The day nomads acquire siegecraft is the day paying tribute becomes most likely cheaper and more efficient option. Unless you want all our cities to become smoldering ruing with pyramids of skulls around. *looks and Chenghiz and Tamerlan*

Like, when I said that weathering those nomadic pushes was an impressive feat, I've meant it. Nomads are really dangerous, and they've not hit peak of their danger yet - this will come with cavalry+siegecraft+them having actual army and tributary structure instead of a mere rampaging horde. Then we are all either paying tribute or, barring hilarious crits on our side and critfails on their, we are all but dead.
*pats you on the head* Agreed-ish, which is why we should start expanding now before the king who took over the MW strengthens his ties and furthers the development of a tributary system.
Challenge Plan

1. [Main] Study Tailings (-1Stab)
1. [Secondary] Policy: Balanced/Restoration
1. Free Secondary, more Survey Lands if we don't find another Mine? Stability option?

2. [Main] Study Health
2. [Main] Study Metal (-1Stab)

This leaves
3. [Main] Build Mine (-1Stab)
I support this plan. I'd rather do this though:
Now: Survey Lands now so that we can find a mine,
Next turn do: [Main] Study Tailings + [secondary] Progress + [secondary] Mine,
then: [Main] study metal + [Main] GS

This has us finish in ~2 turns, econ and events allowing.

The Haythn are asking to get punched now and shouts out to our fishermen kicking ass even though we haven't expanded boats in forever.
Yeah we should expand boats and send out sailing missions to develop better ships soon. Better ships are useful for ocean trade, fishing, and rivers. I.e., everything that involves water.

Nope. With Hathatyn being dicks, Thunder Horses strengthening their hold over the Thunder Speakers and HK being probably up to no good, we'll soon have more than enough enemies for our warriors.
We have a shitton of martial and a small investment now prevents a need to waste actions on war to the north later (other than those required by Loyalty, ofc). If we establish the march now it can build up settlements; fortify the area with trees, walls & watchtowers; create trails; and expand warriors. I.e., the sooner we start the better.

Establish a way of maintaining communications reliably across thousands of kilometres and a way to make the steppes be more favourable for agriculture rather than herding and you can conquer the steppes, yes.
1) Make the library and figure out a way to develop paper so that our messengers have an easier time carrying messages.
2) Make watchtowers and thus postal services widespread.
3) Black Soil + Trees + Aqueducts that suck water from the river system out into the surrounding lands.

Going afk for like 2-3 hours, glhf. Don't do anything I wouldn't do.
 
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This makes me 100% certain that we want to Survey now. It's a 3 turn chain to build the mine (Survey -> Settlement -> Mine) so we need to do that ASAP.
Depends where they find the mine site really. it could just be a site is found in the already claimed land. It could also mean that it takes multiple actions to find a site. Personally, I think that is best subcontracted.
You seem to not understand that taking more steppe means that now we have to protect more steppe from nomads. Which is a worthless action sink.
That makes sense if it wasn't the new marches literaly job to handle that site. it exists to handle this. Its not really our problem. This is why you build a March in the first place. To make that land someone else's problem. It also helps secure to route for sea trade. Also, expands are effective trade range. So not useless... that would be settling North of the Stallions.
And with all the Hathatyn running around and not!Persians menacing to the east, they are not going to be left without things to do any time soon.
Yes there explicitly are. Its like 7-10 years until next turn. They will be sitting around bored until such a point. There will still be like 12 points of martial sitting around even after they leave.
 
Yes there explicitly are. Its like 7-10 years until next turn. They will be sitting around bored until such a point. There will still be like 12 points of martial sitting around even after they leave.

And, given how big not!Persians are, those 12 points might just not be good enough to convincingly win, honestly. They are, what, 5-6 times our size? With much more experience at war to boot?
 
And, given how big not!Persians are, those 12 points might just not be good enough to convincingly win, honestly. They are, what, 5-6 times our size? With much more experience at war to boot?
We'll have the advantage of not operating at the end of a supply chain, and defensive infrastructure. Plus hills (badlands aren't easy terrain for plain-nations to contest.)
 
Another reason we should do survey first...what if we find a deposit of a metal other than copper or iron? Then we'll need to use study metal to know what to do with it anyway, so doing study metal first wouldn't help with that.
 
We don't know if they'll do it for sure. It makes sense to find the mine early, IMO.
While I AM on the survey train, AN said that the provinces would be super smart in attempting to help us finish the challenge. If we needed a survey, and we had them set on any policy that PERMITTED a survey, they would take it. I just think we should get it rolling sooner rather than later, because it's at the beginning of the longest chain.
 
[X] Yes, send out the warriors (-5 Martial, -2 Econ)
[X] Attempt peaceful contact
[X] Survey Lands (-1 Econ, improved odds of success)
 
Said no King ever. Kings are known for declaring war just so bored warriors have something to do... (aside from their usual anti-stability hobbies.)


Bored warriors create thier own incitives to fight, and fights are never not beneficial until standard issue rifles become a thing.

It's warriors that havnt fought for a long time or sedentary garrison/gaurd troops that are every Kings nightmare as thier power becomes detached from actual fighting and so become just another political threat.

And at that point they can't be called warriors, but militarised politicians.
 
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We'll have the advantage of not operating at the end of a supply chain, and defensive infrastructure. Plus hills (badlands aren't easy terrain for plain-nations to contest.)

Well, yes, but I am rather annoyed by people thinking we are invincible and thus throwing away our warriors to the north when we clearly have the war (and maybe more than one) brewing to the south. We need our army in the south, not north, because logistics are a thing and redeploying will take time, by which they will raid our lands and....and.


And Bleeding Cliff is in Southshore (which is contested area) and is unwalled. So with us sending off our warriors to the north we are increasing chance of gifting away our iron to the Hathatyn raiders.
 
And our northern borders will give plenty for the warriors to do, albeit we should really develop rotation to avoid what happend with the Romans or the Ottomans.
 
fights are never not beneficial until standard issue rifles become a thing.
WHUT?!

We just spent something like 12-15 action equivalents fighting, with one minor tech development coming from it. That's a HORRIBLE waste.

And that's ignoring the incredible anti-humanitarian perspective that has. Our villages were burned. Our women raped. Our men brutally killed. And you want to say that was beneficial??
 
Well, yes, but I am rather annoyed by people thinking we are invincible and thus throwing away our warriors to the north when we clearly have the war (and maybe more than one) brewing to the south. We need our army in the south, not north, because logistics are a thing and redeploying will take time, by which they will raid our lands and....and.


And Bleeding Cliff is in Southshore (which is contested area) and is unwalled. So with us sending off our warriors to the north we are increasing chance of gifting away our iron to the Hathatyn raiders.

Having red martial is a known and present danger. Thunder Horse attacking is a potential danger which most of us think we can handle with "just" 10-12 martial or so. We are not exactly driving the score low by any measure.
 
Well, yes, but I am rather annoyed by people thinking we are invincible and thus throwing away our warriors to the north when we clearly have the war (and maybe more than one) brewing to the south. We need our army in the south, not north, because logistics are a thing and redeploying will take time, by which they will raid our lands and....and.


And Bleeding Cliff is in Southshore (which is contested area) and is unwalled. So with us sending off our warriors to the north we are increasing chance of gifting away our iron to the Hathatyn raiders.
I completely agree that our primary threats are south and east for the forseeable future. On the other hand, a second march up north provides us with additional nomad protection while we deal with any future issue to the south.

And I really think 12 martial is enough for any time we aren't actually on a war footing. Which we aren't yet.
 
[X] Yes, send out the warriors (-5 Martial, -2 Econ)
[X] Attempt peaceful contact
[X] Survey Lands (-1 Econ,improved odds of success)


For Vengeance!

For innocents enslaved and Slaughtered!

Now I am going to bed.
 
They don't even know how to make Iron or even that it exists.

I doubt they have not seen starmetal or cannot recognise metal tools lying around.

Having red martial is a known and present danger. Thunder Horse attacking is a potential danger which most of us think we can handle with "just" 10-12 martial or so. We are not exactly driving the score low by any measure.

In the last update, Hathatyn are clearly gearing up for war over the Southshore, like, right now. They are present danger too.
 
WHUT?!

We just spent something like 12-15 action equivalents fighting, with one minor tech development coming from it. That's a HORRIBLE waste.

And that's ignoring the incredible anti-humanitarian perspective that has. Our villages were burned. Our women raped. Our men brutally killed. And you want to say that was beneficial??
This is the same guy who believes that we should invest all power in the hands of landed nobility immediately. I don't take him seriously, and you probably shouldn't either
 
WHUT?!

We just spent something like 12-15 action equivalents fighting, with one minor tech development coming from it. That's a HORRIBLE waste.

And that's ignoring the incredible anti-humanitarian perspective that has. Our villages were burned. Our women raped. Our men brutally killed. And you want to say that was beneficial??

Mate we're in the copper age, the concept of intrinsic value to human life is several millenia away from being a thing.

As for benefits. Win you get slaves and loot or land. Loose and you get experience and maybe new ideas for next time. War and fighting was so commen in the olden days it was a fact of life. Water is wet, plants grow on soils and summer is war season.
 
And our northern borders will give plenty for the warriors to do, albeit we should really develop rotation to avoid what happend with the Romans or the Ottomans.
What happened with the Romans and Ottomans?

WHUT?!

We just spent something like 12-15 action equivalents fighting, with one minor tech development coming from it. That's a HORRIBLE waste.

And that's ignoring the incredible anti-humanitarian perspective that has. Our villages were burned. Our women raped. Our men brutally killed. And you want to say that was beneficial??
For the nomads it was. It's beneficial for the aggressors.
 
In the last update, Hathatyn are clearly gearing up for war over the Southshore, like, right now. They are present danger too.
I don't think that's a fair description. They're being aggressive, yes. And we need to be prepared. But as far as we can tell, their goal isn't war, it's concessions.
 
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