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Paths of Civilization

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pbluekan said:
Wait what? Since when?
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Always done that apparently.

It takes 1 stability away from our current and then does + 1d4-1 to Stability. Approximately. AN made a post about this an hour or so ago.
Adhoc vote count started by BungieONI on Apr 14, 2017 at 9:13 PM, finished with 187 posts and 39 votes.
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[X] [Sacrifice] Everything! (-4 Econ, +1 immediate stability, chance of extra stability, ???)
[X] [Harmony] No, they could cause further panic
[X] [Ward] No, it is sacred magic (Small chance of stability loss)
[X] [King] Speak with spirits (Twythulmyn dies, +1 immediate stability, +1 Legitimacy, ???)
[X] [Refugee] Some from friendly groups can come in (-2 Stability, +4-5 Econ)

Changing vote to go with the bandwagon (mostly), if only to get a coherent decision on what to do.

I'm still unconvinced that burning all our food will have serious negative consequences trait-wise.
 
Size of Sacrifice to Spirits
[] Everything! (-4 Econ, +1 immediate stability, chance of extra stability, ???)

I'd prefer something less, because I can't think of anything nice those ??? could be, but better this than establishing a precedent of human sacrifice. And we need the stability and the chance of extra stability.

Starting stability -1 +1 certain (+1 uncertain) = 0 (+1)
(The figures in the parentheses are the best case scenario figures)

Emergency Restore Harmony?
[] No, they could cause further panic
[] Yes, the people need to be further calmed (-1 to +2 Stability)

Can't decide... if this is taken we really should take at least one immediate stability boost so it won't dip us too low. Fifty-fifty chance of being worth it. Twenty five percent chance of doing actual harm.

Share the scourge warding magic?
[] Everyone, even the Dead Priests! (Shares far and wide for -1 Diplomacy, +1 Stability, ???)

Because I think it's the right thing to do. Also it will probably give us more intel on the Dead Priests. No matter what: I want to do this. Hangwind said it better.
Hangwind said:
No, actually my views have always been consistent: don't take risks for stuff you don't need, but don't hesitate when you mihgt get something you do.

And here's the thing. We got the LoO chain started by being generous when we had little to nothing-by being generous in poverty. This time, we can evolve the trait by being generous when we hold all the cards-generosity in power. And this is incredibly important. We want our people, more specifically our burgeoning rulers, to be the kind of people that look at someone and say, "He needs help, let's help him." We want that even, especially, when there is no chance of the person being able to pay them back, or to help them at all.

More, this is a narrative thing to me. This seems like an opportunity to set our ideals against the DP's. To look at someone that brings nothing but death and give life instead. To pit our charity against their selfishness. This is more than a war of wood and stone, this is a war of ideals. And I intend for charity to rule our little portion of the world, even in the face of the worst that humanity has to offer. Because that is when charity is at it's strongest; when it has no reason to exist and no right to be expected.

Do we not destroy our enemies when we make them our friends?
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Stability carried over 0 (+1) +1 = +1 (+2)

Where should Twythulmyn go?
[] Remain home (Chance of stability gain)

Like I mentioned earlier, I don't want to set the precedent of human sacrifice, however well meaning. It's just so wasteful for no good reason. We avoided it before, when that big drought brought us to starvation, we can avoid it again. It gave us sharing circle too and we've kept up with it. This, or rather the LoO choice, seems likely to be a trigger for upgrading it again. And keeping Twythulmyn at home gives us another possibility to gain even more stability.

Stability carried over +1 (+2) +0 (+1) = +1 (+3)

If I had to guess I'd say that the two "chance of stability gain" would even out to a +1 giving us a likely +2 stability with these option before LoO or restore harmony...

With disease and comets, everyone has lost their mind and thousands are running scared
[] Some from friendly groups can come in (-2 Stability, +4-5 Econ)
[] Many may enter (-3 Stability, +6-8 Econ, ???)
[] The People must offer aid (-4 Stability, +8-11 Econ, probable overcrowding issues, ???)

... Just the name of the -4 option draws me. The People must offer aid. The People should offer aid. It's the nice thing to do. I really want to be nice. However we should try to avoid destroying ourselves in the process, since that way we can't be nice ever again. That would be a waste. We shouldn't go to low either though. Sticking to the path was what gave us the trait that made us profit from this in the first place. I'm hoping that if we keep doing it, even at risk to ourselves again and again, we might evolve it again.

Note: I'm going with the assumption that there's a very high chance that LoO will be the last thing to activate. Because otherwise AN will have given us a disproportionate amount of options to kill ourselves with and while he does occasionally give us objectively bad options I don't think he would give us that many.

If you're going with the same options as me and want to be safe, I recommend going with the "some from friendly groups" option and no RH. That should put you at -1stability at the very worst, probably at 0 stability, possibly even at +1. With a nice Econ boost and no chance of anything extra, whatever that extra may be. A RH added to this could at worst put us at -2 and at best at +3!

If you want the high risk, high reward (that is the reckless) option I would go for "The people must offer aid" for at worst a -3 (-4 is what kills us) though -2 is more likely and at best a -1, which we can deal with, but not easily. An absolutely massive econ boosts, possible overcrowding issues which would also have to be dealt with and a mystery bonus/drawback. I'm guessing tech boosts and/or a possible trait change.

Add a Restore Harmony to that and you risk killing us. Though I don't think the chances are good for that. Not only would you have to get the worst possible result, both the "possible stability gain" options would have to fall flat too, and at least one of those is a diplomacy roll from our diplomacy hero. A zero wold put you in the same situation as not choosing to do RH and the +1 or +2 would put the possible stability at somewhere between -2 and +1.

What I'm going to go with, still risky though not quite as risky, is "many may enter" which has -2 as the worst case scenario and -1, which we've dealt with before, as much more likely and 0 as the best case scenario. There's a very nice Econ boost, no chance of overcrowding and some kind of extra, which I am still thinking is either a tech boost, a trait change or both, because LoO does say it gives a chance of getting us techs.

I'm still debating with myself whether or not I should add a Restore Harmony. That would change the worst case scenario to -3, a pretty horrible result, but it would also raise the best case scenario to +2 and I have taken an immediate stability boost so it would kind of be the same as taking it at 0 stability. Not recommended, but not horrible either. Hm, I think I just persuaded myself to do it.
...
No. I don't want to risk it.


[X] [Sacrifice] Everything! (-4 Econ, +1 immediate stability, chance of extra stability, ???)
[X] [Harmony] No, they could cause further panic
[X] [Ward] Everyone, even the Dead Priests! (Shares far and wide for -1 Diplomacy, +1 Stability, ???)
[X] [King] Remain home (Chance of stability gain)
[X] [Refugee] Many may enter (-3 Stability, +6-8 Econ, ???)

I'd love to discuss this with people, but chances are I'll be asleep like I should be right now.
 
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hylas240 said:
I'm still unconvinced that burning all our food will have serious negative consequences trait-wise.
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Honestly, taking things to the limit has often been rewarded, assuming we don't all die. That often being a real possibility, which is why we don't take things to the limit often. :V

I'd guess it is more likely to evolve the harmony trait to a more self sacrificing category, possibly giving an improvement to restore harmony?

The only thing I'm sure of is that the king sacrificing himself will evolve honorable death.
 
Okay, since a quick skim of the thread is all off the cuff panic votes. analysis:
Diplomacy 7->5(+2?)

Redshore sent one trade mission into the wilds, our King sent another. It's unknown whether they're successful.

Economy 2(+2)->4

Cashed out Economy. We can spend 4 at once at low risks.

Stability 0->-1

This looks like we failed the Mysticism roll to avert Cometary doom.

Twythulmyn had had many things planned. He had been ordering the expansion of the warriors and militia, left ill at ease by the territorial expansions of southern neighbours, he had sent out a mission to the Thunder Horse to see how they were doing and if they needed support, while also trying to make sure that connections of trade and friendship were further developed. He had been frustrated by the news that a group of boats had gone scouting to the south of Redcoast and disappeared, even as the pastures in the northern hills were expanded.
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Stonepen - Expand Economy(Pastures)
Redcoast - Trade Mission(Into the Wilds) - Result unknown until next turn.
Sacred Forest - Expand Economy or Study <Something>(?)
Valleyhome - Study <Something> - No result

Reminder that we have 9 Economic expansion slots left now
He had been listening to the happenings in the south with some interest and anxiety, as the Highlanders and Dead Priests seemed to settle into a period of quiet consolidation, letting their subject villages squabble on their behalf while they turned inward. He had especially wondered what the Dead Priests might be up to, with word of increased trade flowing out of their city, and of changes as to how they were dealing with their slaves, but as it was all coming third or fourth hand it was hard to be sure what might be happening.
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Dead Priests and Highlanders are taking actions to boost Centralization, Diplomacy and Legitimacy while they have a cooling off period.

Not good for us of course, but we also see that provinces can take War Missions on their own.

Traders had also brought news of the chief who had caused all the trouble among the Metal Workers also somehow succeeding in his ambitions and unifying his people and Twythulmyn had wondered at sending another expedition their way to congratulate the man, solidify ties, and possibly also learn more about the stones that were mysteriously made into metal.
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Hi, Metal King guy, how are your four daugthers now? Satisfied? :p
If we don't do the Study Rocks as main, we probably should send them a secondary trade mission.

He had so many plans, and then a stranger appeared in the sky. He had been a boy when the comet had appeared in the sky and Bynwyn had calmed the populace, had told them not to be afraid, and had more or less countered the magic of the Spirit Talkers. The thing was though that you kind of had to look for that comet, which while unsettling when you found something strange in the sky it wasn't immediate and obvious that it was there.

Not this monster. Brighter than the Morning Star and with tails that trailed across the sky, it had slowly drifted across the sky for two seasons now and seemed to be getting brighter and brighter with each passing night. Utter terror gripped the People, and while there were many shamans these days, there were fewer who studied the celestial spirits than ever and they had no answers as to what to do to appease this monster in the sky. Unseasonal storms of shooting stars blazed across the sky, as if the stars themselves were at war and were firing their bows of fire and thunder for or against this intruder.
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In the coming days, it may be known as the King-killer.

And we can see here the consequences of Mysticism 0, we have shamans, but no idle ones to study abstract concerns.

And then, as above so below, during the summer months there was a mass outbreak of the scourging disease among the lowlands, cutting down thousands and turning the entire region into a frothing frenzy as villages turned upon each other, both out of fear that they might be harbouring the 'Star Pox' and in an attempt to satiate the panicked desire for blood of the Dead Priests.

Trade to the south ground to a halt and the northern plains were equally thrown into madness from the fear gripping the nomads there. Only the sea routes to the west and the land routes to the east remained relatively clear, and many sailors and traders refused to head out under the baleful influence of the serpent in the sky.
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This is kind of good for us. We weather the crisis just fine...if we don't panic anyway.
Of those theories that were being floated that the People were able to do anything about, the dominant ones were that the People had somehow angered the spirits with their warding magic against the scourging plague, and that the Thunder Horse had somehow intruded upon matters they did not understand with their star axe and settling in the valley where the Spirit Talkers once lived.
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Panic ensues :V

So the people seize upon every possible offensive action, though personally I'd peg it on the STs curse if I were them.

Of the first, while there were some who called that the warding magic itself had angered the spirits and they were sending an emissary to correct the imbalance
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Honorable Death triggered.
many others felt that the issue was simply that they had horded magic that could save lives and thus they were being informed that if they had such miracles they had to share the magic with others.
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Land of Opportunity triggered
For the second, there was less that could be done there, although the trade mission to the Thunder Horse were being sent runners to try to get more information out of them, and Twythulmyn was tempted to join them in an attempt to get more information and potentially get the Thunder Horse to act on whatever might be going on.
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This gives us a chance to affect the outwards ones.

Although, grimacing, there was also an idea he had and had quietly run past the Chief Shaman to see if it was viable - it technically was, but he hadn't voiced it to anyone else yet - and that was to attempt to leverage his charm and diplomacy directly. He had never considered himself particularly selfless - he had technically got the position of king by being the opposite -, but for his family, for his People... if the shamans and other chiefs thought it might work, he would offer up his life. The only method the Chief Shaman thought might work though was immolation and incineration, so that when his spirit detached from his body it would be carried quickly up to the sky where he might entreat with the comet and other celestial spirits and beg that they be merciful to the people. Beyond that, the People were going to be making a mass sacrifice to their ancestral spirits in an attempt to gain their protection.
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And the tradition of kingly sacrifice potentially emerges, bringing him to myth.

Size of Sacrifice to Spirits (Task [Sacrifice])
[] Small (-1 Econ, chance of stability loss, ???)
[] Medium (-2 Econ, ???)
[] Large (-3 Econ, +1 Stability, ???)
[] Everything! (-4 Econ, +1 immediate stability, chance of extra stability, ???)

Sliding scale here. We probably want to avoid the Small sacrifice due to the chances of stability hits at a time we're taking lots of them.
The bigger the sacrifice, the higher the probability that we'd get a trait demanding sacrificing economy when Stability is low...which means a recursive Stability-destruct loop at low Economy like the Lowlanders faced with Pioneering Spirit.


Emergency Restore Harmony? (Task [Harmony])
[] No, they could cause further panic
[] Yes, the people need to be further calmed (-1 to +2 Stability)

This is almost certainly a Secondary restore harmony.
As our leader has average Administration and we don't get a reroll, it's likely to give us a governmental crisis from hitting Stability -2 or -3 temporarily.

Share the scourge warding magic? (Task [Ward])
[] No, it is sacred magic (Small chance of stability loss)
[] It should be shared with friendly tribes (Shares with a few groups)
[] Even less friendly groups should know of the magic (Shares with many groups, chance of stability gain, ???)
[] Everyone, even the Dead Priests! (Shares far and wide for -1 Diplomacy, +1 Stability, ???)

I have no idea why we'd share with the DPs, but it should be noted that the more we share to, the more likely they are to get it via trade.

Where should Twythulmyn go? (Task [King])
[] Remain home (Chance of stability gain)

Conservative option. Hurts us the least, just try to smooth things out.

[] Talk with the Thunder Horse (Applies Heroic diplomacy to interactions over the crisis)

This takes advantage of the opportunity to manipulate the Thunder Horse. Good choice if otherwise conservative, bad choice otherwise as it won't help Stability

[] Speak with spirits (Twythulmyn dies, +1 immediate stability, +1 Legitimacy, ???)

This is almost certainly going to evolve Honorable Death + Humility to Self Sacrifice.
Which means when faced with Stability crisis, we can sacrifice the King for an immediate +Stability bonus, in exchange for losing a King who actually knows what to do.
Awesome for the immediate turn. Awful in the long run.

The last thing you want to do in a crisis is to kill off the experienced guy overseeing it!


With disease and comets, everyone has lost their mind and thousands are running scared (Task [Refugee])
[] Close the borders (-1 Stability, chance of further stability loss)
[] Only let in some (Significant chance of stability loss)
[] Those with preexisting ties can come in (-1 Stability, +2 Econ, small chance of further stability loss)
[] Some from friendly groups can come in (-2 Stability, +4-5 Econ)
[] Many may enter (-3 Stability, +6-8 Econ, ???)
[] The People must offer aid (-4 Stability, +8-11 Econ, probable overcrowding issues, ???)
[] All who need aid must receive it (-5 Stability, +11-15 Econ, overcrowding issues, ???)

Overall, the fourth one seems the most advantageous to me. We'd temporarily drop to -3 if we lack an Immediate boost however, and that'd be nasty.
The first and third are the worst ones after the obviously crazy "take everyone" options, as they take a stability hit AND have a risk of taking a further hit to no gain.

However we don't breakup at -3. We lose the option to take Restore Harmony at -3, so if this is the only Stability loss we take and we add a few stability gains to pull back out, this can be done safely.
We'd still take the stability crisis point though.

As such I can see a few plans:
[] [Sacrifice] Medium (-2 Econ, ???)
[] [Harmony] No, they could cause further panic
[] [Ward] It should be shared with friendly tribes (Shares with a few groups)
[] [King] Remain home (Chance of stability gain)
[] [Refugee] Only let in some (Significant chance of stability loss)

This is the conservative route in the long run, maintaining our advantages without building negative traits. However, it has the least immediate gains. We'd potentially drop to Stability -2, but we'd be in a solid position to take Festivals and Main Restore Order next turn to get out of the hole.

This basically means we play the game where we emerge from the crisis in a better situation than anyone else, and can go expansionist over the next 3 turns while their butts are all on fire

[] [Sacrifice] Everything! (-4 Econ, +1 immediate stability, chance of extra stability, ???)
[] [Harmony] No, they could cause further panic
[] [Ward] It should be shared with friendly tribes (Shares with a few groups)
[] [King] Remain home (Chance of stability gain)
[] [Refugee]Some from friendly groups can come in (-2 Stability, +4-5 Econ)

This basically goes with preserving our Economy margin, at worst it'd just break even there, but with a risk of negative traits from sacrificing everything.


Personally I'd go with:
[X] [Sacrifice] Medium (-2 Econ, ???)
[X] [Harmony] No, they could cause further panic
[X] [Ward] It should be shared with friendly tribes (Shares with a few groups)
[X] [King] Remain home (Chance of stability gain)
[X] [Refugee] Only let in some (Significant chance of stability loss)

We can afford NOT to take a profit here, and we can recover from losing 1 Stability to refugees. This lets us maintain traits healthy for stability, even if next turn is now going to be the Restore Stability turn.
 
Human Sacrifice is against the way of our patron spirits of earth. This is a long established fact in the narrative. It would be Out of Character for us as a civilization to start now, when we have an enemy who we hate for the exact reason that they conduct human sacrifice.

I look forward to writing the incredulous, exuberant DP Nega-SV Omake when they find out that the guys who hated them for human sacrifice are now doing human sacrifice. Good Job, chucklefucks.
 
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[X] [Refugee] The People must offer aid (-4 Stability, +8-11 Econ, probable overcrowding issues, ???)
[X] [Harmony] Yes, the people need to be further calmed (-1 to +2 Stability)
counter to above
[X] [Sacrifice] Large (-3 Econ, +1 Stability, ???)
with the many entering, we soak the econ hit and gain back some stability
[X] [Ward] Even less friendly groups should know of the magic (Shares with many groups, chance of stability gain, ???)
Gotta get that herd immunity, but also fuck the dead priests (they'd probably just kill anyone we sent). Also, if they get it secondhand, they'll probably botch like we did at first.
Seriously. Fuck the dead priests.
[X] [King] Remain home (Chance of stability gain)
 
pbluekan said:
Read it a bit more, we actually had some reasoned discussion and voting. There was even math.
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Still catching up, but it doesn't seem to change anything on the analysis.

I'm opting to take a net -2 hit to Economy in exchange for a best case of Stability 0, worst case of Stability -2, and likely case of Stability -1. We've been at those levels, so we already know we can recover from it efficiently(compared to everyone else anyway). We don't really need to gamble on Restore Harmony or eating large amounts of refugees after all, we got plenty of economic space to expand into at present(9 slots of auto progress by governors!), so this sets up for an easy:
[Main] Restore Harmony
[Secondary] Establish Annual Festival
[Secondary] Trade Mission(Metal Workers)
Next turn, allowing us to renew our lore of metal rocks, and bring Stability back up to the safe zone.

I'm opting against Royal Sacrifice, because while it reassures the people in the immediate term, sacrificing the person who best knows how to handle a crisis, in a crisis is majorly counterproductive in terms of traditions gained.
I'm mildly against Grand Sacrifice, because, again, sacrificing all your goods in a crisis means that while people feel better about it, they're less able to actually DEAL with a crisis, so it's not a good tradition to gain.

I'm quite mystified at the eagerness to burn Stability and gain it in rapid sequence, triggering Stability Loss events(remember Stability drops always inflict events that can cost even more stability?) for a frankly minor gain in Economy.
 
Well after some more Mathing. The leading combo of 4 would give us either:

A
(already at -1)+(0+0+1 immediate+1 immediate+1)= +2 Stability
or

B

(already at -1) +(-1 +0 +1 immediate+1 immediate)= 0 Stability
 
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[X][Sacrifice] Large(-3 Econ, +1 Stability, ???)
[X][Harmony] Yes, the people need to be further calmed (-1 to +2 Stability)
[X][Ward] No, it is sacred magic (Small chance of stability loss)
[X][King] Remain home (Chance of stability gain)
[X][Refugee] Some from friendly groups can come in (-2 Stability, +4-5 Econ)

Just no. I don't care if choosing to not kill our king breaks our civ. We didn't come this far just to resort to human sacrifice now. Also choosing to not kill our king just might give us a trait that says "fuck you" to mystic Rolls telling our people to panic.
 
pbluekan said:
If we share it at all they're going to get it within a turn. Two maximum.
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In degenerated form. Word of mouth is a shitty way to share innoculation, and while I'm willing to accept a risk of Stability -2, a risk of Stability -3 would not be pleasant and also locks out the ability to pull it back out of the hole next turn easily.
Noting that currently our friendly neighbors are...pretty much Thunder Horse and Highland Kingdom, who are currently enemies of the Dead Priests and not trading with them directly, though their tributaries may pass it on in some way.
So minimum of two turns to pass it to the Dead Priests, as the Highland Kingdom trades with Dead Priest tribute states, who trade with the Dead Priests...by the time they do that the damage is done, and they no longer have an epidemic to test how it works.

Remember without our infrastructure ,our allies would be down to rubbing cowtits in hopes of a cure(conservative) or rubbing bleeding wounds on cowtits in hopes of a cure(reckless). EIther of which would either be low success rate, or likely evolve to trying to bleed people of disease after rumor mutation.
 
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veekie said:
Still catching up, but it doesn't seem to change anything on the analysis.

I'm opting to take a net -2 hit to Economy in exchange for a best case of Stability 0, worst case of Stability -2, and likely case of Stability -1. We've been at those levels, so we already know we can recover from it efficiently(compared to everyone else anyway). We don't really need to gamble on Restore Harmony or eating large amounts of refugees after all, we got plenty of economic space to expand into at present(9 slots of auto progress by governors!), so this sets up for an easy:
[Main] Restore Harmony
[Secondary] Establish Annual Festival
[Secondary] Trade Mission(Metal Workers)
Next turn, allowing us to renew our lore of metal rocks, and bring Stability back up to the safe zone.

I'm opting against Royal Sacrifice, because while it reassures the people in the immediate term, sacrificing the person who best knows how to handle a crisis, in a crisis is majorly counterproductive in terms of traditions gained.
I'm mildly against Grand Sacrifice, because, again, sacrificing all your goods in a crisis means that while people feel better about it, they're less able to actually DEAL with a crisis, so it's not a good tradition to gain.

I'm quite mystified at the eagerness to burn Stability and gain it in rapid sequence, triggering Stability Loss events(remember Stability drops always inflict events that can cost even more stability?) for a frankly minor gain in Economy.
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Honestly, from the plan @Powerofmind set up, we are pretty much set up to not have rapid drops to negative stability. In face the first thing is to push us to 0 in the first place.

The most important thing in this vote, IMO is to keep our biggest advantage from spreading. I don't know why you or anyone else is so eager to let it go. The second it gets out to anyone else, it will be everywhere, so picking the middling options is fairly useless in the mid term.
 
veekie said:
In degenerated form. Word of mouth is a shitty way to share innoculation, and while I'm willing to accept a risk of Stability -2, a risk of Stability -3 would not be pleasant and also locks out the ability to pull it back out of the hole next turn easily.
Noting that currently our friendly neighbors are...pretty much Thunder Horse and Highland Kingdom, who are currently enemies of the Dead Priests and not trading with them directly, though their tributaries may pass it on in some way.
So minimum of two turns to pass it to the Dead Priests, as the Highland Kingdom trades with Dead Priest tribute states, who trade with the Dead Priests...by the time they do that the damage is done, and they no longer have an epidemic to test how it works.

Remember without our infrastructure ,our allies would be down to rubbing cowtits in hopes of a cure.
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Hey veekie this is what the current leading combo of:

  1. [] [Ward] No, it is sacred magic (Small chance of stability loss)
  2. [] [Harmony] No, they could cause further panic
  3. [] [King] Speak with spirits (Twythulmyn dies, +1 immediate stability, +1 Legitimacy, ???)
  4. [] [Sacrifice]Everything! (-4 Econ, +1 immediate stability, chance of extra stability, ???)
Will do to our Stability. I'm not thinking about the traits that could be gained yet. Want to break this down into parts.

Stability Math

A
(already at -1)+(0 from Ward not proccing + 0 from Harmony +1 immediate from sacrificing Twythulmyn + 1 immediate from Sacrifice +1 Sacrifce proccs positive Stability gain)= +2 Stability
or

B

(already at -1) +(-1 from Ward proccing bad + 0 from Harmony +1 immediate from sacrificing Twythulmyn +1 immediate from Sacrifice)= 0 Stability
 
[X] [Sacrifice] Medium (-2 Econ, ???)
[X] [Harmony] No, they could cause further panic
[X] [Ward] No, it is sacred magic (Small chance of stability loss)
[X] [King] Remain home (Chance of stability gain)
[X] [Refugee] Those with preexisting ties can come in (-1 Stability, +2 Econ, small chance of further stability loss)
 
pbluekan said:
Honestly, from the plan @Powerofmind set up, we are pretty much set up to not have rapid drops to negative stability. In face the first thing is to push us to 0 in the first place.

The most important thing in this vote, IMO is to keep our biggest advantage from spreading. I don't know why you or anyone else is so eager to let it go. The second it gets out to anyone else, it will be everywhere, so picking the middling options is fairly useless in the mid term.
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Still catching up on the thread, I'm not strongly invested in spreading it as long as the net Stability works out, and we aren't burning all our goods and our King.

Considered on a practical level both of those are trading off the ability to handle a crisis....for the ability to reassure people that there isn't one.

What's the PoM vote this time?
 
veekie said:
Still catching up on the thread, I'm not strongly invested in spreading it as long as the net Stability works out, and we aren't burning all our goods and our King.

Considered on a practical level both of those are trading off the ability to handle a crisis....for the ability to reassure people that there isn't one.

What's the PoM vote this time?
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Hey veekie this is what the current leading combo of:

  1. [] [Ward] No, it is sacred magic (Small chance of stability loss)
  2. [] [Harmony] No, they could cause further panic
  3. [] [King] Speak with spirits (Twythulmyn dies, +1 immediate stability, +1 Legitimacy, ???)
  4. [] [Sacrifice]Everything! (-4 Econ, +1 immediate stability, chance of extra stability, ???)
Will do to our Stability. I'm not thinking about the traits that could be gained yet. Want to break this down into parts.

Stability Math

A
(already at -1)+(0 from Ward not proccing + 0 from Harmony +1 immediate from sacrificing Twythulmyn + 1 immediate from Sacrifice +1 Sacrifce proccs positive Stability gain)= +2 Stability
or

B

(already at -1) +(-1 from Ward proccing bad + 0 from Harmony +1 immediate from sacrificing Twythulmyn +1 immediate from Sacrifice)= 0 Stability
Adhoc vote count started by BungieONI on Apr 14, 2017 at 9:51 PM, finished with 208 posts and 44 votes.
Click to expand...
 
Right, Strategic Voting Time

[X][Sacrifice] Large (-3 Econ, +1 Stability, ???)
[X][Harmony] Yes, the people need to be further calmed (-1 to +2 Stability)
[X][King] Remain home (Chance of stability gain)
[X][Ward] ] Even less friendly groups should know of the magic (Shares with many groups, chance of stability gain, ???)
[X][Refugee] Many may enter (-3 Stability, +6-8 Econ, ???)
 
BungieONI said:
Hey veekie this is what the current leading combo of:

  1. [] [Ward] No, it is sacred magic (Small chance of stability loss)
  2. [] [Harmony] No, they could cause further panic
  3. [] [King] Speak with spirits (Twythulmyn dies, +1 immediate stability, +1 Legitimacy, ???)
  4. [] [Sacrifice]Everything! (-4 Econ, +1 immediate stability, chance of extra stability, ???)
Will do to our Stability. I'm not thinking about the traits that could be gained yet. Want to break this down into parts.

Stability Math

A
(already at -1)+(0 from Ward not proccing + 0 from Harmony +1 immediate from sacrificing Twythulmyn + 1 immediate from Sacrifice +1 Sacrifce proccs positive Stability gain)= +2 Stability
or

B

(already at -1) +(-1 from Ward proccing bad + 0 from Harmony +1 immediate from sacrificing Twythulmyn +1 immediate from Sacrifice)= 0 Stability
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Urgh. We're going for the second worst long term combination.
 
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