Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
- Location
- Panama City
Vote Tally : Paths of Civilization | Page 754 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.4
[1] Kick the garden.
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Main
[16][Main] More Blackbirds
[7][Main] Expand Warriors
[5][Main] New Settlement - Eastern Hills
[1][Main] Mega project - The Garden
[1][Main] Expand Blackbirds
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Secondary
[18][Secondary] Establish Annual Festival
[16][Secondary] Study Metal
[6][Secondary] Restore Order x2
[5][Secondary] Restore Order
[3][Secondary] Expand Annual Festival
[3][Secondary] New Trails
[2][Secondary] Build Wall - Eastern Hills
[2][Secondary] Grand Sacrifice
[1][Secondary] Mega project - The Garden x2
[1][Secondary] More Blackbirds
Total No. of Voters: 30
Seems the compromise vote is taking off. Heh, I know people rail at bandwagons, but reasoned discussion that gets a compromise everyone can live with is always awesome
##### NetTally 1.7.4
[1] Kick the garden.
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Main
[16][Main] More Blackbirds
[7][Main] Expand Warriors
[5][Main] New Settlement - Eastern Hills
[1][Main] Mega project - The Garden
[1][Main] Expand Blackbirds
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Secondary
[18][Secondary] Establish Annual Festival
[16][Secondary] Study Metal
[6][Secondary] Restore Order x2
[5][Secondary] Restore Order
[3][Secondary] Expand Annual Festival
[3][Secondary] New Trails
[2][Secondary] Build Wall - Eastern Hills
[2][Secondary] Grand Sacrifice
[1][Secondary] Mega project - The Garden x2
[1][Secondary] More Blackbirds
Total No. of Voters: 30
Seems the compromise vote is taking off. Heh, I know people rail at bandwagons, but reasoned discussion that gets a compromise everyone can live with is always awesome
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
This is a little early of me but what would you guys think of us Poking the DP next time we get actions.
Something like [Secondary]War mission - DP but use the Main and other Secondary for something else. Perhaps that East Hills settlement?
Something like [Secondary]War mission - DP but use the Main and other Secondary for something else. Perhaps that East Hills settlement?
- Location
- Australia
Thank God for Greater Good! It'll let us bring in large numbers of immigrants, make a profit, and not lose stability over it!
[X][Main] Grand Sacrifice
[X][Secondary] Study Metal
[X][Secondary] More Blackbirds
Grand Sacrifice gives 1 Stability per 1.5 Econ when does as a main. It's not as economical as Establish Annual Festival, but I'm pretty sure there's a limit to how many times we can do the latter. More importantly Grand Sacrifice lowers classism, which is starting to become a big problem in our society as the old and powerful use their power to keep their lessers down. Doing Grand Sacrifice as a Main also takes us to Stability 1, which is a decent buffer and means we won't have to deal with this kind of thing again next turn.
[X][Main] Grand Sacrifice
[X][Secondary] Study Metal
[X][Secondary] More Blackbirds
Grand Sacrifice gives 1 Stability per 1.5 Econ when does as a main. It's not as economical as Establish Annual Festival, but I'm pretty sure there's a limit to how many times we can do the latter. More importantly Grand Sacrifice lowers classism, which is starting to become a big problem in our society as the old and powerful use their power to keep their lessers down. Doing Grand Sacrifice as a Main also takes us to Stability 1, which is a decent buffer and means we won't have to deal with this kind of thing again next turn.
- Location
- Illinois
There seems to be little reason to do so, honestly. They aren't an immediate threat, and they are already being hemmed in by the TH and Highlanders.
- Location
- Panama City
Grand Sacrifice is strictly worse than festivals as a secondary, and your plan will leave us at -1 econ, immediately tanking the stability you bought.
- Location
- Third planet from the star named Sol
- Pronouns
- He/They
[X] [Main] Expand Warriors
[X] [Secondary] Study Metal
[X] [Secondary] Expand Annual Festival
[X] [Secondary] Study Metal
[X] [Secondary] Expand Annual Festival
Well, new province was the idea to take advantage much faster
Oh ok. That's informative
Look at it another way:
-We can build up to 6 Economy before our provinces start spending it. That's good, but it means we cannot build up a huge reserve for megaprojects.
-We can use Grand Sacrifice to 'press' excess Economy into Stability coins.
-We can then Kick Megaprojects freely with Stability, or just absorb refugees with it at a later time for similar effect.
Tactical flexibility.
Oh and we can use it to fuck over the DPs if we're feeling petty. Take in a huge swath of refugees then just set the economy on fire while flipping them off.
Blackbirds intent is to solve the internal security issue. We'd still need to expand warriors later, but the objective is to put the infrastructure in place to provide oversight.
Ok, now I wish I fully caught up first, because this changes the priorities.
Actions this turn help determine solutions for property law:
-Enforce Authority - Lays down the law from King. Centralize distribution of land further, which in turn makes the current noblity advantaged.
-Establish Annual Festival - Teaches new refugees our ways. Mildly reinforces that this is the way it's always been done, so it should be fine.
-Grand Sacrifice - Solves the problem through redistribution of wealth. If the chief families are getting too much benefits, then they should burn it all so they're all equal again.
-More Blackbirds - Blackbird supervision unlocked on a main. With an excess, we can set Blackbirds to keeping eyes and ears open for misbehaviors.
-New Settlement - Potentially makes the property law implementation more difficult, by adding a whole bunch of new property.
-Proclaim Glory - Done as main, uses propaganda to spread the message that favoring your friends and family is wrong. Public shaming strategy.
-Restoration of Order - Identify the corrupt and then have them be publically punished(our usual punishment is to sentence them to half exile duty, where they'd be dragged off by the warriors and made to haul rubbish until they repent). Synergy with Blackbirds in that we are more likely to grab only the right people.
So, vote changed:
[x][Main] More Blackbirds
[x][Secondary] Restore Order
[x][Secondary] Restore Order x2
I want a more lasting solution rather than just the numbers, and the event trigger is important.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Yeah. I'm just thinking "I've reduced a lot of the stress in my life. I've gotten rid of a lot of things. The light was turned on and a lot of the cockroaches started spinning. I swept them out the door. And sometimes you just have to throw things out because they carry a certain energy." - Wesley Snipes
Why not make their day even worse.
Imagine the salt in Nega SV if we do it.
In the general case, as opposed to stability emergencies, I'd rather be using Restore Order.
- Location
- Panama City
Restore Order is a military action, which doesn't do much to stem corruption.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Well. We can't.
Restore order can only be used below 0 Stability as far as I know so Grand Sacrifice is more flexible in it's usage area.
zamin
The Watcher in the Dark
Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of "zamin over-analyses everything". Today, we have a special "I got to work early and my boss hasn't arrived yet so I'm surfing the net" episode.
TLDR: We flubbed our innovation roll, so our stability's dropped and people are unhappy because they think that the king isn't doing his job.
Also, the line about how our elders and clan heads are trying to encourage people made me laugh. "Don't worry. If you work hard and do your best, one day you too may be able to screw over all your neighbors for personal gain."
Well, at least something's going well. A bit annoyed that the DPs haven't collapsed, but I suppose it was a long shot anyway.
-----------------------------------------
STATS:
Looks like our Economy didn't actually go as high as expected, which is a bit sad. Still, at least we have a steady income for the next few turns.
Stability, on the other hand, has dropped again. If only we had a way to raise it that wasn't dependent on a dice roll, eh?
Everything else seems about the same.
--------------------------------------
CHOICES:
I'd like to highlight a few projects in particular.
First, this thing:
I take back everything bad I ever said about The Greater Good. This one action alone is worth all the trouble of absorbing that trait. The ability to sacrifice Economy to gain Stability is exactly what we need to deal with LoO's negative effects. And that note about human sacrifice implies that the DPs have been relying on this to keep themselves stable for a while now.
Also, please note this part. If I'm reading it correctly, we'll be gaining 3 Economy per turn for about 4 turns from our Baby Boom. That might change depending on our actions, but a guaranteed free 3 Econ per turn is nothing to scoff at.
One thing I really want to get this turn is this action. We've been putting off metal for a while now, and while it's always been for good reasons, I think that it's time we beelined metal.
Now, as for the Stability issue, I'm seeing people split between "Grand Sacrifice", "More Blackbirds+Restore Order" and "Festivals". Note that we have only 3 Economy right now, so if we main Grand Sacrifice we won't be able to pick any more Econ consuming actions without risking dropping below 0, which would lower our Stability anyway.
As for the "Blackbirds+Order", I'm honestly kinda tempted. Having more Blackbirds will boost our Martial a bit and Restore Order is a bit risky but helps to root out corruption. It's still a bit of a gamble, but if we double down on RO we'd lower the chance of failure.
On the other hand, Festivals is guaranteed to raise Stability for a lower cost compared to Grand Sacrifice, which lets us take other econ consuming actions this turn. However, we can only use it a few more times, so a part of me does kinda want to save it as an emergency "Stability NOW" button.
... after glancing through the thread, we seem to have a compromise vote that's gaining steam:
[x][Main] More Blackbirds
[X] [Secondary] Study Metal
[X] [Secondary] Establish Annual Festival
I'm not 100% happy about this, but it does allow us to:
a) Raise Martial and get more spies/police forces
b) Try to raise our tech and properly gain metal working
c) Settle our stability issues without burning too much Econ
EDIT:
New
[x][Main] More Blackbirds
[x][Secondary] Restore Order
[x][Secondary] Restore Order x2
TLDR: We flubbed our innovation roll, so our stability's dropped and people are unhappy because they think that the king isn't doing his job.
Also, the line about how our elders and clan heads are trying to encourage people made me laugh. "Don't worry. If you work hard and do your best, one day you too may be able to screw over all your neighbors for personal gain."
Well, at least something's going well. A bit annoyed that the DPs haven't collapsed, but I suppose it was a long shot anyway.
-----------------------------------------
STATS:
General
Diplomacy 6
Economy 2 (+6)
Martial 6 (+1)
Stability
Stability 0 (neutral)
Legitimacy 3 (maxed)
Organizational
Centralization 4
Hierarchy 7
Cultural
Art 5
Mysticism 3
Prestige 4
Diplomacy 6
Economy 2 (+6)
Martial 6 (+1)
Stability
Stability 0 (neutral)
Legitimacy 3 (maxed)
Organizational
Centralization 4
Hierarchy 7
Cultural
Art 5
Mysticism 3
Prestige 4
General
Diplomacy 6
Economy 3 (+3)
Martial 7
Stability
Stability -1 (anxious)
Legitimacy 3 (maxed)
Organizational
Centralization 4
Hierarchy 7
Cultural
Art 5
Mysticism 3
Prestige 4
Diplomacy 6
Economy 3 (+3)
Martial 7
Stability
Stability -1 (anxious)
Legitimacy 3 (maxed)
Organizational
Centralization 4
Hierarchy 7
Cultural
Art 5
Mysticism 3
Prestige 4
Looks like our Economy didn't actually go as high as expected, which is a bit sad. Still, at least we have a steady income for the next few turns.
Stability, on the other hand, has dropped again. If only we had a way to raise it that wasn't dependent on a dice roll, eh?
Everything else seems about the same.
--------------------------------------
CHOICES:
Art Patronage - Wealth of the first and second kind can be used to create wealth of the third kind to the benefit of all
* S: -1 Econ, +2 Art
* M: -2 Econ, +3 Art, +1 Prestige, potential innovations
Black Soil - Production is now regular and huge amounts of trash are turned to black soil every year, but there's always room for more production [Shapers] [King]
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Econ next turn, additional effects
* M: +1 Econ, additional effects
* used 2 times
Build Chariots - Once the domain of rich nomad chieftains, there is now enough copper to make construction of this new design practical for the People and deployable on a large scale. Used: 0 times
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Martial
*M: -2 Econ, +3 Martial, other effects
Build Wall - Long experience with retaining walls has lead to the idea of a settlement wall for protection (Redshore and Stonepen capitals walled)
* S: -1 Econ, minor walls
* M: -1 Econ, major walls
Enforce Authority - The power of the king is not to be questioned, and the army can be used to demonstrate that
* S: -1 to 0 Stability, +1-3 Centralization
* M: -1 to 0 Stability, lower odds of Stability loss, +2-3 Centralization
* the more settlements with walls outside of the capital, particularly large walls, the less effective this action is
Establish Annual Festival - A yearly harvest festival and a planting festival brings entertainment and stability by reminding people of the good things in life, and can help teach newcomers the ways of the People, so perhaps another festival might be of use?
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Stability, chance for additional effects
* M: -1 Econ, +1 Stability, +1 Art, chance for additional effects
* Max Stability: Legitimacy - 1
Expand Economy - Encourage the growth of food producing activities such as farming, pastures, or fishing, depending on where focus is placed
* +1 Econ, potential additional effects
* 12 uses remain before requiring new territory
Expand Forests - The People have knowledge of how to regrow and repair forests, which extends to bringing them to places they have never been, with considerable effort
* S: -1 Econ, grows forest, +1 Econ next turn if in settled territory and controlled
* M: -1 Econ, grows forest, +2 Econ next turn if in settled and controlled territory
Expand Holy Sites - The current places dedicated to the spirits and wisdom have accumulated interesting objects and tellers of stories, but they could be made a bit better
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Mysticism
* M: -2 Econ, +2 Mysticism, +1 Art, potential additional effects
Expand Snail Cultivation - While now more reliably grown and harvested, the snail domestication has only managed to hold environmental changes at bay rather than increase production. More investment would increase cultivation
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Diplo
* M: -2 Econ, +2 Diplo, potential additional effects
Expand Warriors - More men can be inducted into the ranks of the warriors every year and not face major food shortfalls
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Martial
* M: -2 Econ, +2 Martial, potential additional effects
Grand Sacrifice - Communal sacrifice is a great way to bring the People together, and to also even out class distinctions. NOTE: Because the People do not use human sacrifice, the Econ costs are especially harsh. Max Stability: Legitimacy
*S: -2 Econ, +1 Stability
*M: -3 Econ, +2 Stability
More Blackbirds - Elite scouts and woodsmen, the Blackbirds are a potent force, if not exactly mainline fighters. More of them could prove useful
* S: -1 Mysticism, +1 Martial more Blackbirds
* M: -1 Econ, -1 Mysticism, +1 Martial, many more Blackbirds, additional effects
More Carrion Eaters - Keepers of sacred and profane knowledge, the Carrion Eaters thread a dangerous path but bring valuable knowledge for treating wounds and inspiring courage, greatly bolstering the morale of warriors by ensuring them that their companions are not doomed if they fall. More could prove useful.
*S: -1 Mysticism, +1 Martial, more Carrion Eaters
*M: -1 Econ, -1 Mysticism, +1 Martial, many more Carrion Eaters, additional effects
More Boats - The things are expensive but oh so useful, so having more of them will increase your capacity for trade, travel, and fishing
* S: -2 Econ, +1 Econ and +1 Diplo next turn, other potential effects
* M: -2 Econ, +1 Econ end of turn, +1 Econ and Diplo next turn, additional effects, tiny chance of innovation;
* used 3 times
New Settlement - There are a few new sites that could have new settlements placed on them: a new settlement within Redshore (can go further south), within Northshore (further to the west, inland to the north into the plains), badlands, eastern hills, northern pastures within Stonepen
* S: +1 Econ next turn, increases number of times Expand Econ can be taken
* M: +1 Econ and +1 Mysticism end of turn, increases the number of times Expand Econ can be taken
Special: Badlands settlement requires a Main action to work at all and only returns as a Secondary, but increases response time and decreases logistics for movement in and out of the badlands
Special: Main action for Eastern Hills produces a new province
New Trails - The new coastal settlement is supported mostly by boats and the expansion of the limited trails there would be of great utility
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Centralization, other effects
* M: -1 Econ, +1 Centralization, +1 Diplo, other effects
Proclaim Glory - A recent innovation from the south, by using art the King can promote people to trust his decisions
* S: -2 Art, +1 Legitimacy
* M: -3 Art, -1 Econ, +1 Legitimacy, +1 Stability, potential +1 Prestige
* Max 3 Stability; modified by Diplomacy skill
Restoration of Order - The people are uncertain, and into that uncertainty bad behaviour can flow. Send in the warriors to reassure people and root out corruption and dissent, restoring the proper function of the People. Max Stability: 0
* S: Gain -1 to 2 Stability
* M: Roll twice, take best result
* modified by Administrative skill
Sailing Mission - The new boats have proven themselves capable of exploring long distances, so what else might they discover along the shores of the sea?
* S: Potential new discoveries
* M: -1 Econ, improved odds of success
Study Forests - The holy site within the sacred forest is the repository of lore on the forests and the things within them, but could the shamans learn more?
* S: Potential new discoveries
* M: -1 Econ, improved odds of success
Study Health - What secrets of nature can be used to improve the health of the People?
* S: Potential new discoveries
* M: -1 Econ, improved odds of success
Study Metal - With intense heat certain rocks can be transformed into metal, but what exactly is going on?
* S: -1 Mysticism, chance of new insights
* M: -1 Econ, greater chance of new insights
Study Stars - What secrets do the heavens hold when you study the stars and their motions carefully? 1 Uses, 1 Uses in a Row
*S: +1 Mysticism, tiny chance of new insights
Cannot be used as a Main action
Survey Lands - Foreigners have discovered strange materials within their lands, are these materials perhaps also found within the lands of the People?
* S: Potential new discoveries
* M: -1 Econ, improved odds of success; used 1 time
Trade Mission - Sending a major caravan to another large group can bring new opportunities and find out more about the outside world
* S: -1 Diplo, additional effects depending on target, +1-2 Diplo end of of turn;
* M: -1 Diplo, -1 Econ, additional effects depending on target, +1-2 Diplo end of turn, +1-2 Diplo next turn
War Mission - You can send raiding parties against groups that have declared themselves hostile
* S: Potential loss of Martial, can prevent Econ and Diplo damage when being attacked, can damage enemy Martial and Diplo
* M: Probable loss of Martial, can prevent Econ and Diplo damage when being attacked, can damage enemy Martial, Diplo, and Econ, always has a mid-turn decision point
Reminder: 2 {S} applied to the same project = 1 {M}
Additionally: 2 Mains may have non-linear effects
Mega-Projects - Mega-Projects can require many generations to complete, take an unknown amount of time to do so, and drain Econ while active, but can produce massive benefits once complete. Once chosen, the occupy the Main Focus slot until either completed or stopped early. Early stopping once started does not refund any of the investments and increases social strife. To reduce confusion, mega-projects are not listed as part of the voting project list and must be "written-in".
The Garden - The canal has greatly expanded the People's knowledge of controlling and directing water. A smaller but more personal project has been proposed to improve Valleyhome [Stewards] [King] (3-6? action commitment, -1 Econ per action)
Great Dam - The river can run wild and dangerous when the rains come strong, but could it not be controlled by the same principles by which the water on the hills is channelled and contained, merely on a larger scale? [Stewards][King] (4-7? action commitment, -1 Econ per action)
[Stewards] special kicker: Pay 1 Stability to double the effort on a megaproject action, consuming twice the required per turn resources but advancing the job faster. If taking a second main action on a megaproject, requires additional Stability payment to double that as well.
* S: -1 Econ, +2 Art
* M: -2 Econ, +3 Art, +1 Prestige, potential innovations
Black Soil - Production is now regular and huge amounts of trash are turned to black soil every year, but there's always room for more production [Shapers] [King]
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Econ next turn, additional effects
* M: +1 Econ, additional effects
* used 2 times
Build Chariots - Once the domain of rich nomad chieftains, there is now enough copper to make construction of this new design practical for the People and deployable on a large scale. Used: 0 times
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Martial
*M: -2 Econ, +3 Martial, other effects
Build Wall - Long experience with retaining walls has lead to the idea of a settlement wall for protection (Redshore and Stonepen capitals walled)
* S: -1 Econ, minor walls
* M: -1 Econ, major walls
Enforce Authority - The power of the king is not to be questioned, and the army can be used to demonstrate that
* S: -1 to 0 Stability, +1-3 Centralization
* M: -1 to 0 Stability, lower odds of Stability loss, +2-3 Centralization
* the more settlements with walls outside of the capital, particularly large walls, the less effective this action is
Establish Annual Festival - A yearly harvest festival and a planting festival brings entertainment and stability by reminding people of the good things in life, and can help teach newcomers the ways of the People, so perhaps another festival might be of use?
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Stability, chance for additional effects
* M: -1 Econ, +1 Stability, +1 Art, chance for additional effects
* Max Stability: Legitimacy - 1
Expand Economy - Encourage the growth of food producing activities such as farming, pastures, or fishing, depending on where focus is placed
* +1 Econ, potential additional effects
* 12 uses remain before requiring new territory
Expand Forests - The People have knowledge of how to regrow and repair forests, which extends to bringing them to places they have never been, with considerable effort
* S: -1 Econ, grows forest, +1 Econ next turn if in settled territory and controlled
* M: -1 Econ, grows forest, +2 Econ next turn if in settled and controlled territory
Expand Holy Sites - The current places dedicated to the spirits and wisdom have accumulated interesting objects and tellers of stories, but they could be made a bit better
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Mysticism
* M: -2 Econ, +2 Mysticism, +1 Art, potential additional effects
Expand Snail Cultivation - While now more reliably grown and harvested, the snail domestication has only managed to hold environmental changes at bay rather than increase production. More investment would increase cultivation
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Diplo
* M: -2 Econ, +2 Diplo, potential additional effects
Expand Warriors - More men can be inducted into the ranks of the warriors every year and not face major food shortfalls
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Martial
* M: -2 Econ, +2 Martial, potential additional effects
Grand Sacrifice - Communal sacrifice is a great way to bring the People together, and to also even out class distinctions. NOTE: Because the People do not use human sacrifice, the Econ costs are especially harsh. Max Stability: Legitimacy
*S: -2 Econ, +1 Stability
*M: -3 Econ, +2 Stability
More Blackbirds - Elite scouts and woodsmen, the Blackbirds are a potent force, if not exactly mainline fighters. More of them could prove useful
* S: -1 Mysticism, +1 Martial more Blackbirds
* M: -1 Econ, -1 Mysticism, +1 Martial, many more Blackbirds, additional effects
More Carrion Eaters - Keepers of sacred and profane knowledge, the Carrion Eaters thread a dangerous path but bring valuable knowledge for treating wounds and inspiring courage, greatly bolstering the morale of warriors by ensuring them that their companions are not doomed if they fall. More could prove useful.
*S: -1 Mysticism, +1 Martial, more Carrion Eaters
*M: -1 Econ, -1 Mysticism, +1 Martial, many more Carrion Eaters, additional effects
More Boats - The things are expensive but oh so useful, so having more of them will increase your capacity for trade, travel, and fishing
* S: -2 Econ, +1 Econ and +1 Diplo next turn, other potential effects
* M: -2 Econ, +1 Econ end of turn, +1 Econ and Diplo next turn, additional effects, tiny chance of innovation;
* used 3 times
New Settlement - There are a few new sites that could have new settlements placed on them: a new settlement within Redshore (can go further south), within Northshore (further to the west, inland to the north into the plains), badlands, eastern hills, northern pastures within Stonepen
* S: +1 Econ next turn, increases number of times Expand Econ can be taken
* M: +1 Econ and +1 Mysticism end of turn, increases the number of times Expand Econ can be taken
Special: Badlands settlement requires a Main action to work at all and only returns as a Secondary, but increases response time and decreases logistics for movement in and out of the badlands
Special: Main action for Eastern Hills produces a new province
New Trails - The new coastal settlement is supported mostly by boats and the expansion of the limited trails there would be of great utility
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Centralization, other effects
* M: -1 Econ, +1 Centralization, +1 Diplo, other effects
Proclaim Glory - A recent innovation from the south, by using art the King can promote people to trust his decisions
* S: -2 Art, +1 Legitimacy
* M: -3 Art, -1 Econ, +1 Legitimacy, +1 Stability, potential +1 Prestige
* Max 3 Stability; modified by Diplomacy skill
Restoration of Order - The people are uncertain, and into that uncertainty bad behaviour can flow. Send in the warriors to reassure people and root out corruption and dissent, restoring the proper function of the People. Max Stability: 0
* S: Gain -1 to 2 Stability
* M: Roll twice, take best result
* modified by Administrative skill
Sailing Mission - The new boats have proven themselves capable of exploring long distances, so what else might they discover along the shores of the sea?
* S: Potential new discoveries
* M: -1 Econ, improved odds of success
Study Forests - The holy site within the sacred forest is the repository of lore on the forests and the things within them, but could the shamans learn more?
* S: Potential new discoveries
* M: -1 Econ, improved odds of success
Study Health - What secrets of nature can be used to improve the health of the People?
* S: Potential new discoveries
* M: -1 Econ, improved odds of success
Study Metal - With intense heat certain rocks can be transformed into metal, but what exactly is going on?
* S: -1 Mysticism, chance of new insights
* M: -1 Econ, greater chance of new insights
Study Stars - What secrets do the heavens hold when you study the stars and their motions carefully? 1 Uses, 1 Uses in a Row
*S: +1 Mysticism, tiny chance of new insights
Cannot be used as a Main action
Survey Lands - Foreigners have discovered strange materials within their lands, are these materials perhaps also found within the lands of the People?
* S: Potential new discoveries
* M: -1 Econ, improved odds of success; used 1 time
Trade Mission - Sending a major caravan to another large group can bring new opportunities and find out more about the outside world
* S: -1 Diplo, additional effects depending on target, +1-2 Diplo end of of turn;
* M: -1 Diplo, -1 Econ, additional effects depending on target, +1-2 Diplo end of turn, +1-2 Diplo next turn
War Mission - You can send raiding parties against groups that have declared themselves hostile
* S: Potential loss of Martial, can prevent Econ and Diplo damage when being attacked, can damage enemy Martial and Diplo
* M: Probable loss of Martial, can prevent Econ and Diplo damage when being attacked, can damage enemy Martial, Diplo, and Econ, always has a mid-turn decision point
Reminder: 2 {S} applied to the same project = 1 {M}
Additionally: 2 Mains may have non-linear effects
Mega-Projects - Mega-Projects can require many generations to complete, take an unknown amount of time to do so, and drain Econ while active, but can produce massive benefits once complete. Once chosen, the occupy the Main Focus slot until either completed or stopped early. Early stopping once started does not refund any of the investments and increases social strife. To reduce confusion, mega-projects are not listed as part of the voting project list and must be "written-in".
The Garden - The canal has greatly expanded the People's knowledge of controlling and directing water. A smaller but more personal project has been proposed to improve Valleyhome [Stewards] [King] (3-6? action commitment, -1 Econ per action)
Great Dam - The river can run wild and dangerous when the rains come strong, but could it not be controlled by the same principles by which the water on the hills is channelled and contained, merely on a larger scale? [Stewards][King] (4-7? action commitment, -1 Econ per action)
[Stewards] special kicker: Pay 1 Stability to double the effort on a megaproject action, consuming twice the required per turn resources but advancing the job faster. If taking a second main action on a megaproject, requires additional Stability payment to double that as well.
I'd like to highlight a few projects in particular.
First, this thing:
I take back everything bad I ever said about The Greater Good. This one action alone is worth all the trouble of absorbing that trait. The ability to sacrifice Economy to gain Stability is exactly what we need to deal with LoO's negative effects. And that note about human sacrifice implies that the DPs have been relying on this to keep themselves stable for a while now.
Also, please note this part. If I'm reading it correctly, we'll be gaining 3 Economy per turn for about 4 turns from our Baby Boom. That might change depending on our actions, but a guaranteed free 3 Econ per turn is nothing to scoff at.
One thing I really want to get this turn is this action. We've been putting off metal for a while now, and while it's always been for good reasons, I think that it's time we beelined metal.
Now, as for the Stability issue, I'm seeing people split between "Grand Sacrifice", "More Blackbirds+Restore Order" and "Festivals". Note that we have only 3 Economy right now, so if we main Grand Sacrifice we won't be able to pick any more Econ consuming actions without risking dropping below 0, which would lower our Stability anyway.
As for the "Blackbirds+Order", I'm honestly kinda tempted. Having more Blackbirds will boost our Martial a bit and Restore Order is a bit risky but helps to root out corruption. It's still a bit of a gamble, but if we double down on RO we'd lower the chance of failure.
On the other hand, Festivals is guaranteed to raise Stability for a lower cost compared to Grand Sacrifice, which lets us take other econ consuming actions this turn. However, we can only use it a few more times, so a part of me does kinda want to save it as an emergency "Stability NOW" button.
... after glancing through the thread, we seem to have a compromise vote that's gaining steam:
[X] [Secondary] Study Metal
[X] [Secondary] Establish Annual Festival
I'm not 100% happy about this, but it does allow us to:
a) Raise Martial and get more spies/police forces
b) Try to raise our tech and properly gain metal working
c) Settle our stability issues without burning too much Econ
EDIT:
New
[x][Main] More Blackbirds
[x][Secondary] Restore Order
[x][Secondary] Restore Order x2
Last edited:
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Hi Zamin! Thank You for your donated processing cycles to the collective!Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of "zamin over-analyses everything". Today, we have a special "I got to work early and my boss hasn't arrived yet so I'm surfing the net" episode.
TLDR: We flubbed our innovation roll, so our stability's dropped and people are unhappy because they think that the king isn't doing his job.
Also, the line about how our elders and clan heads are trying to encourage people made me laugh. "Don't worry. If you work hard and do your best, one day you too may be able to screw over all your neighbors for personal gain."
Well, at least something's going well. A bit annoyed that the DPs haven't collapsed, but I suppose it was a long shot anyway.
-----------------------------------------
STATS:
General
Diplomacy 6
Economy 2 (+6)
Martial 6 (+1)
Stability
Stability 0 (neutral)
Legitimacy 3 (maxed)
Organizational
Centralization 4
Hierarchy 7
Cultural
Art 5
Mysticism 3
Prestige 4General
Diplomacy 6
Economy 3 (+3)
Martial 7
Stability
Stability -1 (anxious)
Legitimacy 3 (maxed)
Organizational
Centralization 4
Hierarchy 7
Cultural
Art 5
Mysticism 3
Prestige 4
Looks like our Economy didn't actually go as high as expected, which is a bit sad. Still, at least we have a steady income for the next few turns.
Stability, on the other hand, has dropped again. If only we had a way to raise it that wasn't dependent on a dice roll, eh?
Everything else seems about the same.
--------------------------------------
CHOICES:
Art Patronage - Wealth of the first and second kind can be used to create wealth of the third kind to the benefit of all
* S: -1 Econ, +2 Art
* M: -2 Econ, +3 Art, +1 Prestige, potential innovations
Black Soil - Production is now regular and huge amounts of trash are turned to black soil every year, but there's always room for more production [Shapers] [King]
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Econ next turn, additional effects
* M: +1 Econ, additional effects
* used 2 times
Build Chariots - Once the domain of rich nomad chieftains, there is now enough copper to make construction of this new design practical for the People and deployable on a large scale. Used: 0 times
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Martial
*M: -2 Econ, +3 Martial, other effects
Build Wall - Long experience with retaining walls has lead to the idea of a settlement wall for protection (Redshore and Stonepen capitals walled)
* S: -1 Econ, minor walls
* M: -1 Econ, major walls
Enforce Authority - The power of the king is not to be questioned, and the army can be used to demonstrate that
* S: -1 to 0 Stability, +1-3 Centralization
* M: -1 to 0 Stability, lower odds of Stability loss, +2-3 Centralization
* the more settlements with walls outside of the capital, particularly large walls, the less effective this action is
Establish Annual Festival - A yearly harvest festival and a planting festival brings entertainment and stability by reminding people of the good things in life, and can help teach newcomers the ways of the People, so perhaps another festival might be of use?
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Stability, chance for additional effects
* M: -1 Econ, +1 Stability, +1 Art, chance for additional effects
* Max Stability: Legitimacy - 1
Expand Economy - Encourage the growth of food producing activities such as farming, pastures, or fishing, depending on where focus is placed
* +1 Econ, potential additional effects
* 12 uses remain before requiring new territory
Expand Forests - The People have knowledge of how to regrow and repair forests, which extends to bringing them to places they have never been, with considerable effort
* S: -1 Econ, grows forest, +1 Econ next turn if in settled territory and controlled
* M: -1 Econ, grows forest, +2 Econ next turn if in settled and controlled territory
Expand Holy Sites - The current places dedicated to the spirits and wisdom have accumulated interesting objects and tellers of stories, but they could be made a bit better
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Mysticism
* M: -2 Econ, +2 Mysticism, +1 Art, potential additional effects
Expand Snail Cultivation - While now more reliably grown and harvested, the snail domestication has only managed to hold environmental changes at bay rather than increase production. More investment would increase cultivation
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Diplo
* M: -2 Econ, +2 Diplo, potential additional effects
Expand Warriors - More men can be inducted into the ranks of the warriors every year and not face major food shortfalls
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Martial
* M: -2 Econ, +2 Martial, potential additional effects
Grand Sacrifice - Communal sacrifice is a great way to bring the People together, and to also even out class distinctions. NOTE: Because the People do not use human sacrifice, the Econ costs are especially harsh. Max Stability: Legitimacy
*S: -2 Econ, +1 Stability
*M: -3 Econ, +2 Stability
More Blackbirds - Elite scouts and woodsmen, the Blackbirds are a potent force, if not exactly mainline fighters. More of them could prove useful
* S: -1 Mysticism, +1 Martial more Blackbirds
* M: -1 Econ, -1 Mysticism, +1 Martial, many more Blackbirds, additional effects
More Carrion Eaters - Keepers of sacred and profane knowledge, the Carrion Eaters thread a dangerous path but bring valuable knowledge for treating wounds and inspiring courage, greatly bolstering the morale of warriors by ensuring them that their companions are not doomed if they fall. More could prove useful.
*S: -1 Mysticism, +1 Martial, more Carrion Eaters
*M: -1 Econ, -1 Mysticism, +1 Martial, many more Carrion Eaters, additional effects
More Boats - The things are expensive but oh so useful, so having more of them will increase your capacity for trade, travel, and fishing
* S: -2 Econ, +1 Econ and +1 Diplo next turn, other potential effects
* M: -2 Econ, +1 Econ end of turn, +1 Econ and Diplo next turn, additional effects, tiny chance of innovation;
* used 3 times
New Settlement - There are a few new sites that could have new settlements placed on them: a new settlement within Redshore (can go further south), within Northshore (further to the west, inland to the north into the plains), badlands, eastern hills, northern pastures within Stonepen
* S: +1 Econ next turn, increases number of times Expand Econ can be taken
* M: +1 Econ and +1 Mysticism end of turn, increases the number of times Expand Econ can be taken
Special: Badlands settlement requires a Main action to work at all and only returns as a Secondary, but increases response time and decreases logistics for movement in and out of the badlands
Special: Main action for Eastern Hills produces a new province
New Trails - The new coastal settlement is supported mostly by boats and the expansion of the limited trails there would be of great utility
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Centralization, other effects
* M: -1 Econ, +1 Centralization, +1 Diplo, other effects
Proclaim Glory - A recent innovation from the south, by using art the King can promote people to trust his decisions
* S: -2 Art, +1 Legitimacy
* M: -3 Art, -1 Econ, +1 Legitimacy, +1 Stability, potential +1 Prestige
* Max 3 Stability; modified by Diplomacy skill
Restoration of Order - The people are uncertain, and into that uncertainty bad behaviour can flow. Send in the warriors to reassure people and root out corruption and dissent, restoring the proper function of the People. Max Stability: 0
* S: Gain -1 to 2 Stability
* M: Roll twice, take best result
* modified by Administrative skill
Sailing Mission - The new boats have proven themselves capable of exploring long distances, so what else might they discover along the shores of the sea?
* S: Potential new discoveries
* M: -1 Econ, improved odds of success
Study Forests - The holy site within the sacred forest is the repository of lore on the forests and the things within them, but could the shamans learn more?
* S: Potential new discoveries
* M: -1 Econ, improved odds of success
Study Health - What secrets of nature can be used to improve the health of the People?
* S: Potential new discoveries
* M: -1 Econ, improved odds of success
Study Metal - With intense heat certain rocks can be transformed into metal, but what exactly is going on?
* S: -1 Mysticism, chance of new insights
* M: -1 Econ, greater chance of new insights
Study Stars - What secrets do the heavens hold when you study the stars and their motions carefully? 1 Uses, 1 Uses in a Row
*S: +1 Mysticism, tiny chance of new insights
Cannot be used as a Main action
Survey Lands - Foreigners have discovered strange materials within their lands, are these materials perhaps also found within the lands of the People?
* S: Potential new discoveries
* M: -1 Econ, improved odds of success; used 1 time
Trade Mission - Sending a major caravan to another large group can bring new opportunities and find out more about the outside world
* S: -1 Diplo, additional effects depending on target, +1-2 Diplo end of of turn;
* M: -1 Diplo, -1 Econ, additional effects depending on target, +1-2 Diplo end of turn, +1-2 Diplo next turn
War Mission - You can send raiding parties against groups that have declared themselves hostile
* S: Potential loss of Martial, can prevent Econ and Diplo damage when being attacked, can damage enemy Martial and Diplo
* M: Probable loss of Martial, can prevent Econ and Diplo damage when being attacked, can damage enemy Martial, Diplo, and Econ, always has a mid-turn decision point
Reminder: 2 {S} applied to the same project = 1 {M}
Additionally: 2 Mains may have non-linear effects
Mega-Projects - Mega-Projects can require many generations to complete, take an unknown amount of time to do so, and drain Econ while active, but can produce massive benefits once complete. Once chosen, the occupy the Main Focus slot until either completed or stopped early. Early stopping once started does not refund any of the investments and increases social strife. To reduce confusion, mega-projects are not listed as part of the voting project list and must be "written-in".
The Garden - The canal has greatly expanded the People's knowledge of controlling and directing water. A smaller but more personal project has been proposed to improve Valleyhome [Stewards] [King] (3-6? action commitment, -1 Econ per action)
Great Dam - The river can run wild and dangerous when the rains come strong, but could it not be controlled by the same principles by which the water on the hills is channelled and contained, merely on a larger scale? [Stewards][King] (4-7? action commitment, -1 Econ per action)
[Stewards] special kicker: Pay 1 Stability to double the effort on a megaproject action, consuming twice the required per turn resources but advancing the job faster. If taking a second main action on a megaproject, requires additional Stability payment to double that as well.
I'd like to highlight a few projects in particular.
First, this thing:
I take back everything bad I ever said about The Greater Good. This one action alone is worth all the trouble of absorbing that trait. The ability to sacrifice Economy to gain Stability is exactly what we need to combo LoO's negative effects. And that note about human sacrifice implies that the DPs have been relying on this to keep themselves stable for a while now.
Also, please note this part. If I'm reading it correctly, we'll be gaining 3 Economy per turn for about 4 turns from our Baby Boom. That might change depending on our actions, but a guaranteed free 3 Econ per turn is nothing to scoff at.
One thing I really want to get this turn is this action. We've been putting off metal for a while now, and while it's always been for good reasons, I think that it's time we beelined metal.
Now, as for the Stability issue, I'm seeing people split between "Grand Sacrifice", "More Blackbirds+Restore Order" and "Festivals". Note that we have only 3 Economy right now, so if we main Grand Sacrifice we won't be able to pick any more Econ consuming actions without risking dropping below 0, which would lower our Stability anyway.
As for the "Blackbirds+Order", I'm honestly kinda tempted. Having more Blackbirds will boost our Martial a bit and Restore Order is a bit risky but helps to root out corruption. It's still a bit of a gamble, but if we double down on RO we'd lower the chance of failure.
On the other hand, Festivals is guaranteed to raise Stability for a lower cost compared to Grand Sacrifice, which lets us take other econ consuming actions this turn. However, we can only use it a few more times, so a part of me does kinda want to save it as an emergency "Stability NOW" button.
... after glancing through the thread, we seem to have a compromise vote that's gaining steam:
[x][Main] More Blackbirds
[X] [Secondary] Study Metal
[X] [Secondary] Establish Annual Festival
I'm not 100% happy about this, but it does allow us to:
a) Raise Martial and get more spies/police forces
b) Try to raise our tech and properly gain metal working
c) Settle our stability issues without burning too much Econ
Exclusively when we have excess Econ past 6. Restore Ordervis a bit of a diceroll, while Grand Sacrifice always works, so it lets us bank actions.
Then we do double kicked megaprojects.
Restore Order is an administrative action that happens to use warriors because that's what we've got.
This is one of the reasons I want it paired with More Blackbirds.
- Location
- Panama City
@Academia Nut what tier trait is The Greater Good anyways?
- Location
- nz
[x][Main] More Blackbirds
[x][Secondary] Restore Order
[x][Secondary] Restore Order x2
[x][Secondary] Restore Order
[x][Secondary] Restore Order x2
Last edited:
- Location
- Huezil
Probably three, i think we can only combine traits of the same level...
And @zamin i think black soil can upgrade the land each time giving more econ and allowing for more expand econ actions...