I.....have no idea what to do. I mean, it's tempting. SOOOOOOOOOO tempting, but those costs....I think I'm just gonna sit this out and let the thread decide on this one. That way, I can claim to be innocent of any wrong doing.:D
 
[X] Protect him and have him teach his knowledge (-4 Stability, -2 Legitimacy, -10 Mysticism, -10 Art, -2 Prestige, chance of infuriating the Metal Workers, gain Iron Smelting study chain)
 
It becomes a matter of speed. Whoever finishes first wins.
Frankly, there's nothing stopping us from bowing our heads, paying token acknowledgement to the Emperor, and then boiling out with an army of iron-using warriors and carving out an independent nation from their hides. Especially with the fact that as a heavily centralized nation we can probably keep a lid on the secrets of iron longer than most.
 
"Academia Nut" said:
The current chief of the Stallion Tribes, Harkwyn, had reported with some fear that without the support of the rest of the People he was afraid that everything outside their walled cities would have already been overrun and his people swept away.
Sounds as if the March won't be making any trouble and seem to be thankful for our help. However they may feel that we are shifting away resources and focus away from an imminent threat towards them although that isn't that case.
 
[X] Protect him and have him teach his knowledge (-4 Stability, -2 Legitimacy, -10 Mysticism, -10 Art, -2 Prestige, chance of infuriating the Metal Workers, gain Iron Smelting study chain)

Hell yeah. Let's become better Metal Workers than the Metal Workers!
 
[X] Protect him and have him teach his knowledge (-4 Stability, -2 Legitimacy, -10 Mysticism, -10 Art, -2 Prestige, chance of infuriating the Metal Workers, gain Iron Smelting study chain)
 
increased social stratification
Well, that was predictable.

[X] Protect him and have him teach his knowledge (-4 Stability, -2 Legitimacy, -10 Mysticism, -10 Art, -2 Prestige, chance of infuriating the Metal Workers, gain Iron Smelting study chain)

@Academia Nut would [] Learn from him, then exile him to the Highlanders be an acceptable write-in? Sort of a plausible deniability thing. "Oh, yes, he was most impulsive, most impulsive indeed! We punished him for it in fact!" Or maybe we could make him a permanent half-exile working on the metal? Most of our neighbors would see that as slavery, and our own people might(?) find it an acceptable punishment given our superstitions about metal?
Adhoc vote count started by Hangwind on May 15, 2017 at 9:53 PM, finished with 34464 posts and 34 votes.
 
@Academia Nut would [] Learn from him, then exile him to the Highlanders be an acceptable write-in? Sort of a plausible deniability thing. "Oh, yes, he was most impulsive, most impulsive indeed! We punished him for it in fact!" Or maybe we could make him a permanent half-exile working on the metal? Most of our neighbors would see that as slavery, and our own people might(?) find it an acceptable punishment given our superstitions about metal?
Academia Nut doesn't allow write ins.
 
Seems appropriate to me. Leaving behind the filthy mon-keigh in their primitiveness and all.
That is true, the Elfs are known for having superior weaponry. Just the fact that is iron that is a little dissonant from what I know is all.
Well, that was predictable.

[X] Protect him and have him teach his knowledge (-4 Stability, -2 Legitimacy, -10 Mysticism, -10 Art, -2 Prestige, chance of infuriating the Metal Workers, gain Iron Smelting study chain)

@Academia Nut would [] Learn from him, then exile him to the Highlanders be an acceptable write-in? Sort of a plausible deniability thing. "Oh, yes, he was most impulsive, most impulsive indeed! We punished him for it in fact!" Or maybe we could make him a permanent half-exile working on the metal? Most of our neighbors would see that as slavery, and our own people might(?) find it an acceptable punishment given our superstitions about metal?
That sound like trying to have your cake and eat it.:p

And we all know how that ends! DX
 
Damn, we're going to have to multitask like we've never multitasked before to pull this off. Also shit, the lowest we've ever gone during the tax crisis was 2 legitimacy. I don't want to know what happens in the negatives.

Okay, if we're going to pull this shit off, we're going to do it in style. Taking it likely means we lose Diplomacy as well, thanks to us pissing off the Metal Workers, as well as an extra Prestige hit and hostile relations for the next century or so. This means we're likely to end up at

General
Diplomacy 10 [-1] (result of our only significant trade partner embargoing us and encouraging with weapons that everyone else do the same)
Economy 5
Martial 12

Stability
Stability -1 (expected)
Legitimacy 1 (damn this is going to hurt)

Organizational
Centralization 3 (New Trails would be great, but not the time)
Hierarchy 6

Cultural
Art 4 (need to use this to get Legitimacy back, not going to be fun, no other way to do so)
Mysticism 4 (going to leave us at risk of DOOM!)
Prestige 9 (might also drop as a result of backstabbing Metal Workers)

This only unlocks the study chain. We also need to constantly be raising stability, and we'll likely need multiple turns that cost us -1 stability, so we'll be basically forced for the next two turns to take RoO (my god that's horrifyingly efficient) and some Proclaim Glory.

If we're doing that, then the best secondary action we can take is a policy switch. If we're attacked, our 12 Martial should let our provinces stomp whoever's attacking into the ground. With a policy switch, we need to know what we need to survive here, and that's Mysticism and maybe some Art to fuel Proclaim Glory. Therefore we should switch to Spirits, which lets us get both for Econ which we'll run low on, but it'll let us bounce back quickly. (thinking it looks like maybe we'll get 4 mysticism and 2 art from double Mained Expand Holy Sites to drop us at exactly 1 econ, and CA is likely to trigger at least once)

This'll push us up to 4 Art and 8 Mysticism, but repair work still needs to be done. Hopefully this isn't a "race against the clock before you lose the knowledge", otherwise it's going to be very difficult. The second turn is likely to be another RoO(because even if we get lucky and go to 1 stab, something is bound to happen which drops us down to 0) with Secondary Proc Glory, restoring us to max legitimacy. The secondary is a loose one - if we have to invest in Econ expansion, Econ expansion, but if the study chain can be started there we start the chain. If all else fails and we're attacked, shift policy to Attack so that we can utilize our 12 martial with our provinces for a double War mission while we go and do something like expand econ or just generate econ in general.

That's about as much as I want to type up before letting other people read; please comment/critique so that we can survive this and come out with IRON.
[X] Protect him and have him teach his knowledge (-4 Stability, -2 Legitimacy, -10 Mysticism, -10 Art, -2 Prestige, chance of infuriating the Metal Workers, gain Iron Smelting study chain)​
 
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If we take this path, from the point of view of our people we'd be stealing the weapons of the gods.

I'd bet on our people trying to keep a lid on it.
Too right! ...This isn't just the Chalcolithic, most of our comparative civs consider copper the latest superweapon. We're not even in the early Bronze Age yet, if we were we'd know it and even then Bronze is a pain in the ass to alloy because tin is rare. Iron in this time period is crazy because it lets you pull quality weapons, armor, and tools essentially out of your ass where everyone else is dicking around with flint-tool equivalents for the most part.


Honestly, the Ymaryn are a very atypical and frightening culture by the standards of the day. Our religion and focus on defensive warfare make us very nasty, and iron lets us leverage our economic power in a very new and scary way. This could easily be the ticket to the kind of path Rome walked.

I know a lot of people were looking for a more peaceful time to make this kind of jump forward, but I'd agree with some earlier posters that we were in danger of stagnating from a military standpoint. This breaks that status quo, and our military and economy are untouched by the change- we're still scary, and in a generation or two we'll be terrifying.
 
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Too right! ...This isn't just the Chalcolithic, most of our comparative civs consider copper the latest superweapon. We're not even in the early Bronze Age yet, if we were we'd know it and even then Bronze is a pain in the ass to alloy because tin is rare. Iron in this time period is crazy because it lets you pull quality weapons, armor, and tools essentially out of your ass where everyone else is dicking around with flint-tool equivalents for the most part.
Bronze is still better then Iron weapon for weapon.
 
[X] Protect him and have him teach his knowledge (-4 Stability, -2 Legitimacy, -10 Mysticism, -10 Art, -2 Prestige, chance of infuriating the Metal Workers, gain Iron Smelting study chain)



This music came faster than antecipated... we got a hyper beamed, would iron be our super metroid savior, who will grant us Hyper Beam to steamroll our enemies?
 
Frankly, there's nothing stopping us from bowing our heads, paying token acknowledgement to the Emperor, and then boiling out with an army of iron-using warriors and carving out an independent nation from their hides. Especially with the fact that as a heavily centralized nation we can probably keep a lid on the secrets of iron longer than most.
I doubt it. Victors sweeping through town is a classic, and all it takes is one curious warrior...
This means we're likely to end up at
Waay ahead of you, posted comparisons and all :3
Hopefully this isn't a "race against the clock before you lose the knowledge", otherwise it's going to be very difficult.
It isn't. This just alerts people that the reddish rock is actually the same thing as the star rocks. It basically unlocks the iron working path. We still need to put effort into using it.
Bronze is still better then Iron weapon for weapon.
But Iron is vastly more accessible once you have the tech. It is everywhere.
 
It isn't. This just alerts people that the reddish rock is actually the same thing as the star rocks. It basically unlocks the iron working path. We still need to put effort into using it.
How much you wanna bet that basically everyone that believes in the Weapons Of The Gods trait is going to be suppressing the hell out of those crazy disharmonious lunatics playing with the devil's toys?

Edit: I don't mean to sound hostile, but I don't expect our civ to have good institutional memory here. If we had gotten a slightly less competent king we would have never seen this because that disharmonious lunatic would have been executed with great pomp and ceremony. His disciples are likely to not be treated well either, so the knowledge might be on a very short clock.
 
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How much you wanna bet that basically everyone that believes in the Weapons Of The Gods trait is going to be suppressing the hell out of those crazy disharmonious lunatics playing with the devil's toys?

Edit: I don't mean to sound hostile, but I don't expect our civ to have good institutional memory here. If we had gotten a slightly less competent king we would have never seen this because that disharmonious lunatic would have been executed with great pomp and ceremony. His disciples are likely to not be treated well either, so the knowledge might be on a very short clock.
Listen to me: I am willing to let our Civilization burn to the ground for this technology. This is literally more important than anything else. This is the kind of thing that changes the course of history.
 
We have quality troops and might be able to get iron later on while the rest of the civs are entering a bronze age. We can't let this get to others. They might just skip the Bronze Age as well.
 
[X] Protect him and have him teach his knowledge (-4 Stability, -2 Legitimacy, -10 Mysticism, -10 Art, -2 Prestige, chance of infuriating the Metal Workers, gain Iron Smelting study chain)
 
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