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Paths of Civilization

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[X] [Temple] Sacred Forest
[X] [Clan] Dissolve clans within the city in favour of occupationally linked administration
[X] [Diplo] Look around for more reasonable people (Main Sailing Mission)
 
I feel like this push towards Sailing Around or trade missions to the Hathatyn/Metal Workers is a bad idea. Well, not a bad idea, but not as important as keeping our fingers on the pulse of the brewing war between the two largest nations in our area.

That's where the important stuff is going down, not the Hathatyn putting up a new settlement or seeing if the nomad metal workers still hate us yet (I'm pretty sure they do), and especially not sailing around the sea in the hopes of finding something good.
 
[X] [Temple] Sacred Forest
[X] [Clan] Make clan adoption rules better able to handle situations
[X] [Law] Restrict access points (Main Build Wall)
[X] [Diplo] Send missions to the west (Secondary Trade missions to Hathatyn and Metal Workers)
 
Guile said:
I feel like this push towards Sailing Around or trade missions to the Hathatyn/Metal Workers is a bad idea. Well, not a bad idea, but not as important as keeping our fingers on the pulse of the brewing war between the two largest nations in our area.

That's where the important stuff is going down, not the Hathatyn putting up a new settlement or seeing if the nomad metal workers still hate us yet (I'm pretty sure they do), and especially not sailing around the sea in the hopes of finding something good.
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The Lowlands are at war, it must be Tuesday.
 
VoidZero said:
Won't people concerned about gerrymandering? That is only possible if the political leaning of the population is stable and predictable, which in turn requires the population to have minimal moving and/or shifting.
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People will be concerned, but it's not the sort of thing to provoke riots UNLESS, Stability is already shot to hell.

See IRL, where gerrymandering goes on largely unopposed, limited only by the legitimacy and lifespan of the current government system.
NotAlwaysFanfic said:
The bit about Buddhism is only partially true, and the Shintoism flat out wrong. In Japan, both religions got heavily involved in national politics, and the different sects even competed amongst each other to try and be the most respected and fasionable. Like, during the Heian era it was such a mark of honor for a monk to have gone to China to study that many got a lot of credit in the court. Not to mention that during the Sengoku Jidai, the Ikko-ikki were a vicious faction centered around militant Buddhism and was a very strong group.

Granted, this form of politicalization is a good thing, as it was those factions competing for the favor of the Imperial Court, not the control of it. But it is still important thing to be aware of for how our religion could develop in the future.
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Uh...that's already listed in the summations. Buddhism and Shinto mainly got involved in politics on a per-temple/per-shrine level because of how they were structured. The religion didn't integrate itself into politics at such a level that the head of religion was a bigger political player than any king, and intentionally stirring shit at times because that improved their political power by weakening the kings

Now, obviously, temples who saw a winning formula tended to copy things, but it's much more restrained and easier to stopper this way.
Hangwind said:
We have a lot of warriors (and semi-warriors) wandering around with very little to do and a sudden uptick in crime in our city. There's a historical pattern here. Seriously, 1+1=2 here as far as history is concerned. ESPECIALLY with warriors and not soldiers.
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Pretty much yeah. Our people don't quite realize it IC, they're too close to the problem, but the Yeoman system meant that there are a LOT of dudes with small swords, axes or bows walking around, while the City meant that these dudes are packed into a small space and finally, theres nothing for them to fight, but a lot of opportunities to use a little violence to address personal issues.

And a further note on founding a March to vent Martial, at our current Prestige we're only 1 bad turn away from the Prestige dropping below sustainability. A new March really should wait for Prestige 15 so that we have a buffer to spare
Academia Nut said:
There's already an advisor for the city chief. Anyway, the admin advisors are not entirely certain what is best, but at this point they figure that doing things by district or occupation (which will probably turn out similar due to the way things get distributed in terms of work space) would be the least headache inducing for them.
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And as predicted, least effort solutions.

Of course, they also tended to cause the most long term troubles.
 
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[X] [Temple] Sacred Forest
[X] [Clan] Make clan adoption rules better able to handle situations
[X] [Law] Recruit more peacekeepers (Main More Blackbirds)
[X] [Diplo] Send missions to the west (Secondary Trade missions to Hathatyn and Metal Workers)
 
The more that I think about it, the less I'm worried about a martial overflow triggered by Blackbirds. AD tends to have events flow from context, not just pure numbers, and there are some factors that limit the risk in my opinion.

Blackbirds are all spiritually trained, so they have some allegiance to that sector of society. Mysticism currently has a middling profile among our people; this is good, neither so low it causes resentment or so high it represents a threat of leveraging the martial excess to a favorable recalibration of society. Furthermore, we're building a giant temple complex at the spiritual site most closely associated with their focus of spiritual expertise.

If going too high on martial causes problems (and let's be honest, it will) it won't be because of the Blackbirds, and I'm pretty confident they can help deal with it.
 
veekie said:
People will be concerned, but it's not the sort of thing to provoke riots UNLESS, Stability is already shot to hell.

See IRL, where gerrymandering goes on largely unopposed, limited only by the legitimacy and lifespan of the current government system.

Uh...that's already listed in the summations. Buddhism and Shinto mainly got involved in politics on a per-temple/per-shrine level because of how they were structured. The religion didn't integrate itself into politics at such a level that the head of religion was a bigger political player than any king, and intentionally stirring shit at times because that improved their political power by weakening the kings

Now, obviously, temples who saw a winning formula tended to copy things, but it's much more restrained and easier to stopper this way.

Pretty much yeah. Our people don't quite realize it IC, they're too close to the problem, but the Yeoman system meant that there are a LOT of dudes with small swords, axes or bows walking around, while the City meant that these dudes are packed into a small space and finally, theres nothing for them to fight, but a lot of opportunities to use a little violence to address personal issues.

And a further note on founding a March to vent Martial, at our current Prestige we're only 1 bad turn away from the Prestige dropping below sustainability. A new March really should wait for Prestige 15 so that we have a buffer to spare

And as predicted, least effort solutions.

Of course, they also tended to cause the most long term troubles.
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I agree with most of what you said but I do not think it likely for us to lose 5 prestige in one turn.
 
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veekie said:
And a further note on founding a March to vent Martial, at our current Prestige we're only 1 bad turn away from the Prestige dropping below sustainability. A new March really should wait for Prestige 15 so that we have a buffer to spare
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13 is reasonably safe. Dropping below the limit doesn't mean they instantly leave, and we can integrate the stallions if worst comes to worst.


But I seriously don't see what the problem is with enforcing the law considering how few are voting for it. Oh well.
 
[X] [Temple] Sacred Forest
[X] [Clan] Dissolve clans within the city in favour of geographically linked administration
[X] [Law] Restrict access points (Main Build Wall)
[X] [Diplo] Look around for more reasonable people (Main Sailing Mission)
 
[X] [Temple] Sacred Forest
[X] [Clan] Make clan adoption rules better able to handle situations
[X] [Law] Recruit more peacekeepers (Main More Blackbirds)
[X] [Diplo] Remind the lowlands of your wealth and power (Main Salt Gift)
 
DragonParadox said:
I agree with most of what you said but I do not think it likely for us to lose 5 prestige in one turn.
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Uh, that was the point. I've seen scenarios where we can lose 3 points in one turn, or in rapid succession of cascading events from stability hits. I cannot imagine a scenario where we would lose 5 points before we can go completely mad with Proclaim Glory to replenish it after dealing with the problem itself.
notgreat said:
13 is reasonably safe. Dropping below the limit doesn't mean they instantly leave, and we can integrate the stallions if worst comes to worst.
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Based on how the Thunder Speakers and Xohyssiri wound up with their own client states, dropping below the limit DOES mean they immediately leave though
And integrating the Stallions puts us in a strategically bad position exposed to further prestige or action drain from nomads
But I seriously don't see what the problem is with enforcing the law considering how few are voting for it. Oh well.
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Our road networks are still lacking. It eats up Centralization we don't have a way to get rid of so we cannot make more roads.
 
[X] [Temple] Sacred Forest
[X] [Clan] Dissolve clans within the city in favour of geographically linked administration
[X] [Law] Crackdown on all this crime (Main Enforce Law)
[X] [Diplo] Look around for more reasonable people (Main Sailing Mission)
 
DragonParadox said:
I recall the GM saying way back during the Golden Age that it is not instant. I suspect it's different for the lowlanders due to the fact that their vassal states are effectively held at sword-point.
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Even so, we're reliant on our Marches and preserving our Iron advantage. A March going independent even on amicable terms, releases the ironworking to the world. Whoever can charm or beat it out of them.

Not something to gamble on, especially not when we're due to raise Prestige to 15 soon from the Temple anyways.
 
[X] [Clan] Make clan adoption rules better able to handle situations
 
veekie said:
dropping below the limit DOES mean they immediately leave though
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We have word of god that it isn't immediate (though it is likely quite rapid)
Academia Nut said:
Not immediately, but they would be very unstable and would attempt to break away at the first opportunity.
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veekie said:
Our road networks are still lacking. It eats up Centralization we don't have a way to get rid of so we cannot make more roads.
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IMO, Having our people follow our orders is just as important as making sure those orders get communicated to them. And that is what the centralization represented by Enforce Law is: people listening to the king and other central administration instead of doing whatever they think is best. It means they inform the king of more things if they're a little uncertain, and thus more information flows into and out of the capital.

We've done a ton of trails. Far, far more than we've made sure people actually follow what we say and tell us things we need to know. (0 Enforce Law, 3 Restore Order/Harmony).

Example: The king petitions thing cost us hierarchy (because the whole point of it is a way to bypass the hierarchy) and increased centralization (because now the king had more information and could make rules that others would follow).
 
notgreat said:
We have word of god that it isn't immediate (though it is likely quite rapid)

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IMO, Having our people follow our orders is just as important as making sure those orders get communicated to them. And that is what the centralization represented by Enforce Law is: people listening to the king and other central administration instead of doing whatever they think is best. It means they inform the king of more things if they're a little uncertain, and thus more information flows into and out of the capital.

We've done a ton of trails. Far, far more than we've made sure people actually follow what we say and tell us things we need to know. (0 Enforce Law, 3 Restore Order/Harmony).

Example: The king petitions thing cost us hierarchy (because the whole point of it is a way to bypass the hierarchy) and increased centralization (because now the king had more information and could make rules that others would follow).
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We don't have nearly the problem with people listening to the King as with having trails to the new provinces We're still 2 more Trails behind in fact, and have been for a while.
 
[X] [Temple] Sacred Forest
[X] [Clan] Dissolve clans within the city in favour of geographically linked administration
[X] [Law] Restrict access points (Main Build Wall)
[X] [Diplo] Send missions to the west (Secondary Trade missions to Hathatyn and Metal Workers)
 
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[X] [Temple] Sacred Forest
[X] [Law] Recruit more peacekeepers (Main More Blackbirds)
[X] [Clan] Dissolve clans within the city in favour of geographically linked administration
[X] [Diplo] Look around for more reasonable people (Main Sailing Mission)


I will always support moar ninjas!
 
[X] [Temple] Sacred Forest
[X] [Clan] Make clan adoption rules better able to handle situations
[X] [Law] Crackdown on all this crime (Main Enforce Law)
[X] [Diplo] Remind the lowlands of your wealth and power (Main Salt Gift)

Sacred Forest as I see it as being the best of the lot due to it's central location, being a spiritually significant site, and not being directly in a seat of power enabling it to develop it's own legacy.

Clan adoption as it should work quite well with our cosmopolitan focus, and it solves the problem of clans being dispersed throughout the city thus having trouble communicating much less sharing of resources among each other. All of them to some extent or another solve the geographic proximity problem, I just see this as the best given we're in a mega project and we've only just got the city itself. So see how it the functions evolve over time when some of the primary causes are resolved, then build a system afterwards.

Crackdown as we have plenty of Blackbirds, we just need to actually put them to use. We've never done this action before so that's a plus in it's favor, we need some more stability, and even getting the full three centralization it wouldn't push us over red.

Final one is a main salt gift. On it's own this is a phenomenal action, but IMO there are several opportunities that make it even more exceptional. We've just crushed the nomads for a second turn running so it can exploit that avenue for peace for a generation or two allowing our marches to develop themselves, and the Dead Priests have been locked into a golden age for 3 (this is guess from memory?) or more turns with the consequent benefits such as technological and cultural growth and being a trade centre that presumably has access to the Eastern Thunder Horses trade network that expands considerably to the east. We also happen to know that the Dead Priests have a gift giving social value where freely given gifts are more valued and reciprocated, and that it's likely they're suffering illness in their city due to their lack of aqueducts. All this combined for me make this a perfect action.
 
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