Warlike civilizations fight, causing them to be even more warlike, trapping them in a vicious cycle of war until one of them come up on top.

Also, the highlanders might be in a civil war again. We could send in a trade expedition to help with their Law megaproject if it look safe enough.
Well, once you develop a warrior culture, to justify away the Stability losses of protracted war, you lock yourself into more wars so that you can win glory or win slaves.
Every time we think we're finally getting somewhere shitty rolls screw us over, this is getting really annoying.
Kind of the fun of the whole thing really.
And this event is merely annoying more than threatening.
Apparently, well dressed stones are called ashlar? @Academia Nut ?
I just had the mental image of a rock in a butler outfit.
While there will be overflow, other settlements might get it instead of the stallion tribes.
Which other settlements however?
Sacred Forest, Valleyhome and Redshore are already fully tracked.

While i agree with the method, we can't be sure the dice wouldn't screw with us. Like if someone decides to drink from a copper container, mentioned it tasted funny then died for any reason; our belief will be even more ingrained.

So maybe hold off on that till we rolled a good shaman king? None hero version as it's too much to hope for.
Observance needs time to trigger a counter.
AN already told us how to remove it back in the ST's time.

Facts(archive trawl will not be done this time, it's an extraordinarily shitty day):
-The Spirit Talkers could have removed the negative superstitions, but were unwilling to take the hits to remove them.
-The Spirit Talkers had a trait which helped with removing the negative superstitions.
--This trait is not a Spiritual Trait because we know their Spiritual Traits(Sacred War, Honorable Death, Observation)
-The Spirit Talkers were obsessively concerned with maintaining maximum Stability and Centralization at all times.
-The Spirit Talkers obsessively used Study actions to try to solve an unspecified farming problem.
--The Thunder Speakers, as far as we can tell, did not face an agricultural problem despite using the same land, with zero farming experience.

Theory:
-Removing a Superstition requires eating the Stability hits from the actions they oppose. After taking these actions enough and more importantly succeeding, the superstition will go away, as the negative had been proven. Failing at these actions will ingrain the superstition further.
-The Spirit Talkers developed a superstition regarding their Farms during the second drought. This led them to spam Study actions to try to "logic" their way out of the superstition, refusing to do the Stability loss action, because that's totally a nega-SVapproach.


I think they would not and that this fuss is specifically because of her being:
1. Artisan
2. Female
because of all the times AN told us we have some issues along those cultural lines. Thinking that mere -1 stability will cause them to fuck off is naive, and RO may well not work within March.
While the first part has little basis(remember, in the update itself, once her talent was noticed, the chiefs, the old, male, noble chiefs, pushed for her to go onto the chief training track, opposed by only the Stallions and the other disconnected provinces to the north who don't see whats so awesome about this other than validating their belief that the administration is out of touch with the people, who obviously are all like them).

Restore Order works on our Stability score. Either our Stability does not reflect the March Stability, and Grand Sacrifice won't matter, or our Stability does reflect March Stability and Restore Order is an option.

This is an arbitrary diversion.
Just saying, this is actually pretty much average for us now. Assuming the current bandwagon, this event means we're losing a grand total of... 1 econ and a chance pf 1 stability. We were pretty sure Baby Boom was ending soon anyway, which will sadly put our efforts way back, but that was a loss we were expecting to happen a few turns ago.

We definitely need a new province next turn, it gives us +1 actions. Either that or switch to Policy: Expansion and let the provinces expand and provide us with the stats we need to spend on everything we want.

@Umi-san
After mathing things out a little (And because AN fixed our econ stat and gave us 1 more to 6(+1)), as long as the copper price reduction is above "tiny" (~10%), I'll be going for [Main] New Settlement- Eastern Hills and [Main] Grand Dam. We'll be at 6 econ at the start of next turn, which is high enough that the provinces are willing to spend up to 5 econ. Thanks to the copper decreasing econ costs we should be able to safely do the Dam next turn, and with the heroic+symphony bonuses it's got a strong chance of finishing that turn as well. It drops our econ a bit low (to 2 worst case, likely 3 due to Stewards) but that's not a problem for Policy:Expansion. Expansion is good for more than just making provinces- it's the fastest at growing econ and it makes more forests.

It costs us an action every time we switch policy (unless we are on a very resource-hungry policy and run out or get attacked) so we might as well get what we can out of this one. I'm a little worried about the 3x megaprojects making megaprojects a new standard, but switching away from them while at a relatively low econ shouldn't cause many problems, and with a heroic admin we should be able to make it back up fairly quickly.

It's noted that our hero is young, so there's a chance that she'll last 3 turns which would be really nice. We can dedicate her first turn to the megaproject and guarantee that she leaves behind a legacy (the Dam is a project which modifies the landscape to a much more obvious degree than any other besides Sacred Forest) and then we can use her heroic diplomacy to good effect with a Salt Gift and some trade missions.
I can get behind this Dam plan.
The Grand Sacrifice vs New Trails for me comes down to Marywyna only being elected heir. If we take New Trails when she's Queen then it's likely to be superior due to her skill, where as her taking Grand Sacrifice is unlikely to be improved.
Hmm, that's a fair point.
Actually, if we opened a new province next turn, we'd be able to do a Double Main New Trails with a Heroic Diplomat/Administrator the turn after.
She's noted to be Young, so we could potentially get 3 turns of her.
 
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They argued against heros plenty of time before. Hell they denied two heros the chance of kingship, why nota third ?

My vote for her is simple - she is a hero I like, and whose values I can get behind.
Being a hero does not mean being a good person, or even good for the development of the People.

Were Attrikwyn a hero, I still would have voted against him.
 
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[X] Random Construction tech upgrade
[X] Magwyna (-1 Stability, other effects, [Poor Martial, Heroic Admin and Diplo])
[X] Grand Sacrifice (-3 Econ, +2 Stability)
[X] Everyone can come on in! (-4 Stability, chance of further loss, +11-15 Econ)


This is Dangerous, but it might get us more delicious tech.
Largely motivated by tech shinies instead of Econ boost, so lower Refugee acceptance isn't really a negative for me.
 
Well, once you develop a warrior culture, to justify away the Stability losses of protracted war, you lock yourself into more wars so that you can win glory or win slaves.

Kind of the fun of the whole thing really.
And this event is merely annoying more than threatening.

I just had the mental image of a rock in a butler outfit.

Which other settlements however?
Sacred Forest, Valleyhome and Redshore are already fully tracked.


Observance needs time to trigger a counter.
AN already told us how to remove it back in the ST's time.

Facts(archive trawl will not be done this time, it's an extraordinarily shitty day):
-The Spirit Talkers could have removed the negative superstitions, but were unwilling to take the hits to remove them.
-The Spirit Talkers had a trait which helped with removing the negative superstitions.
--This trait is not a Spiritual Trait because we know their Spiritual Traits(Sacred War, Honorable Death, Observation)
-The Spirit Talkers were obsessively concerned with maintaining maximum Stability and Centralization at all times.
-The Spirit Talkers obsessively used Study actions to try to solve an unspecified farming problem.
--The Thunder Speakers, as far as we can tell, did not face an agricultural problem despite using the same land, with zero farming experience.

Theory:
-Removing a Superstition requires eating the Stability hits from the actions they oppose. After taking these actions enough and more importantly succeeding, the superstition will go away, as the negative had been proven. Failing at these actions will ingrain the superstition further.
-The Spirit Talkers developed a superstition regarding their Farms during the second drought. This led them to spam Study actions to try to "logic" their way out of the superstition, refusing to do the Stability loss action, because that's totally a nega-SVapproach.



While the first part has little basis(remember, in the update itself, once her talent was noticed, the chiefs, the old, male, noble chiefs, pushed for her to go onto the chief training track, opposed by only the Stallions and the other disconnected provinces to the north who don't see whats so awesome about this other than validating their belief that the administration is out of touch with the people, who obviously are all like them).

Restore Order works on our Stability score. Either our Stability does not reflect the March Stability, and Grand Sacrifice won't matter, or our Stability does reflect March Stability and Restore Order is an option.

This is an arbitrary diversion.

I can get behind this Dam plan.

Hmm, that's a fair point.
Actually, if we opened a new province next turn, we'd be able to do a Double Main New Trails with a Heroic Diplomat/Administrator the turn after.
She's noted to be Young, so we could potentially get 3 turns of her.
Stonepen and possibly Northshore. I'm not sure if Northshore will count towards the Marches as they are separate from them.
 
Stonepen and possibly Northshore. I'm not sure if Northshore will count towards the Marches as they are separate from them.
However, part of the problem is that Stonepen and Northshoreare not sufficiently Roaded.

So it will help.

Its a very strange thought to realize that under a Heroic Administrator an unkicked Dam is actually one of the cheaper ways to raise Stability...

Dam costs 4-7 Econ and actions. Copper reduces the cost of megaprojects. If the cost goes to 3-5 it has a better ratio than Festival already.

If I'm reading this right, she could one turn it with Provinces supporting. Unkicked.
 
This is Dangerous, but it might get us more delicious tech.
Largely motivated by tech shinies instead of Econ boost, so lower Refugee acceptance isn't really a negative for me.
It's dangerous in other ways though. Around Econ 12 the stat turned yellow, thus there is a danger in going too high and with our current economy score and the sheer boost from the refugee's it's likely to go over.

Also am I not remembering correctly, but has the Greater Good ever activated yet? As I don't recall it happening.
 
However, part of the problem is that Stonepen and Northshoreare not sufficiently Roaded.

So it will help.

Its a very strange thought to realize that under a Heroic Administrator an unkicked Dam is actually one of the cheaper ways to raise Stability...

Dam costs 4-7 Econ and actions. Copper reduces the cost of megaprojects. If the cost goes to 3-5 it has a better ratio than Festival already.

If I'm reading this right, she could one turn it with Provinces supporting. Unkicked.
Alrighty, you've convinced me.

[X] Random Admin tech upgrade
[X] Magwyna (-1 Stability, other effects, [Poor Martial, Heroic Admin and Diplo])
[X] New Trails (-1 Econ, +1 Diplo, +1 Centralization, other effects)
[X] Take in some (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
 
This idiot belief came from:

Its that Con at work. 'Star Fall=Star Plague' triggered only no Star Fall happened. So they decided it was the mine at fault as that was what changed. This can happen again. New plague... no Star Fall... no metal... what other new thing gets the blame. Logically a new plague could get blamed on a Wonder next. Wouldn't that be fun?
Did you not see my previous post on the subject or did you just not care?

Observance is not the cause. People's natural inclination to blame whatever is convenient is the cause. The HK have a similar problem blaming their new law, and I'm fairly sure they dont have our observance trait.

But if that means nothing to you, have this old thing instead!
In consultation with the elders, the High Chief had declared that the outbreak had obviously been caused by disturbing the dead - the timing was all wrong to have come from either the new settlers or the tolerance of behaviours some people didn't like. Of course, sometimes you had a move a body, so a new punishment scheme was devised. For most deaths, family or immediately would still be expected to quickly move and bury the dead with proper honours, but during plagues or if for some reason an old burial was disinterred those who had committed crimes not worthy of death but more significant that mere slap on the wrist corrective measures would be given a choice: they could move the dead and then suffer isolation until judged physically and spiritually clean, or they could suffer death.

Last time we blamed the dead instead of metal. It created a whole new caste and i guarantee you that we still avoid dead bodies. People find blame for things, and the new copper mine was convenient.

Now you and others are blaming our convenient new(ish) trait, and grew cycle continues. Even though there's no proof and only idle speculation that everybody seems inclined to accept without criticism.

4) Repeat until Observance has been convinced.
*squints suspiciously*

I think you're saying observance is the solution rather than the problem, but it's hard to tell.
 
It's dangerous in other ways though. Around Econ 12 the stat turned yellow, thus there is a danger in going too high and with our current economy score and the sheer boost from the refugee's it's likely to go over.

Also am I not remembering correctly, but has the Greater Good ever activated yet? As I don't recall it happening.

At least once during the tax crises.
 
[X] Free holy site expansion (+2 Mysticism)
[X] Magwyna (-1 Stability, other effects, [Poor Martial, Heroic Admin and Diplo])
[X] Grand Sacrifice (-3 Econ, +2 Stability)
[X] Take in some (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
 
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Вы забываете , что героический администратор не может критически лажануть при админ роле. У нас нет шансов на -4 стабильности. You forget that the heroic administrator can not critically cope with the admin role. We do not stand a chance of -4 stability.
 
[X] Reassure the People of their safety and prosperity (+1 Stability)
[X] Magwyna (-1 Stability, other effects, [Poor Martial, Heroic Admin and Diplo])
[X] Grand Sacrifice (-3 Econ, +2 Stability)
[X] Everyone can come on in! (-4 Stability, chance of further loss, +11-15 Econ, further effects, chance of over crowding, Upper Valleyhome attains True City status)

Okay, this is Plan Administratum. Quite frankly, I care very little about the "Fight the Patriarchy" nonsense, but I do care about getting rid of any prejudice against metal. Therefore, my choice of leader is pretty obvious. More, I really want to get a proper city as soon as possible, since those are centers of production and advancement for a culture. While normally I wouldn't be willing to take the risk with the Stability loss, with us gaining a new Admin leader, the risks ought to be minimal. Grand Sacrifice and Stability should ensure that we're on our feet at the end of the turn.
 
Observance is not the cause. People's natural inclination to blame whatever is convenient is the cause. The HK have a similar problem blaming their new law, and I'm fairly sure they dont have our observance trait.
Incidentally, as many people dealing with legal disputes and particularly contract law(which, based on the HK's stated traits of Order Above All, Poverty as Sin and Bloodline based leadership, is going to be as important to them as Taxes are to us) will attest, The Law clearly has evil spirits involved.

*squints suspiciously*

I think you're saying observance is the solution rather than the problem, but it's hard to tell.
To quote the Observance trait again:
Observance
Through careful study of the world, the will and workings of gods and spirits can be determined and understood.
Pros: Improved use of study actions
Cons: I know it worked this one time...

This means:
-People are more likely to figure things out.
-People are more likely to figure things out wrong.
-People are more likely to change their minds when their superstition is sufficiently disproved.

Previously with our Dead taboo, we had the option to blame nothing, eating a Stability hit as a result.
Previously with the Droughts and Comet, we had the option to sacrifice nothing, taking a Stability hit as a result.

What Observance does is make people more likely to Observe and believe in patterns, good and bad.

In other words? It removed the option to shrug and say "Eh, shit happens", because we culturally no longer believe in "Shit happens", but rather would observe that "shit happens a few hours after you eat", that "shit happens a lot more often if you eat more vegetables" and that "shit happens every morning because of that damned bird chirping".
The tendency was already present, but amplified.
 
[X] Random Admin tech upgrade
[X] Magwyna (-1 Stability, other effects, [Poor Martial, Heroic Admin and Diplo])
[X] Study Health (-1 Econ, greater chance of new discoveries)
[X] Take in some (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
 
To those who mention our ongoing struggle for gender equality. What you folks desire is flat out impossible until you invent home appliances and modern rifles . So long as taking care of the house requires slave like levels of labour, and the constant making of babies is of utmost importance, and war and most forms of work require lots of muscle and endurance; women will never have the same amount of direct influence and power that men do.
 
Guys, has anyone considered that Magwyna's "other effects" could be because we are yet again snubbing the Stallions?
Not to mention that she's considered biased with regards to the problem and will thus make solving it harder?
 
Guys, has anyone considered that Magwyna's "other effects" could be because we are yet again snubbing the Stallions?
Not to mention that she's considered biased with regards to the problem and will thus make solving it harder?
I want to build a proper city. She has Admin bonuses. Additionally, I actually don't want to keep our Stability too high.

#RemembertheSpiritTalkers
 
[X] Random Admin tech upgrade
[X] Magwyna (-1 Stability, other effects, [Poor Martial, Heroic Admin and Diplo])
[X] New Trails (-1 Econ, +1 Diplo, +1 Centralization, other effects)
[X] Take in some (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
 
[X] Random Construction tech upgrade
[X] Magwyna (-1 Stability, other effects, [Poor Martial, Heroic Admin and Diplo])
[X] New Trails (-1 Econ, +1 Diplo, +1 Centralization, other effects)
[X] Take in some (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)

So, do we know anything about the southern hill people?
Or is this our first, official contact?
Also, I would like to find out what True City status is.
 
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