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Paths of Civilization

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[X] [Curr] Yes, in Valleyhome
Let's not strain our admin again.
[X] [Horse] Openly allow but regulate it (-1 Religious Authority, potential stability loss)
[X] [Infra] Build aqueduct in Sacred Forest (-4 Econ, +4 Econ Expansion, increased True City threshold)
[X] [Hero] Provide sponsorship (Main Study Tailings under Mystic Hero, possible Legitimacy loss, possible Religious Authority loss)

For the currency im not really worried about possible losses, its a good idea - efficient - these things tend to spread on their own
 
Reader of all said:
I am against this right now the lowlands are about to boil over and the chance for us to finally take it is almost at hand we should not be distracted by a mega project at this time
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The Lowlands are no concern of ours, most people don't want to get stuck in that bloodbath and with the new Thunder Speaker revolt and stabilisation of the Highlanders we can rest assured they won't be unified yet
 
Reader of all said:
Guys wouldn't implementing the currency in Valleyhome and in Valleyhome only, cause a class imbalance as the people inside Valleyhome are able to stock up on the currency before it gets fully implemented elsewhere making it so that those outside Valleyhome will have less currency to start with than those inside?
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Probably not considering that the currency is just the equivalent of daily rations but more formal.
 
Seriously though, why do people even care about Trelli? If you want to expand and fight people so much, we have not!Fertile Crescent right here, and, well, our values are way more suited to it than to far-flung mercantile ventures.
And if we cannot hold Lowlands, why the fuck would we be able to conquer and hold distant rich city-state without any land connection whatsoever?
 
Let's just not talk about the Trelli until the current issue is dealt with. We'll attack them eventually, when the time is right.
 
ctulhuslp said:
Given that Hath have heroic leader, it's a bit dubious, honestly. I suspect trying to fight Trelli on water, given description of ships, is not unlike trying to fight Ymaryn in forested hills
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The Hath leader is dying soon so he's no longer an issue.

Also our ships are pretty advanced too, after we get Major docks we can make them only somewhat lesser whilst being able to outnumber them massively
 
@Academia Nut about my question which would the admin adviser prefer that the currency be first implemented in Valleyhome first or be fully implemented all throughout our civ?
Umi-san said:
Probably not considering that the currency is just the equivalent of daily rations but more formal.
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Currency is more than that it would allow for easier exchange of goods and services as such it would mean that once it gets fully implemented the people in Valleyhome are more able to buy goods and services having had more experience with currency and more time to save currency rather than say a person from Redshore.
 
ctulhuslp said:
Seriously though, why do people even care about Trelli? If you want to expand and fight people so much, we have not!Fertile Crescent right here, and, well, our values are way more suited to it than to far-flung mercantile ventures.
And if we cannot hold Lowlands, why the fuck would we be able to conquer and hold distant rich city-state without any land connection whatsoever?
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Because the Lowlands will and have always been a death trap, whilst the city state is one city state versus our colonial empire, also the Lowlanders don't threaten our dominant trade goods, making them capable of causing massive internal strife to us
 
McLuvin said:
The Hath leader is dying soon so he's no longer an issue.

Also our ships are pretty advanced too, after we get Major docks we can make them only somewhat lesser whilst being able to outnumber them massively
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1. Ours dies soon too, and, seeing as Hath are still in Heroic Age ( @Academia Nut , are they still in heroic age?), we may have a problem down south.
2. Our ships are portability + size; they are good for transporting goods and people along the river. They are shit at naval combat, especially compared to Trelli ships, which are purpose-built for naval warfare.
And [citation needed] on 'definitely being able to outnumber'.
Maritime war is definitely their home ground.

McLuvin said:
Because the Lowlands will and have always been a death trap, whilst the city state is one city state versus our colonial empire, also the Lowlanders don't threaten our dominant trade goods, making them capable of causing massive internal strife to us
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*looks at Greece vs Persia*
Do not underestimate city states. And we are not a colonial empire.

EDIT: Ah, I forgot, you're Hail Britannia guy. Yes, that would explain rampant hawkishness and inability to understand that colonising is not really easy to pull of right.
 
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McLuvin said:
The Lowlands are no concern of ours, most people don't want to get stuck in that bloodbath and with the new Thunder Speaker revolt and stabilisation of the Highlanders we can rest assured they won't be unified yet
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The lowlands will always be a concern of ours because it is where our closest neighbors are if the lowlands ever fully unite we are the juiciest target in the area as such before you want to fight assholes (Although I disagree on the notion that they are assholes) hundreds of kilometers away at sea we should focus on the assholes right below us.
 
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McLuvin said:
So overall, some weak arguments, not going to lie most of them seem like excuses not to do it, some of them aren't even issues we've been overly concerned with or can solve
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Yeah, no. People here have been notoriously bad about both risk estimation and forecasting in this thread. Underestimating or trivializing all these polities is a classic case of that.
 
Reader of all said:
Guys wouldn't implementing the currency in Valleyhome and in Valleyhome only, cause a class imbalance as the people inside Valleyhome are able to stock up on the currency before it gets fully implemented elsewhere making it so that those outside Valleyhome will have less currency to start with than those inside?
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Not really- the Valleyhome economy is pretty much already set up to provide a balance for the currency.

What's very likely is that once it's 'official' and people can't really deny the legitimacy of the currency, someone from outside Valleyhome where they mine silver will try to take advantage by 'counterfeiting', which could various problems. It's probably down to a roll as to whether we take a stability hit, as opposed to the guaranteed stability hit for universal implementation, which could outright fail.
 
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drake_azathoth said:
It's kind of a pity that it just mentions 'young men' though. Hopefully our remaining women warriors try it out- I'm not sure how big our horses are right now, but a cavalry or cavalry-archer position being dominated by women at this time actually makes a great deal of sense up until horses bulk up. Being physically smaller finally pays off for something- the smaller you are the more horses you can ride and the less you tire the horses while riding them.
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You do realize this is at the level of bored males do stupid things to impress the females level currently?
notgreat said:
If they start charging too much we can just build our own canal.
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Correction... the goal is to build one that goes around them. Through the mountains. Via a system of locks. Just to make rude gestures at them from above.
ctulhuslp said:
America? Decent? No. Nobody ever thinks that. America is basically the biggest and most obnoxious bully around...honestly, Trump was how US was viewed outside of it for quite a lot of the time.
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Considering that before America became the big dog (post WW2) it was common practice simple do military take overs because you could and it was considered the fault of the invaded for not being able to protect themselves.. the World Police man method is an upgrade to that by someone being the adult in the room.

Not close to perfect, but its basically the equivalent of 'Democracy is the worst form of government... except all the others that have been tried.'

No one ever likes the guy in the lead unless its themselves (and that is hit or miss). Now stop hating on America in the bronze age. Its like demonizing your imaginary friend in public.
 
ctulhuslp said:
1. Ours dies soon too, and, seeing as Hath are still in Heroic Age ( @Academia Nut , are they still in heroic age?), we may have a problem down south.
2. Our ships are portability + size; they are good for transporting goods and people along the river. They are shit at naval combat, especially compared to Trelli ships, which are purpose-built for naval warfare.
And [citation needed] on 'definitely being able to outnumber'.
Maritime war is definitely their home ground.



*looks at Greece vs Persia*
Do not underestimate city states. And we are not a colonial empire.

EDIT: Ah, I forgot, you're Hail Britannia guy. Yes, that would explain rampant hawkishness and inability to understand that colonising is not really easy to pull of right.
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We get another hero afterwards, also heroic age is ending, they've reunified basically and heroic age wasn't good for them anyway

We use longboats packed with the worlds best archers, an upgrade from major docks would let us come to just about below them whilst outnumbering them massively due to our three docks and a major dock to their one

Also Greece v Persia was multiple city states versus one empire, totally different to one city state versus one empire
 
@Academia Nut is there any possibility that our people are attempting to grow saplings or seeds of the great trees?

I want that sequoia. Gimme it.
 
[X] [Curr] Yes, in vallyhome
[X] [Horse] Openly allow but regulate it (-1 Religious Authority, potential stability loss)
[X] [Hero] Provide sponsorship (Main Study Tailings under Mystic Hero, possible Legitimacy loss, possible Religious Authority loss)
[X] [Infra] Build aqueduct in Sacred Forest (-4 Econ, +4 Econ Expansion, increased True City threshold)
 
Reader of all said:
The lowlands will always be a concern of ours because it is where our closest neighbors are if the lowlands ever fully unite we are the juiciest target in the area as such before you want to fight assholes (Although I disagree on the notion that they are assholes) hundreds of kilometers away at sea we should focus on the assholes right below us.
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We can never win against the Lowlanders as they stretch too wide and there are too many polities, we can beat the Trilli because they are only a single city, easy to smother in numbers if we get Major Docks
 
Necratoid said:
You do realize this is at the level of bored males do stupid things to impress the females level currently?
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Well, yes. But sooner or later if it hasn't already happened a sporty young woman will try to do it to impress a guy or girl as well. She may or may not be successful, and may or may not take flack for it, but she'll probably discover it's fun.

McLuvin said:
We can never win against the Lowlanders as they stretch too wide and there are too many polities, we can beat the Trilli because they are only a single city, easy to smother in numbers if we get Major Docks
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...And no, we can totally beat the Lowlands. Wouldn't surprise me if we kick the crap out of them in our next war. In all honesty, while their infantry makes me sort-of interested there's a reason heavy cavalry was mistakenly regarded as 'invincible' for centuries. And volley fire archery is just nasty even if you've got a shield. Once we've taken part of the Lowlands we won't need to trade it back and forth like the Xoh and HK do because we'll actually be building up and fortifying the interior- the reason the Lowlands are a sandtrap is nobody had a big enough population to settle it and fortify it. The HK were good at forts, but had fairly low numbers. We're numerous enough at this point and really good at colonizing and fortifying land- the nomads and Stallion Tribe area are basically hard difficulty to the Lowlands normal or easy mode and we've kept the territory we've taken.

The Trelli will be a slog if we try to conquer them- they're undoubtably incredibly rich and undoubtably have ways to translate that wealth into military power. Beating them probably requires we stop their trade route, as our Martial hero suggested, to stop the flow of wealth. To be honest, while it's a strategic enough position I'm all for subordinating them, it's probably a distant future goal and diplo-annexing may be far more practical.
 
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@Academia Nut While we still have the martial hero...
What does he think the best 2-3 current ways of improving our military are?
What about the best way to prepare specifically for each of these scenarios:
1. An offensive war against the Xoh
2. A defensive war against the Hathatyn
3. A defensive war against another nomad horde
4. A war (either offensive or defensive) against the Highland Kingdom
 
Okay, because I don't want this to get lost, and I hope the people who keep track of how stats work other than me (mostly just @veekie at this point) will pay attention to this.

How I suspect Religious Authority Works. I think religious authority is generated on a turn by turn basis, centered around our religious infrastructure and amount of pilgrimage. If this is true, we should see it at 1 next turn, despite the vote being overwhelmingly in favor of spending all of it. This means establishing more temples should increase the rate at which we generate religious authority, and we should seriously consider building more to also increase pilgrimage. It might also mean that pilgrimage increase is actually only generated through prestige normally, and the number of temples determines the amount of religious authority that we'd get. If so, I'd expect it to follow the Saltern and Library pattern of 1 for initial and every 2 there after for greater generation.

Very much wild speculation, but we need to stay on top of figuring out how stats, especially new ones, work, so wild speculation needs to be done repeatedly and evaluated if we are to figure it out.
 
[X] [Curr] Yes, in Valleyhome
[X] [Horse] Openly allow but regulate it (-1 Religious Authority, potential stability loss)
[X] [Hero] Provide sponsorship (Main Study Tailings under Mystic Hero, possible Legitimacy loss, possible Religious Authority loss)
[X] [Infra] Build aqueduct in Sacred Forest (-4 Econ, +4 Econ Expansion, increased True City threshold)
 
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[X] [Curr] Yes, in Valleyhome
[X] [Horse] Openly allow but regulate it (-1 Religious Authority, potential stability loss)
[X] [Infra] Build aqueduct in Sacred Forest (-4 Econ, +4 Econ Expansion, increased True City threshold)
[X] [Hero] Provide sponsorship (Main Study Tailings under Mystic Hero, possible Legitimacy loss, possible Religious Authority loss)

You know I wonder whether we get a bonus due to the thread being pretty much in agreement.
 
Spectrum said:
Yeah, no. People here have been notoriously bad about both risk estimation and forecasting in this thread. Underestimating or trivializing all these polities is a classic case of that.
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But it's the facts.
For example:
I didn't say Nomads wouldn't come back, I just said they might not and that Nomads were always going to be an issue due to being near a Steppe.

I'm not trivialising anything I'm stating the facts
 
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