Grand Sacrifice - Communal sacrifice is a great way to bring the People together, and to also even out class distinctions. NOTE: Because the People do not use human sacrifice, the Econ costs are especially harsh. Max Stability: Legitimacy
*S: -2 Econ, +1 Stability
*M: -3 Econ, +2 Stability

THIS. THIS IS THE BUTTON WE WANT.

[X] [Main] New Settlement - Eastern Hills
[X] [Secondary] Establish Annual Festival
[X] [Secondary] New Trails

We have the econ to spare, here.

The opening up of the Eastern Hills as a province should not only extend the baby boom, but enhance its effects. It is also, essentially, an extra secondary action to add.

Math:

Starting econ: 3(+3)
{M} New settlement: +1 Econ +1 Mysticism -1 Centralization
{S} Festival: -1 Econ +1 Stability
{S} New Trails: -1 Econ +1 Centralization
Ending Econ: 2(+3)
Other additions: +1 Mysticism + New Holy Site in Eastern Hills
 
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We've transitioned to increased local government, and promptly discovered that local government is corrupt government.

We need to deal with that before we give local government more power.
The corruption thing we have been seeing and dealing with since we first got kings seems endemic to our government type.
WE can fix it but... hmmm I need to think on it for a moment.
 
THIS. THIS IS THE BUTTON WE WANT.

[X] [Main] New Settlement - Eastern Hills
[X] [Secondary] Grand Sacrifice
[X] [Secondary] New Trails

We have the econ to spare, here, and more importantly, it doesn't use up one of our festival slots.

The opening up of the Eastern Hills as a province should not only extend the baby boom, but enhance its effects. It is also, essentially, an extra secondary action to add.
No restore order to try to get at the corruption?
Adhoc vote count started by BungieONI on Apr 18, 2017 at 8:44 PM, finished with 18896 posts and 15 votes.
 
No, we need as much econ as possible. I want enough econ that #we can burn it all in a main.
Also, I want to be able to expand to the other hills and etc. If you look at the map, this province is the first step to stretching all the way across, and the one and only place that's in a relatively unprotected area rather than a hilly forest.
Yes, I'd rather not.

While I don't disagree, I hold Expanding our military base in higher priority right now, especially since we can delay the new province a turn. Also gives us a chance to Study Rocks and Annual Festival as well.
We have the econ to spare, here, and more importantly, it doesn't use up one of our festival slots.
But why not use the festival first? It's cheaper and does the same. Why would we need to hold on the the festival "slots?" (Still don't think they are as limited as people think>.>)
 
THIS. THIS IS THE BUTTON WE WANT.

[X] [Main] New Settlement - Eastern Hills
[X] [Secondary] Grand Sacrifice
[X] [Secondary] New Trails

We have the econ to spare, here, and more importantly, it doesn't use up one of our festival slots.

The opening up of the Eastern Hills as a province should not only extend the baby boom, but enhance its effects. It is also, essentially, an extra secondary action to add.

Math:

Starting econ: 3(+3)
{M} New settlement: +1 Econ +1 Mysticism -1 Centralization
{S} Grand Sacrifice: -2 Econ +1 Stability
{S} New Trails: -1 Econ +1 Centralization
Ending Econ: 1(+3)
Other additions: +1 Centralization +1 Mysticism + New Holy Site in Eastern Hills
We don't have actually econ to spare given various spending requests to fulfill and the efficiency on secondary Grand Sacrifice is god awful.
 
A net +0 resource secondary and a +1 resource main?

No. No, it really isn't.

We use that for the "reduce class distinction" aspect and for emergency stability, not for mashing.
Uhhhhhh.. Huh?

Net 0 secondary? What do you mean?

It's an unlimited use Stability boost we can use at any time, with a cap of Legitimacy, and we spend Econ to do it. We like to keep our Econ High so we can use this semi-frequently. Not an emergency button from what I can see.
 
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Grand Sacrifice - Communal sacrifice is a great way to bring the People together, and to also even out class distinctions. NOTE: Because the People do not use human sacrifice, the Econ costs are especially harsh. Max Stability: Legitimacy
*S: -2 Econ, +1 Stability
*M: -3 Econ, +2 Stability
Whoa. Max Stability = our Legitimacy? Stability 3? NICE
But this looks like a very effective Oh Shit button. I like,
 
But why not use the festival first? It's cheaper and does the same. Why would we need to hold on the the festival "slots?" (Still don't think they are as limited as people think>.>)

I'm operating under the assumption of the limited festival slots.

A net +0 resource secondary and a +1 resource main?

No. No, it really isn't.

Why's that? Econ is our most easily replaced resource. Especially right now, and Grand Sacrifice is our only reliable method of Gaining +2 stability with a single action.
 
[X][Main]Expand Warriors
[X][Secondary]Study Metal
[X][Secondary]Establish Annual Festival

Grand Sacrifice is nice, and exactly what I predicted GG would give us, but it is also only really useful as a Main since it gives stability at a 3:2 ratio doing so. Also, we have over ten expand econ slots, so Baby Boom isn't going to get stopped any time soon unless we go with huge LoO triggers, so this is a great turn for some martial and tech advancement with a bit of a stability kicker.
 
We don't have actually econ to spare given various spending requests to fulfill and the efficiency on secondary Grand Sacrifice is god awful.
What spending requests? That math right there leaves us at 1 econ. Sure we can do a festival instead and leave us at 2 econ, but I'm assuming we should limit our uses of that.
 
Why do you see this as an Oh Shit?
burn econ to get stability? That sounds a lot like "[] [Sacrifice]Everything! (-4 Econ, +1 immediate stability, chance of extra stability, ???)" to me.
I mean, we definitely COULD use it on the regular. But what I'm saying is it could ALSO be our emergency stability button
 
[X] [Main] More Blackbirds
[X] [Secondary] Establish Annual Festival
[X] [Secondary] Restore Order

This should get our stability in order or just wash out secondaries. It is also doesn't drain our Mysticism and Economy too much. If we go for stability we can potentially trade it back for massive econ boast.

Edit- might be convinced to change Establish Annual Festival Establish Annual Festival to[Secondary] Grand Sacrifice if an argument can be made for it.
 
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New Vote Proposal

[] [Main] New Settlement - Eastern Hills
[] [Secondary] Grand Sacrifice
[] [Secondary] Study Metal.
 
If we do the Greater Good Sacrifice, we want to do it as a main. 50% increased cost for 100% increased effectiveness is a massive benefit.
We need a good base of warriors more.
We have a good base, enough to safely invest 1 main into specialists. Blackbirds I think is the best since they're both scouts and police, but Chariots is the most efficient in terms of martial/action. Both are guaranteed some sort of advancement, whereas basic warriors is only a chance for that.
We need to deal with that before we give local government more power.
It's creating another local government, not giving the existing ones more power. It will likely guarantee a mini-turn similar to the last one though, giving us another chance to improve our government tech. The problem is as much from record-keeping issues from the switchover as it is the corruption.
 
burn econ to get stability? That sounds a lot like "[] [Sacrifice]Everything! (-4 Econ, +1 immediate stability, chance of extra stability, ???)" to me.
I mean, we definitely COULD use it on the regular. But what I'm saying is it could ALSO be our emergency stability button
I don't really make that connection.

I see it as a Godsend of Manna from on High. It can be both.

I think AN was taking pity on us. Also I now have very little inclination to fuse away The Greater Good.
Adhoc vote count started by BungieONI on Apr 18, 2017 at 8:54 PM, finished with 18912 posts and 17 votes.
 
While I don't disagree, I hold Expanding our military base in higher priority right now, especially since we can delay the new province a turn. Also gives us a chance to Study Rocks and Annual Festival as well.
We *can* but it is suboptimal to do so, especially since we *can* do Study Metal* the turn after. Or, if a sacrifice of Centralization is desired, now. I hold expanding spacewise in a higher priority because it is optimal to do so, whereas military can be expanded at any point in time. It is furthermore better to expand now while the DP are distracted by their weakened military, rebellious populace, and increased predation by opposed polities. All of these mean that the wall-less province is still satisfactorily safe, and has time to expand before needing to be walled.

Net 0 secondary? What do you mean?
I believe she was stating the following: -1 Econ + 1 Centralization = 0 resources. The Main is the Province, though calling it a 1 is inaccurate.
Grand Sacrifice is a net -1 resources, though stability is of course of high value.

I'm operating under the assumption of the limited festival slots.
At present I would rather use the festival slots under the potentially false belief that it will work to meld our presently fractured population.
Meh, fuck it, it makes sense in the sense that we're sacrificing our econ to thank the spirits for the bounty we're being provided with.
[X] [Main] New Settlement - Eastern Hills
[X] [Secondary] Grand Sacrifice
[X] [Secondary] New Trails

Edited In Question: @Academia Nut Would it be possible in the future to specify which group of spirits we are making the sacrifice to? E.g. terrestrial, celestial, and ancestral?

Can someone link me to that post AN made about what our religion is? Is it just Celestial, Terrestrial, and Demonic?
 
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Net 0 secondary? What do you mean?
We've various ways of converting one resource into another, and so we can estimate their relative value.

Grand Sacrifice and LoO both put stability at ~1 per 2 economy.

Spending 2 economy to get 1 stability and then spending 1 stability for 2 economy leaves us having wasted actions, given that we've got options that give better returns than equivalent conversion.

So Grand Sacrifice is best done when we need loads of stability right now - which -1 stability doesn't count as - or when we want its nonmechanical effects, aka the "reducing class distinctions" thing.
 
We've various ways of converting one resource into another, and so we can estimate their relative value.

Grand Sacrifice and LoO both put stability at ~1 per 2 economy.

Spending 2 economy to get 1 stability and then spending 1 stability for 2 economy leaves us having wasted actions, given that we've got options that give better returns than equivalent conversion.

So Grand Sacrifice is best done when we need loads of stability right now - which -1 stability doesn't count as - or when we want its nonmechanical effects, aka the "reducing class distinctions" thing.
Hmmm.

That makes sense. Thanks! :D
Adhoc vote count started by BungieONI on Apr 18, 2017 at 9:00 PM, finished with 18916 posts and 17 votes.
 
Here's the tally so far:

Vote Tally : Paths of Civilization | Page 754 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.4
[1] Kick the garden.

——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Main
[6][Main] New Settlement - Eastern Hills
[6][Main] Expand Warriors
[4][Main] More Blackbirds
[1][Main] Mega project - The Garden

——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Secondary
[10][Secondary] Establish Annual Festival
[8][Secondary] Study Metal
[4][Secondary] New Trails
[3][Secondary] Restore Order
[3][Secondary] Restore Order x2
[2][Secondary] Expand Annual Festival
[1][Secondary] Mega project - The Garden x2
[1][Secondary] Grand Sacrifice
Total No. of Voters: 17
 
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