Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
@Academia Nut made a statement previously about "special effects" if Stability is at 3 from the start to the end of a turn. No temporary drops even if its made up in the mid-turn. No raising it during the turn. Start high, end high.
That's why we're setting a precedent here. If it scores a Honor value or evolves Humility(personally thats an evolution), then it gives the context.
That's why this is creating the concept of a conflict of interest, once Magwyna passes on and her son continues working as Clerk Chief, people will be able to see for themselves that he remains a perfectly good candidate.
That's why both sides have been talking past each other:
Magwyna supports her son:
-Shamans - Naturally, he really is a genius
-Clerks - Naturally, he really is a genius
-Council members - Naturally, he really is a genius
-Stallions - Naturally, he is her son and he actually has a shot at it.
-Local Chiefs - Naturally, he is her son and he actually has a shot at it.
-Common People - Well, the chiefs always do this anyway.
Magwyna does not support her son and he loses:
-Shamans - What, he really is a genius
-Clerks - What, he really is a genius
-Council members - Maybe he has some other issues? We'll keep him as Clerk Chief for one generation and see if they show up.
-Stallions - What the fuck? She really means it when she doesn't want to give power to her family?!
-Local Chiefs - Maybe he has some other issues? Must have some scandal, you'll see
-Common People - Well, this IS how government is supposed to work. Damned out of touch chiefs, takes someone from a common background to do whats right.
Magwyna does not support her son and he wins:
-Shamans - He really is a genius
-Clerks - He really is a genius
-Council members - Maybe he has some other issues? Lets try him out anyway, the proof is in the pudding.
-Stallions - What the fuck? She really means it when she doesn't want to give power to her family?!
-Local Chiefs - Aww shit, this is going to make electing my son so much harder.
-Common People - Well, this IS how government is supposed to work. Damned out of touch chiefs, takes someone from a common background to do whats right.
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BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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This does not answer my question veeks. Where are you getting your basis that a drop in Legitimacy also pulls down Stability with it? Even if Legitimacy could drop to 2, could Stability not stay at 3?
I like the outcomes though. The Stallion responses are hilarious. For that you get a funny.
VoidZero
Passing Flan 布丁魔王
- Location
- Anywhere but RL
Personally the inability for the hero to keep it in his pants is THE downside to elect him. If he is already making babies with his mom's wifes, then it's not a stretch to think his tendencies will escalate to other people's wifes. Hero mom already have this concern and I'm completely against the guy from becoming king.
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
I mean him getting it on with his mom's wives isn't that big a deal... I mean His mom is straight, the wives are purely political so who cares? His mom certainly doesn't
Yeah, that's where I see the rub in this argument. Academia Nut has specifically said that Magwyna not speaking up for her son would be viewed as her seeing some horrible secret trait he has, not that she'd explain her decision to anyone else in context of trying to avoid hereditary rule or conflict of interest.
There is no real chance for a 'positive' precedent to be set or trait to be earned if people just assume her son is a secretly a creep. And in fact the reason Magwyna would not articulate any ideas about condemning her son 'on principle' is that it would be viewed as an abhorrent act by our society. It's just way too out of context as a reasoning our people would value.
I hate to make the comparison, but reaching for this feels like reaching for 'fair' taxes, it's a noble sentiment taken way too far to the point it just ignores the reality of the situation. Any ideology taken too far blindly can be problematic.
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maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
What happend to you can't say no to an admin hero?
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
There are a lot of reasons I can sorta accept but the hero getting "lucky" a lot is not one, I mean really guys? Seriously? Were not the moral police, make a logical choice not a ridiculous one >.>
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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- Lickwidget
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I'm actually contemplating that on a Diplo crit he may solve our Marcher problem by marrying Attrikwyn's daughter or something.
That'd give me giggle fits for days.
ConfusedPotato
Unverified Verifier
- Location
- Australia
[X] Send an envoy to request the Thunder Speakers rein in youths (-2 Diplomacy, chance of TS king actually complying, small chance of triggering war)
[X] Support son (chance of -1 Legitimacy, heir becomes Yehlmyn [Mediocre Martial, Good Diplomacy, Heroic Admin])
[X] Support son (chance of -1 Legitimacy, heir becomes Yehlmyn [Mediocre Martial, Good Diplomacy, Heroic Admin])
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
Or just knock her up >.> boom problem solved ^.^
Edit:
I shipped the parents, I ship the children!
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maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
Those who knew her stood for her. In here you're asking her to deny him that which was essential for her own admittance to chiefdome
More fearmongering. Keeping quiet is now a deliberate smear campaign.
Oh and now you reduce it to personal insults as well, how cute.
There is that. However their initial thoughts were that he could be a great heir. His own abilities would shine forth, just like they did with his mother. She had to work against it as well and made it work with zero help from anyone. She made her own contacts, she fought on her own ballot.
That is the point of the meritocracy.
VoidZero
Passing Flan 布丁魔王
- Location
- Anywhere but RL
I can't say no to a hero true, but I do not accept assholes. This hero's weakness to flesh killed off my vote. We are now at golden age, playing safe is the word to make the most of it. Heros are only useful in time of duress and stress.
maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
Ideology is by definition blind and absolute. Otherwise it's just a sentiment.
maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
Mate every hero we ever had minus the shaman was a sex addict.
Why would it matter now?
Hell the people are still publicly promiscuous, fucking around wouldn't become taboo until the development of monogamy.
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Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
That's such a hilariously terrible reason, I can't even argue against it since its illogical.
Ideologies are meant to be absolute. People aren't meant to follow ideologies blindly, at least not good people.
There's a reason the term originated during the Great Terror of the French Revolution.
Er... that's all our heroes bar cowpox guy. Remember how we got the secret of copper?
maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
The ideologue follows the ideology.
People as you describe them would be sympathisers or neutrals.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
I see what you did there
...Ideologue is not a complimentary term. And no, one can genuinely support an ideology without being an ideologue.
Definition of IDEOLOGUE
To be clear, I support a meritocracy and oppose hereditary rule. I do not blindly support meritocracy and oppose hereditary rule when such a gesture is very impractical.
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Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
"Girls, how would you feel like us adding a man to the mix?"
Speaking of, since our Mysticism represents our amount of (free) shamans and our shamans have an above average rate of queerness, does that mean that we are literally overflowing with gay right now? Because that would be kinda wonderful.
[X] Remain quiet (Next king is probably standard)
And why do I prefer remaining quiet?
- I'd like to keep our 3 Stability if at all possible, because a Golden Age like that is very delicious looking.
- I am not sure we can keep up our record of having all Admin Heroes in same-sex marriages right now, and you know how delusional I can get when my desires are just out of reach.
- "[ ] Give him her blessing to pursue his birthright"