Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
You are.
Trade missions are a vector, and people lacking inoculation, probably by their free will, since they did not want to be poked by needles will be sent there as part of the mission.
If some of them become ill while none of the inoculated ones will, we receive our confirmation.
redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
- Location
- Canada
I'm pretty sure veekie mentioned the nomads we're incorporating somewhere. But i might be wrong.
Ah, corrected to say the plan as i understand it.
Honestly we don't have a lot of control over how the chiefs will choose to study it, but this way makes sense to me.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Lol. Don't think it works quite that way but it is hilarious to imagine.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Sorry for double post. There'll probably be several variations. Good and bad, but it is a wide enough effort that we should get confirmation.
Really hoping hard here. *sacrifices blood and shinnies to the dice gods*
Yes, a nice roll here wouldn't hurt.
This said, I am unsure if a "halfturn" action is all that will be needed.
[X] Send missions to the chief belligerents (Secondary Trade missions to Highlanders and Thunder Horse)
[X] Main provinces (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[X] Challenge the validity of the Sacred Warding (???)
[X] Main provinces (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[X] Challenge the validity of the Sacred Warding (???)
TheDanishLord
Viking Warlord
- Location
- Denmark
Question do we have salt cured meat and/or fish
If not we got the salt and it will help with food and mil rations
If not we got the salt and it will help with food and mil rations
Missing something big:
-We need people who are not innoculated unless we want to use children for it. Children generally don't go on trade caravans to dangerous areas.
--We got this handy batch of new migrants, who we can simply not apply the ritual to. Additionally, nomads tend to have less tolerance for starpox than lowlanders as it is difficult to make a disease endemic in their low population densities, so they don't tend to get much genetic resistance .
-We need a source of star pox. Theres no source in our own polity due to the Sacred Warding.
--Sending traders down to the Lowlands means exposure to the star pox. This is not a concern for our traders generally, as they are innoculated and can't get infected. However, any refugees-turned-traders not innoculated and going on the same journey has no such protection.
---Meanwhile the Carrion Eaters going along take notes.
It's one of the earliest uses of salt, no worries there.
maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
There is one guaranteed way of sparking an epidemic.
Start a massive war against the southerners - lowlanders , disease will spread like wildfire
Start a massive war against the southerners - lowlanders , disease will spread like wildfire
The idea of an endemic disease is that it's basically everywhere already, if you want a sample you just need to meet someone at all.
[X] Send missions to the chief belligerents (Secondary Trade missions to Highlanders and Thunder Horse)
[X] Main provinces (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[X] Challenge the validity of the Sacred Warding (???)
[X] Main provinces (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[X] Challenge the validity of the Sacred Warding (???)
Theunderbolt
"Prepare for trouble..."
- Location
- USoA
[X] Send missions to the chief belligerents (Secondary Trade missions to Highlanders and Thunder Horse)
[X] Main provinces (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[X] Challenge the validity of the Sacred Warding (???)
[X] Main provinces (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[X] Challenge the validity of the Sacred Warding (???)
Didn't we first learn about this technique through observing that nomad populations tended to sporadically be more resistant to starpox than our own people? And then we realized that it was some of the women who handled their cattle who were immune?
TheDanishLord
Viking Warlord
- Location
- Denmark
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Actually no, it was specifically that only the women were resistant but the nomads died to the star pox under the DOOM comet like everyone else.
Turns out if only your adult women handling cows are innoculated it doesn't actually DO anything for herd immunity or overall developing immunity at all.
I do feel the need to point out that the sacred warding only works because of a large, expensive-to-maintain, and professionally manged reservoir of cowpox. If the reservoir is neglected and the cowpox supply collapses, simply resuming the rituals won't make it work again. The People will have to isolate another strain of cowpox.
They originally got it from a lucky break with the Nomads and their huge aggregate cattle population, but that little bit of information may not have carried through the ages. That's if there are enough Nomads left to begin with. They've been thoroughly wrecked, especially in the People's lands. The ones who survived seem to be in the process of being absorbed by the various settled peoples.
Keep in mind that smallpox immunity is for life. If you start with a 100% inoculated population, and then inoculation rates start to drop as the process is questioned (It almost certainly won't stop immediately nation-wide. Traditions linger and fade), and combine that with the low rates of migration in this era and the fact that the migrants will for the most part have already survived the disease, it could easily take more than a generation for herd immunity to drop low enough for a conclusively compelling demonstration to occur.
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That's why we're taking in refugees who are not innoculated and have not yet been exposed. The migrants are from the steppe tribes, whose low population tends to kill off smallpox outbreaks by running out of people to spread to in times of stress(and with the recent massacres, it's a LOT of stress).
Smallpox is strongly endemic in settled populations due to higher population density, but Nomads tended to be overall more free of disease...mostly due to them living on the margins and dying pretty fast when punted off them(i.e. they generally go Healthy -> Dead rather than a settled population's tendensy to stay at Sick without actually expiring entirely). Nomad populations generally couldn't afford to keep feeding the non-productive sick for very long without the whole tribe going with them...
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As far as AN's indications go, they're questioning why we're keeping so many smelly and noisy cows near the city more than anything else. If the challenge fails then we'd probably still keep the meat(which is a convenient part of the practice that's good for the modern Ymaryn), but likely move them out of the city and just use hospices instead of these outmolded cow shrines.
- Location
- USA
[X] Send missions to the chief belligerents (Secondary Trade missions to Highlanders and Thunder Horse)
[X] Main provinces (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[X] Challenge the validity of the Sacred Warding (???)
The option most likely to get what we want, i.e. that it's important to challenge beliefs because some are wrong (metal is cursed) but some are right (sacred warding). I'm a little hesitant because with a crit fail I could see us losing our smallpox inoculation program. But I think it's very unlikely-vaccination is SO GOOD that it aught to be fairly obvious.
[X] Main provinces (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[X] Challenge the validity of the Sacred Warding (???)
The option most likely to get what we want, i.e. that it's important to challenge beliefs because some are wrong (metal is cursed) but some are right (sacred warding). I'm a little hesitant because with a crit fail I could see us losing our smallpox inoculation program. But I think it's very unlikely-vaccination is SO GOOD that it aught to be fairly obvious.
- Location
- Mists of Albion
If it succeeds is what I'm asking. If we start to reduce our connection to cattle or reduce their numbers due to a successful challenge than it could lead to the destruction of a very beneficial and cool part of Ymaryn culture
As a still fairly primitive agragrian society, they will certainly not care about the smell or noise. Even as recent as the 18th century it was fairly normal for farmers to share living space with their livestock. The same holds true for people in towns and cities of that era.
What the Ymaryn are questioning is the resource expense of the sacred warding. They probably don't even notice that the smell is a big issue because it's normal for them.