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Paths of Civilization

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Glassware said:
You realize I provided the actual quote where NotteBoy97 asked, right?


I'm considering if we should switch to it, yes.

@Academia Nut in the opinion of our present king is it better to have faster ships or the portability+size design for relieving the Metal Workers?
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Let's make this more general.

@Academia Nut What are the strengths and weaknesses of portable + size vs portable + speed and which strategy would our heroic general (that wisely realizes he would be better on the front lines) think would benefit more from each one.
 
Glassware said:
Given the emphasis that our king is placing on the need to crush the west quickly if he's going there, actually, it sounds like speed might be a better focus than size for the new boats. Getting there and back more quickly means there's less of a chance for the hero we're not fighting to take advantage of the weakened defenses.
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Boats will make the trip fast by default. The difference is between ferrying a large number of men quickly or a small number of men very quickly. A quick victory must have a sufficient number of troops dedicated to the action in order for the victory to be quick or even for victory to be achieved at all.
 
Umi-san said:
@McLuvin No offense, but just admit that you made a mistake or whatever. It's the best way to keep arguments a discussion.
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Didn't see that part of the post when quoted it, trying to keep up on Destiny of Strife on my mobile and when it was pointed out I rated the post insightful.

So yeah I just already showed I didn't know. I was just a little busy before you jumped on it.
 
Glassware said:
You realize I provided the actual quote where NotteBoy97 asked, right?


I'm considering if we should switch to it, yes. There's the obvious issue that we ultimately want big boats for exploring the sea...but I think at least Western Wall has yet to grab a Build Docks option and they likely will soon-ish, so we can grab it then.

@Academia Nut in the opinion of our present king is it better to have faster ships or the portability+size design for relieving the Metal Workers?
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While i think it'd be good to get a direct WoG, the bit from the update suggests that portability+size is our hero's favorite in general for war matters:
Academia Nut said:
Some of the larger designs cropping up were quite interesting to the king, as he envisioned being able to take large groups deep into the steppes via the rivers to attack his enemies from unexpected directions.
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[X] [Recruit] Mass recruitment (+6 Martial, -2 Econ, -2 Econ Expansion, -2 Centralization, additional effects)
[X][Strategy] Relieve the west
[X][Library] Free Study Metal (Guaranteed breakthrough)
[X][Boats] New design: Emphasize size

Better safe than sorry for the recruitment,

With the Study Metal I want to look into alloying.
 
Andres110 said:
Boats will make the trip fast by default. The difference is between ferrying a large number of men quickly or a small number of men very quickly. A quick victory must have a sufficient number of troops dedicated to the action in order for the victory to be quick or even for victory to be achieved at all.
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Is it a small number, though, if we're essentially directing all three of our docks to build as many boats of that class as possible in order for us to head west to reinforce the metal workers? We don't necessarily know; we could be able to produce enough boats to carry as many men as we need and size would be superfluous-certainly we know from WoG that the longboats or new large boats makes no difference.
 
Umi-san said:
We have 3 docks now?
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I think there's a new one in Blackshore and there has been a major one in Redshore for decades. The third one might be from the southern territories we gained from the Hath
Edit: Blackbird'd and wrong
Glassware said:
Is it a small number, though, if we're essentially directing all three of our docks to build as many boats of that class as possible in order for us to head west to reinforce the metal workers? We don't necessarily know; we could be able to produce enough boats to carry as many men as we need and size would be superfluous-certainly we know from WoG that the longboats or new large boats makes no difference.
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Wouldn't that be kind of silly though, why put Size as an option (the Heroic Martial Kings preferred option no less) if it was as superfluid as you try to say?
 
Re: recruitment, unless the cent drop gives us a straight-up government change, this gives us an opportunity to Main Enforce Justice, which will solve two problems at once- Cent and Stability
 
McLuvin said:
Wouldn't that be kind of silly though, why put Size as an option (the Heroic Martial Kings preferred option no less) if it was as superfluid as you try to say?
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Size isn't superfluous in the long term. Having larger ships means increased bulk trading power and the ability to voyage longer distances overall. Plus, as noted in the text, it lets you carry more troops overall for smaller-scale operations like river ambushes.
 
[X] [Recruit] Smaller recruitment (+3 Martial, potential additional effects)
[X] [Strategy] Relieve the west
[X] [Library] Evolve a random value other than Love of Wisdom
[X] [Boats] Increase size while maintaining portability
 
DocMatoi said:
Re: recruitment, unless the cent drop gives us a straight-up government change, this gives us an opportunity to Main Enforce Justice, which will solve two problems at once- Cent and Stability
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We know that 1 Cent wouldn't make our government fold. Though I do expect the additional effects to be an increase in hierarchy.
 
Umi-san said:
IIRC we already can.
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We can.

A Main Enforce would put us at gold(?) 5 Cent and possibly 1 Stability.
Adhoc vote count started by BungieONI on Jun 10, 2017 at 8:21 PM, finished with 51493 posts and 82 votes.
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DocMatoi said:
we can, yes, but this gives us an opportunity to do it without jeopardizing our roads. We've been bellyaching for centralization spending anyway, haven't we?
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Well the other parts of the problem are that below average admin and low cent do not mix well and we are dealing with a plague and if things go really tits up we may hit negative econ from martial losses.

Sorry for double posts.
 
BungieONI said:
Well the other parts of the problem are that below average admin and low cent do not mix well and we are dealing with a plague and if things go really tits up we may hit negative econ from martial losses.

Sorry for double posts.
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Word of AN is that sub-optimal admin and HIGH cent is even worse.
Academia Nut said:
High centralization with a really bad leader is probably the worst of all worlds because the state will do stupid things more efficiently.
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DocMatoi said:
Word of AN is that sub-optimal admin and HIGH cent is even worse.
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I think our current king is the first leader with suboptimal Admin in centuries

I think our elective Oligarchy almost makes poor Admin leaders near impossible to get, which takes a load off Centralisation issues, which synergies well with our Centralisation Tolerance legacy
 
BungieONI said:
Well the other parts of the problem are that below average admin and low cent do not mix well and we are dealing with a plague and if things go really tits up we may hit negative econ from martial losses.

Sorry for double posts.
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Two points:
  1. This isn't low cent any more than 1 Stability is low stability. This is moderate cent which is best for mediocre admins
  2. We can't hit negative econ from martial losses alone. Only one third of our excess Econ is yeoman, and thus vulnerable to martial damage.
 
DocMatoi said:
Word of AN is that sub-optimal admin and HIGH cent is even worse.
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Which is a really good point. Probably best to do a Main RoO and New Trails and Warmission next time we get the chance. I'm 100% sure we are getting another mid turn next update, because we seem to have switched to that style now in recent updates.

pblur said:
Two points:
  1. This isn't low cent any more than 1 Stability is low stability. This is moderate cent which is best for mediocre admins
  2. We can't hit negative econ from martial losses alone. Only one third of our excess Econ is yeoman, and thus vulnerable to martial damage.
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Hmm.
 
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