-
Going forward, links to content from Twitter (now X) will no longer be embedded. Pre-existing links should not be affected.
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
VoidZero
Passing Flan 布丁魔王
- Location
- Anywhere but RL
@Academia Nut
Do provinces take action during mini-turns? Is this turn a mini-turn?
Do provinces take action during mini-turns? Is this turn a mini-turn?
Last edited:
- Location
- Anchorage, Alaska
A) Marginal risk, while this will definitely lend some metaphysical weight to the office, (thus the + legitimacy) their isn't a direct, or even indirect, connection to our selection process.
B) Actually pretty good odds of this, except that we'd probably have the decency to wait until their actually dead before we cremate them. Usually. Oh, And cremation will enter the list of 'viable burial practices', even if it would initially be reserved for the King.
C) Unlikely, but possible. Odds likely inversely proportional to how much OTHER stuff we send up with him, since it provides a scale to measure how big a deal it was. Probably inverse.
2982 Also, talk about an anti-corruption method! "Theum burned himself at the stake for this Kingdom! What have YOU done recently?"
Last edited:
- Location
- Panama City
did you not even pay attention to @Powerofmind 's analysis, or are you just opposed in principle, damn whatever we may get out of it?
Powerofmind
In Madness Fallen
- Location
- United States
This nets us to 5 or 6 economy. We don't especially care that they want to spend economy on provincials, because 6 economy is more than enough for us to spend the economy we need to spend ourselves.
I would argue that the precedent here is that we're sacrificing the especially talented king to work his tongue-wagging magic at the spirits, along with a large sacrifice of goods so that he can 'bring them to the bargaining table' in the spirit world. Ideally, this will only create a need to do this 'when absolutely necessary', or as a one-time clever trick to convince the spirits to take an offering that would have been too small otherwise, rather than preferring the sacrifice of human life over our regular grain and cow offerings.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
A gay and festive time truly
A promise made, between you and me
A Geas set betwixt, and a single favor owed
When soever the favor fulfilled,
or death take either, my debt is paid.
Last edited:
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
his analysis was of what would happen assuming we sacrificed the king and didn't share the ward, not of what would happen if we didn't.
Powerofmind
In Madness Fallen
- Location
- United States
If we don't do either, we don't chance any strangeness from the King ???. There's really nothing to analyze about that, other than the basic grain and meat offerings we'd be doing instead.
[X] [Sacrifice] Everything! (-4 Econ, +1 immediate stability, chance of extra stability, ???)
[X] [Harmony] No, they could cause further panic
[X] [Ward] No, it is sacred magic (Small chance of stability loss)
[X] [King] Speak with spirits (Twythulmyn dies, +1 immediate stability, +1 Legitimacy, ???)
[X] [Refugee] Some from friendly groups can come in (-2 Stability, +4-5 Econ)
Not my preferred choice, but it is the most stable chance of odds and actually very close to my original plan.
Understandable, I just wanted to see about kicking off culture conversion. I would be very happy if this shatters the DP. Either way, I believe the ward action should be all or nothing. If we give it to others, that just gives the DP something to raid.
[X] [Harmony] No, they could cause further panic
[X] [Ward] No, it is sacred magic (Small chance of stability loss)
[X] [King] Speak with spirits (Twythulmyn dies, +1 immediate stability, +1 Legitimacy, ???)
[X] [Refugee] Some from friendly groups can come in (-2 Stability, +4-5 Econ)
Not my preferred choice, but it is the most stable chance of odds and actually very close to my original plan.
Understandable, I just wanted to see about kicking off culture conversion. I would be very happy if this shatters the DP. Either way, I believe the ward action should be all or nothing. If we give it to others, that just gives the DP something to raid.
Hyacinthium
Writing about sad cannibals as we speak.
- Location
- Bedroom
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I- I
I don't know what to do about this cluster fuck. IT'S TIME TO BRAVELY RUN AWAY
I don't know what to do about this cluster fuck. IT'S TIME TO BRAVELY RUN AWAY
- Location
- Panama City
Can we convince you to drop to just a large sacrifice? It'll guarantee we get more than we started with, and has a lower chance of possible bad outcomes
- Location
- Hell
And how will it be decided "absolutely necessary" in the future? It's a slippery slope and I'd rather stay away from the edge there.
As you yourself noted. It is a "may" not become a thing. Not a guarantee one way or another.
Also note that since it is an immediate Stability boost, we're going to sacrifice him first thing, leaving us completely without a King for the following options. There is no guarantee that we would find a proper substitute in that time.
You'll have to explain these bad outcomes to me in a detailed and believable way that doesn't come off as fearmongering, rather than just insisting it be true.
If you can do that I'd consider switching.
- Location
- Panama City
pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
- Location
- Trumpistan
- Pronouns
- He/Him
You have a point here, and I applaud your reasoning. Where I disagree is on your point of risk.
Yes, the open hand is the way we want to be, but if the people in question are not only not reciprocating (which is OK) but actively attempting to subjugate us, then I think we have a problem. This is a war of ideals, true, but it is also a war of survival and growth. That needs to be considered. We are not conquerors, and I think that is just as important as our generosity and conscientiousness(god what a word to spell) towards nature. The DP are our polar opposite, and diplomacy and annexation is not an option with them. That leaves conquering or outlasting them. We can't conquer them, we lack the ability, and I think if we tried to build that ability up we would lose everything else. Outlasting them takes events like this, and sure, it's immoral, but sometimes you just have to make that choice.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
Yeah, it's just that tryr was citing your analysis as if it were comprehensive, end-all-be-all.
Incidentally, I don't necessarily agree that doing an Everything! would be more likely the result in a God-King leadership, but I'm disinclined to sacrifice it all anyways. It's reactionary.
*shrug* I agree that it's essentially all-or-nothing with the Ward in that if we give it to anyone it will eventually spread to the DP. I just feel that the temporary heightened pressure on the DP as their population decreases but that of us and our allies stays the same will be significant in the short (i.e. 10 turns) term.
I think we'll be more likely to have cultural conversion if we continue to make an effort to reach out to other civilizations through Trade Missions and constitute a strong nation. The Ward is a nice gift that might constantly remind people that we gave it to them, but it does not create dependence and needn't be bound with our approach to religion.
Last edited:
I just did quick calculations. You're proposed plan gives us a potential of hitting -2 or -1 at the end of things, with a chance of temporarily hitting -3. The one I support gives us a chance of ending up at -1 or 0, with a chance of hitting -2 temporarily at worst.
So no, I am unconvinced. Taking stability hits, even temporarily, is a bad thing, and ending up one econ ahead won't matter much if we have to spend that one extra point of econ and an extra action to make up the difference with festivals.
So no, I am unconvinced. Taking stability hits, even temporarily, is a bad thing, and ending up one econ ahead won't matter much if we have to spend that one extra point of econ and an extra action to make up the difference with festivals.
Last edited:
- Location
- Staring into the void
[X][Sacrifice] Large(-3 Econ, +1 Stability, ???)
[X][Harmony] Yes, the people need to be further calmed (-1 to +2 Stability)
[X][Ward] No, it is sacred magic (Small chance of stability loss)
[X][King] Remain home (Chance of stability gain)
[X][Refugee] Some from friendly groups can come in (-2 Stability, +4-5 Econ)
[X][Harmony] Yes, the people need to be further calmed (-1 to +2 Stability)
[X][Ward] No, it is sacred magic (Small chance of stability loss)
[X][King] Remain home (Chance of stability gain)
[X][Refugee] Some from friendly groups can come in (-2 Stability, +4-5 Econ)
Also, to further dam the stability argument. The plan of 'sacrifice everything' is notably less likely to hit it's worse case scenario as the large sacrifice is, since we gain one immediate stability.
Stability is the most valuable thing here, and immediate stability is exceptionally valuable as it makes it less likely for the worst case scenario to happen. Granted, we don't know exactly how much since that would require access to mechanics we are not privy to, but it does decrease the odds.
Stability is the most valuable thing here, and immediate stability is exceptionally valuable as it makes it less likely for the worst case scenario to happen. Granted, we don't know exactly how much since that would require access to mechanics we are not privy to, but it does decrease the odds.
pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
- Location
- Trumpistan
- Pronouns
- He/Him
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
So I'm wondering. The thread seems to want our people to develop a morality along these lines:
We are humble, generous and compassionate people. We believe in the best in people. We open our arms to anyone. However, we have an absolute line in the sand, and if anyone abuses our kindness to harm those we care for and protect. We will destroy them utterly and tear down all they have worked for.
I am FULLY BEHIND this!
We are humble, generous and compassionate people. We believe in the best in people. We open our arms to anyone. However, we have an absolute line in the sand, and if anyone abuses our kindness to harm those we care for and protect. We will destroy them utterly and tear down all they have worked for.
I am FULLY BEHIND this!
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
[X] [Sacrifice] Everything! (-4 Econ, +1 immediate stability, chance of extra stability, ???)
[X] [Harmony] No, they could cause further panic
[X] [Ward] No, it is sacred magic (Small chance of stability loss)
[X] [King] Speak with spirits (Twythulmyn dies, +1 immediate stability, +1 Legitimacy, ???)
[X] [Refugee] Some from friendly groups can come in (-2 Stability, +4-5 Econ)
Sacrifice is to ancestral spirits; King is to celestial spirits.
@Killer_Whale Please do not do Restore Harmony, it's too risky and inherently brings us down by 1 stability initially as part of its mechanics. We can do it the following turn as a Main, hopefully together with a [Main] New Trails.
[X] [Harmony] No, they could cause further panic
[X] [Ward] No, it is sacred magic (Small chance of stability loss)
[X] [King] Speak with spirits (Twythulmyn dies, +1 immediate stability, +1 Legitimacy, ???)
[X] [Refugee] Some from friendly groups can come in (-2 Stability, +4-5 Econ)
Sacrifice is to ancestral spirits; King is to celestial spirits.
@Killer_Whale Please do not do Restore Harmony, it's too risky and inherently brings us down by 1 stability initially as part of its mechanics. We can do it the following turn as a Main, hopefully together with a [Main] New Trails.