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Paths of Civilization

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[X] Stockpile resources for the return of the Doom Comet (+1 Stability if over 5 Econ by mid-turn next turn, ???)
True, the spirit stuck inside him might be a demon from the south, but worst case scenario we have more food stockpiled.
 
tenchifew said:
I am tempted just to wait for the comet before going for the iron mine just to not coincidentally have it happening on the same turn.
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As far as we can tell theres no particular Comet coming. It wasn't even the main content of his speech, which was 80% about the dangers of metal in metaphors.

We'd wait a turn for it to fade from memory first, thats all.
At least unless we actually buy into it and now people are waiting for it to come true.

Seriously,please stop helping the superstition get a foothold. This one will be extra debilitating when its not just a narrow field affected and legitimately impossible to disprove indefinitely.
 
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Tally
Adhoc vote count started by Killer_Whale on May 18, 2017 at 6:18 AM, finished with 212 posts and 64 votes.
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Omegahugger said:
[X] Stockpile resources for the return of the Doom Comet (+1 Stability if over 5 Econ by mid-turn next turn, ???)
True, the spirit stuck inside him might be a demon from the south, but worst case scenario we have more food stockpiled.
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Well that and an extra helping of persistent superstitious stupidity.

If there is a demon of idiocy it would be laughing its head off.
 
veekie said:
As far as we can tell theres no particular Comet coming. It wasn't even the main content of his speech, which was 80% about the dangers of metal in metaphors.

We'd wait a turn for it to fade from memory first, thats all.
At least unless we actually buy into it and now people are waiting for it to come true.

Seriously,please stop helping the superstition get a foothold. This one will be extra debilitating when its not just a narrow field affected and legitimately impossible to disprove indefinitely.
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I already switched to "him being just sick", because yes, our people seeing signs in everything and some people trying to use/create prophets would be extremely annoying.
 
Omegahugger said:
[X] Stockpile resources for the return of the Doom Comet (+1 Stability if over 5 Econ by mid-turn next turn, ???)
True, the spirit stuck inside him might be a demon from the south, but worst case scenario we have more food stockpiled.
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But we can stockpile food regardless? This option doesn't enable us to gain econ any faster than normal.
 
[X] This man is sick, care for him butignore his ramblings (???)
[X] Trade mission to the Metal Workers (-1 Diplomacy)
 
DragonParadox said:
Well that and an extra helping of persistent superstitious stupidity.

If there is a demon of idiocy it would be laughing its head off.
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You say "superstitious stupidity", but at the same time we actually have no proof that this isn't a supernatural world. Heck, in theory we might not even be playing as a civ, but rather retroactively shaping a civ's founding stories. That is to say, what we do here isn't what actually happens, but rather 'things thought to have happened'.
A theory that's 120% unsupported by the text, but technically not disproven.

Even if it is, 'believes in omens' is far from the worst debilitating belief to have. And it's not like believing metal to be cursed is stopping us from getting ahead of everyone in that regard.
Killer_Whale said:
But we can stockpile food regardless? This option doesn't enable us to gain econ any faster than normal.
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True, but we won't get +1 Stability from that. And we won't be emotionally prepared in case the comet actually comes.
Which my gut says it does, hence my vote.
 
Omegahugger said:
You say "superstitious stupidity", but at the same time we actually have no proof that this isn't a supernatural world. Heck, in theory we might not even be playing as a civ, but rather retroactively shaping a civ's founding stories. That is to say, what we do here isn't what actually happens, but rather 'things thought to have happened'.
A theory that's 120% unsupported by the text, but technically not disproven.

Even if it is, 'believes in omens' is far from the worst debilitating belief to have. And it's not like believing metal to be cursed is stopping us from getting ahead of everyone in that regard.

True, but we won't get +1 Stability from that. And we won't be emotionally prepared in case the comet actually comes.
Which my gut says it does, hence my vote.
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Believing one's gut over observed reality is precisely the problem IC. Generally thinking should be done with something a little more suited to the task than the digestive system.

Also we already believe in omens as much as any other primitive society. The issue is exacerbating the tendency to the point where policy comes out of a sheep's entrails or the people find fault with it.
 
DragonParadox said:
Believing one's gut over observed reality is precisely the problem IC. Generally thinking should be done with something a little more suited to the task than the digestive system.

Also we already believe in omens as much as any other primitive society. The issue is exacerbating the tendency to the point where policy comes out of a sheep's entrails or the people find fault with it.
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The last time my gut had an opinion on a matter which we had no information on, it told me that the Spirit Talkers, not the Dead Priests, were the ones who took the Star Axe. Which turned out to be true. While I cannot say with certainty that it's correct, it currently has a better hit-than-miss ratio. Hence why I put my faith in it.
It's not like we have any proof the comet isn't coming either.

And it should be remembered that IIRC, the most omen-believing people we've met were the Spirit Talkers. The ones who were actually capable of predicting the comet and prepare/make use of it.
(And, of course, if this event leads to us believing in heavily omens and using sheep-entrails for revelations, we got off lucky. Given the original event, we could end up concussing people, drilling holes in their head and listening to what happens)
 
Omegahugger said:
You say "superstitious stupidity", but at the same time we actually have no proof that this isn't a supernatural world. Heck, in theory we might not even be playing as a civ, but rather retroactively shaping a civ's founding stories. That is to say, what we do here isn't what actually happens, but rather 'things thought to have happened'.
A theory that's 120% unsupported by the text, but technically not disproven.

Even if it is, 'believes in omens' is far from the worst debilitating belief to have. And it's not like believing metal to be cursed is stopping us from getting ahead of everyone in that regard.

True, but we won't get +1 Stability from that. And we won't be emotionally prepared in case the comet actually comes.
Which my gut says it does, hence my vote.
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It might be.
My problem with it is, even if true, we are in a very low magical world.

And omens, prophecies and prophets are as often a problem as a boon even if they actually work.

As soon as we have someone reliably showing telepathy, telekinesis or shooting fire out of his hands I will be the first to support any and all magic research.

But as long as we have not, I am rather against getting more superstitions, especially since it is well known risk of the observance trait.
 
Omegahugger said:
The last time my gut had an opinion on a matter which we had no information on, it told me that the Spirit Talkers, not the Dead Priests, were the ones who took the Star Axe. Which turned out to be true. While I cannot say with certainty that it's correct, it currently has a better hit-than-miss ratio. Hence why I put my faith in it.
It's not like we have any proof the comet isn't coming either.

And it should be remembered that IIRC, the most omen-believing people we've met were the Spirit Talkers. The ones who were actually capable of predicting the comet and prepare/make use of it.
(And, of course, if this event leads to us believing in heavily omens and using sheep-entrails for revelations, we got off lucky. Given the original event, we could end up concussing people, drilling holes in their head and listening to what happens)
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Spirit Talkers had the same problem we have - observation trait and no easy way to get rid of the superstitions picked up thanks to it.
 
Omegahugger said:
True, but we won't get +1 Stability from that. And we won't be emotionally prepared in case the comet actually comes.
Which my gut says it does, hence my vote.
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Except it pretty much ensures the worst outcome.

Scenarios:
-Believe + Prepare
--No Comet next turn: Superstition primed. If anything goes wrong in the next 2 turns, belief is validated.
--Comet next turn: Superstition locked in.

-Believe + Not Prepare(i.e. crazy)
--No Comet next turn: Superstition primed. If anything goes wrong in the next 2 turns, belief is validated AND riots.
--Comet next turn: Superstition locked in AND riots.

-Not Believe + Prepare
--No Comet next turn: Superstition evaded.
--Comet next turn: Superstition primed, but we have the resources to deal with any comet induced trouble.

-Not Believe + Not Prepare
--No Comet next turn: Superstition evaded.
--No Comet next turn: Superstition locked in AND riots.

With Prepare being:
-Main Expand Economy to create a stockpile
-Secondary Survey to check the land for issues
-Secondary Study Stars to look for comets before they become obvious

Even if it was supernatural, it would be more useful to independently validate the threat. Because anyone can play at being a raving prophet once the idea goes out there. Whether it's from mercury fumes, suspicious herbs, trauma brain damage, or political brain damage, they can now be believed.

This is what we did with metal. We got the samples, studied how they worked, figured out containment, then acted on it.
This is what we did with disease. We got the samples, studied how they worked, figured out containment, then acted on it.
This is what we didn't do with taxes. We got an idea and implemented it immediately.
 
Omegahugger said:
The last time my gut had an opinion on a matter which we had no information on, it told me that the Spirit Talkers, not the Dead Priests, were the ones who took the Star Axe. Which turned out to be true. While I cannot say with certainty that it's correct, it currently has a better hit-than-miss ratio. Hence why I put my faith in it.
It's not like we have any proof the comet isn't coming either.

And it should be remembered that IIRC, the most omen-believing people we've met were the Spirit Talkers. The ones who were actually capable of predicting the comet and prepare/make use of it.
(And, of course, if this event leads to us believing in heavily omens and using sheep-entrails for revelations, we got off lucky. Given the original event, we could end up concussing people, drilling holes in their head and listening to what happens)
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  1. One time you guessed right does not a pattern make.
  2. I saw no indication that the Spirit Talkers were capable of any supernatural feats. The most magical thing they did (purportedly hitting a man with lightning) was relayed to us in garbled fifth-hand rumor
 
I really want us to take a main proclaim glory action.

I am very uncomfortable to be at 0 stability and only 2 legitimacy.

Something along the lines of:

[main] proclaim glory
[main] expand economy
 
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tenchifew said:
Spirit Talkers had the same problem we have - observation trait and no easy way to get rid of the superstitions picked up thanks to it.
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AN had implied they were fucked on farms due to picking up a superstition they didn't get rid of(because it cost Stability each time to try) and were dead convinced they could Study through it(which was impossible)
 
[X] This man is sick, care for him but ignore his ramblings (???)
[X] Military scouting mission

We have plenty of martial right now, so i'm not concerned about spending a small bit of it for more direct information. It's unlikely that the hero is alive and if he is, he's likely very old and about to die.

I'd rather directly combat the observance and metal superstition.
 
veekie said:
AN had implied they were fucked on farms due to picking up a superstition they didn't get rid of(because it cost Stability each time to try) and were dead convinced they could Study through it(which was impossible)
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I thought they were at 0 econ and since their farming was so undeveloped, it costed economy to invest?

Edit: double post apologies.
 
[X] Stockpile resources for the return of the Doom Comet (+1 Stability if over 5 Econ by mid-turn next turn, ???)
[X] Trade mission to the Metal Workers (-1 Diplomacy)

Cause metal? Tho, I feel like TH will give better odds.
 
Actually, come to think of it, maybe picking up a debilitating belief related to omens might actually be good for us.

Now hear me out. I know it sounds like something our new 'prophet' might say, but look at the history of the Ymaryn here.

After the Star Axe debacle we obtained the value 'Honour in Nobility', which has the demerit of making heroes more rare. This was imediately followed by three hero units leading the People in a row.
When we finished the Gardens, we acquired the debilitating belief 'Weapons of the Gods', which greatly limits our ability to study metals. Four turns later, the Ymaryn discovered iron.

Clearly our people has some sort of hidden Trait that turns negative effects into positives instead, gameplay numbers be damned.
 
Omegahugger said:
Actually, come to think of it, maybe picking up a debilitating belief related to omens might actually be good for us.

Now hear me out. I know it sounds like something our new 'prophet' might say, but look at the history of the Ymaryn here.

After the Star Axe debacle we obtained the value 'Honour in Nobility', which has the demerit of making heroes more rare. This was imediately followed by three hero units leading the People in a row.
When we finished the Gardens, we acquired the debilitating belief 'Weapons of the Gods', which greatly limits our ability to study metals. Four turns later, the Ymaryn discovered iron.

Clearly our people has some sort of hidden Trait that turns negative effects into positives instead, gameplay numbers be damned.
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Nobility in humility is not a negative. It is neutral since it makes crit fails rarer and less damaging. Hence why it is a value and not a debilitating belief
 
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