, consensus seems to be that we should contact Kazusa and then do anything else. Frankly, can we just do that? First? And then discuss things?

E: seems like that's the plan

Onmur · Jun 13, 2017

Someone explain what difference there is between telling Mami before or after calling Kazusa?

If we tell her after, we let her get her hopes up, to crash down is she ends up not going.

If we tell her before, she'll be more subdued when talking with Kazusa.

[ ] Ask Oriko if she saw Hijiri 'connecting' with the powers of any non-Pleiades magical girl.
[ ] Ask Kirika if she can quickly look up recent news of bomb threats in Asunaro.
[ ] Thank Oriko.

[ ] Say you'd prefer to not go alone to Asunaro. Your options are the people in this room.
-[ ] Let everyone mull on that. Take Mami and the Privacy Bubble away from the group.

I'd like to let everyone mull on team composition while we're doing something else.

-[ ] Tell Mami about how those secrets might come up at Asunaro. It's her choice whether she wants to come along or not.
-[ ] Mutual (?) comfort.

[ ] Ask Mami to put you in contact with Kazusa.
-[ ] NiceBrina.
-[ ] Standard spiel about helping Magical Girls.
-[ ] If necessary, admit to having other reasons to want to visit, which should be talked in person.

Vebyast · Jun 13, 2017

Next vote proposal:

This happens either way. If we're composing a strike team to go in hot, then she needs to know why she might end up not being on it. If we're going in on an invitation, she needs to know to be careful.

[] Take Mami into the privacy bubble, away from the rest of the group.
-[] Warn her Asunaro's problems might involve those secrets. Don't dissuade her, just warn her.
-[] Comfort. If Mami's not OK, break to voting.

[] Return to privacy bubble and assemble a party.
-[] Explain the constraints to everyone: Dangerous secrets, you aren't going alone.
-[] Brief everyone on what you know of the tactical situation: Powers, timeframes, etc.
-[] Let Homura take the lead and have the final say.
-[] If she asks your opinion, your preferred party: Everybody in the room, maybe minus Mami depending on whether she was invited.

edit: If anyone worries about all the heavy hitters (Sabs+Mami+Homu) being out of town, call Kyouko in?

Onmur said:
If we tell her after, we let her get her hopes up, to crash down is she ends up not going.

I think that, if Mami gets an invitation, we're taking her, we're just being super super careful about the secrets thing.

Onmur · Jun 13, 2017

Short update seems to be go.

Vebyast said:
[] Ask Mami to contact Kazusa. Pull in everyone.

What does this mean?

Vebyast · Jun 13, 2017

Onmur said:
What does this mean?

Ah, sorry, include Homura and O&K, not just Sabrina and Mami. Homura for the tactical situation, it might jog something loose for Oriko, and if we're including Oriko we should include Kirika too.

Onmur said:
Short update seems to be go.

Completely agree. Short updates happen faster, so little to no actual slowing down of story, and we get better control.

[] Further quick questions:
-[] Ask Oriko if she saw Hijiri 'connecting' with the powers of any non-Pleiades magical girl.
-[] Ask Kirika if she can quickly look up recent news of bomb threats in Asunaro.
-[] Thank Oriko.

[] Move outside privacy bubble, but keep bubble active for later use.

[] Ask Mami to contact Kazusa. Conference call everybody, not just Sabrina+Mami.
-[] NiceBrina.
-[] Standard spiel about helping Magical Girls.
-[] If necessary, admit to having other reasons to want to visit, which should be talked in person.

Look good?

Redshirt Army · Jun 13, 2017

Vebyast said:
-[] If she asks your opinion, your preferred party: Everybody in the room, maybe minus Mami depending on whether she was invited.

edit: If anyone worries about all the heavy hitters (Sabs+Mami+Homu) being out of town, call Kyouko in?

Mami or Homura should stay behind to mind the city. Inviting Kyouko is a whole seperate can of worms given Mami's mental state, and she can't keep as close an eye on Madoka at school anyway.

If Oriko comes, she'll need to be healed, which is probably a deal breaker on that front for Homura.

Dion · Jun 13, 2017

Onmur said:
Short update seems to be go.

What does this mean?

I think it means to pull everyone into the conversation
Edit: ninja'd

Onmur · Jun 13, 2017

Vebyast said:
[] Move outside privacy bubble, but keep bubble active for later use.

We should leveitate the Privacy Bubble away if we're all gonna be in telepathy, instead.

Onmur · Jun 13, 2017

[Q] Tell Homu it's about time she broke her delusions about the missing arm meaning anything about Oriko's threat level.
-[Q] Wait Homu put that gun away.

You know, I'd really would like if Sabrina+Homu+O&K team would result in Homu being less wary of O&K after continued exposure.

If.

Redshirt Army · Jun 13, 2017

Onmur said:
[Q] Tell Homu it's about time she broke her delusions about the missing arm meaning anything about Oriko's threat level.

Right.

I'm 100% on board with a short update cycle now, so my vote is:

[x] Vebyast

But for next update, pushing Homu to leave Madoka in Sayaka's hands alone, pushing Mami to let Kyouko have the run of her city now, and bringing up the thorny issue of Orikos arm all need to considered far more carefully.

cmwatford · Jun 13, 2017

cmwatford said:
Oriko just called coobs an Incubator in front of Mami. Has that happened before?

I'd like to reiterate this. If this is the first time Mami's heard this then she might start thinking.

Vebyast · Jun 13, 2017

Onmur said:
You know, I'd really would like if Sabrina+Homu+O&K team would result in Homu being less wary of O&K after continued exposure.

If.

Note to Sabrina: Give Kirika special orders to be extra lovey-dovey while Homura is around.

...TBH, that sounds like a joke, but having said it it actually sounds like a good idea. That little humanizing element. Plus drive home that Oriko is Kirika's Madoka-equivalent, all the way down to having wished for her.

Onmur said:
We should leveitate the Privacy Bubble away if we're all gonna be in telepathy, instead.

Good plan. That way we don't have to get out of our seats.

[x] Further quick questions:
-[x] Ask Oriko if she saw Hijiri 'connecting' with the powers of any non-Pleiades magical girl.
-[x] Ask Kirika if she can quickly look up recent news of bomb threats in Asunaro.
-[x] Thank Oriko.

[x] Move the privacy bubble away, but keep it floating around somewhere for later use.

[x] Ask Mami to contact Kazusa. Conference call everybody, not just Sabrina+Mami.
-[x] NiceBrina.
-[x] Standard spiel about helping Magical Girls.
-[x] If necessary, admit to having other reasons to want to visit, which should be talked in person.

Hmmm. Being paranoid and examining failure modes:
-[] Be ready to disconnect Mami from the conversation, or bring down the privacy bubble, if Kazusa is about to say something witchbomb-y.

edit:

Redshirt Army said:
But for next update, pushing Homu to leave Madoka in Sayaka's hands alone, pushing Mami to let Kyouko have the run of her city now, and bringing up the thorny issue of Orikos arm all need to considered far more carefully.

Yup. Those could also just be more things to bring up for general discussion.

Dion · Jun 13, 2017

Why do we need Oriko going though? In case her visions come back? Though now that I think about it if she's there I bet Kirika will fight all the harder

Vebyast · Jun 13, 2017

Dion said:
Why do we need Oriko going though? In case her visions come back? Though now that I think about it if she's there I bet Kirika will fight all the harder

We don't want to split Oriko and Kirika up. Oriko is making a lot of progress right now and I don't want to deprive her of her Kirika-time while she's doing that.

Also, even if her foresight is gone, she still remembers a lot of it, and having her there to tell us what she remembers should be useful.

Finally, it should improve Homura's opinion of her. No, seriously. People're treating that like a "lol as if", but humans are not good at resisting this kind of thing.

edit for no manyposts:

Onmur said:
She's also a meguca. Some meguca-ing would let her rebuild her confidence if it goes well.

VVVVV This is a really excellent point, thank you very much. I'm now solidly on board with getting Oriko in this party.

Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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