Some of us might suggest that sticking our dick into the lowlands is going to do very little for preparing for shit.
I am very dearly wanting a fcuk big wall right now to our south east.
No. That's not what is going to happen. The specific King of the TH who secured the vassalage of the Xoh and the TS personally is going to use that to make a personal power play. That might mean independence, it might be a new more centralized Persia- but it's definitely not necessarily going to mean status quo.
... If you think we're a super nation I have a bridge to sell you. I specifically stated the Eastern lowlands (newsflash, it is) and the Xoh were capable of fighting us and vice versa centuries ago when we both had far worse logistics. Needless to say AN also mentioned the risk of TH intercession to end the fighting. They might not be able to hold land this far out but they sure as hell can project power quite far- they never would have vassalized the TS and the Xoh if they were at the end of their logistical chain.
It's no less defensible than steppe. I seriously can't believe people are claiming that nomadic steppe land is more defensible than some of the closer parts of the lowlands. Especially since we're pretty damn good at fortifying and holding land. Far better than the Xoh, the TS, and the HK.
When did we say they took over the whole low lands? We said it's their goal and they'll use it to force us into submission like they did the Thunder Speakers and Xoh. The ETH ruined our power balance that lead us stay in our isolation in relative peace bar the doom events. Our statements were that the lowlands will either fall to a outside civ like the ETH who'll force us into submission or we use it to force peace to fight off ambitious civs that come around.
I think they are really postulating that the ETH will be distracted fighting off his other ETH neighbors.
The original statement that you responded to was about them taking all the land and then fucking us with it, but they have not conquered the lands only the east half, are not involved in the war really, the war right now doesn't even get a lot of defensive bonuses because their taking place on the fringe instead of our forests
If we do take the lowlands, we need to be able to take all of it at once, in a major push. Then fortify it extensively to hold it
Because I'm thinking in terms of centuries. They've only held the entirety of the eastern Lowlands for maybe a decade or two where they're liable to consolidating/plotting against their rivals. 'Hey guys, they stopped their spree of conquest at a third of the region! False alarm' is just stupid. They've just got their foot in the door, saying they haven't actually started shit yet is proof I'm fear mongering is beyond stupid.
Yeah, that is pretty ridiculous.
Hah. It'll be tens of turns before we can do that.
@Academia Nut please give us confused immigrants/new citizens who are learning that the government actually can care about them and be a force for good
Because the defense are where our forces do best, the fact were bashing the fuck out of the TS pretty much means were not in actual danger, nevermind that Siegecraft isn't a thing in this era and we have super walls, I don't see where this danger is coming in, Centuries will cement our power even more, and were getting close ties to the HK (tho heredity will be the best for that, so we won't be absorbing them with any ease without it but we can ignore that so w/e) who own the west Lowlands and their helping us
Which is why the Greeks were so successful.
What Karugus is getting at is that we are beating on the TS. And only the TS right now.
You say that but this reminds me so strongly of the Dead Priests situation right before they went on a MAJOR back foot. Only this time Were involved instead of the TH and HK
That I can agree with. But I also think claiming the independants once we do that is potentially viable if we're doing it in defensive policy. We just need to show up and show the flag so to speak while playing up our rep and devoting our manpower and resources to a massive series of fortifications.
Look. How about I ignore everything you say and you call me a fear monger?
The Stallions were Pro-Reform. In that they wanted to reform our shitty overly complex tax system that we tried to cram into the people despite the fact that it hadn't be working for generations.
Well we have zero indication of them having siegecraft, but i am sure you can prove it to me, All of them getting involved might be bad, but there is a threat of them breaking apart on their side, so if we can survive long enough they take care of themselves
I really don't want to extend and claim land we can't easily defend.
Every single city of theirs is fortified. Even if they don't have siegecraft, they're likely to stumble upon it sooner rather than later in some way shape or form. Competitive city states kinda tend to fight each other as competition escalates. In order to fight/conquer/sack each other they need to find a way through that hard shell into the juicy center.
Which then plays into our favor, since they are under the threat of breaking apart and being able to break open the cities walls that prevent them from fighting eachother will help us
...and this has managed generate the highest population and the most stable.
No, that is literally everyone else. The People are running a breeding program for people that are the direct opposite.
Like cancer... ignoring the problem is the single best way to get it to go away after all!
But we can literally throw a double main fortification+ main watchtower down the turn we get it. As far as we know the only major fortification in the Lowlands is the Xoh's walls- because no one wants the tributaries feeling safe enough they feel they don't need to send tribute. We can completely revolutionize warfare in the Lowlands by emphasizing taking and holding land over simply claiming tribute. Us eating the Lowlands in small, heavily fortified bites, is entirely possible.
