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Paths of Civilization

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[X] The ritual is incomplete, more study is required before it can be safely used on a widescale (Temporarily unlocks Scourge Warding megaproject)

[X] Build more boats and attempt a flank attack (Costs Econ to build new boats, which you will keep no matter the result)

[X] Bynwyn (Poor Martial, Mediocre Admin and Diplomacy, Heroic Mysticism, accelerates Scourge Warding megaproject while alive, chance for bonus Stability)
 
[X] The ritual is incomplete, more study is required before it can be safely used on a widescale (Temporarily unlocks Scourge Warding megaproject)
[X] Hole up in the hills where the People are at maximum advantage
[X] Bynwyn (Poor Martial, Mediocre Admin and Diplomacy, Heroic Mysticism, accelerates Scourge Warding megaproject while alive, chance for bonus Stability)
 
I'd like to point out I like Bynwyn, even taken separately from the Wonder. I like that our little ant farm produced someone like him and he's managed to thrive.
I give him my seal of approval.
 
Spectrum said:
Let me lay out the case like this in a way that should make it clearer what should drive the decision through proper application of game theory.

Build more boats and go on the offense:
Success - Nomads back off, secondary action not needed for War mission. Guaranteed Econ decrease, possible increase later to Econ or Diplo.
Failure - Nomads don't back off, secondary action still needed for War mission. Risk of Military loss. Guaranteed Econ decrease, possible increase later to Econ or Diplo.

Hole up on defense:
Success - Nomads find no easy targets amongst the people, raid others. Possible Econ/Stability trade for refugees. Secondary action needed for War mission only for a turn.
Failure - Nomads keep being belligerent, secondary action needed for War mission for multiple turns.

If Econ is a relevant stat (aka doing the shiny or any other actions that will drain Econ), then Hole up on defense mostly dominates Build more boats.
If Econ isn't a relevant stat (because we're doing an Econ/expansion/not straining research turn), then Build more boats is fine since we won't care as much about the downsides.
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We have economy 6. Given we only absorbed one faction and took a 1 stability hit on the turn we doubled the canal, along with a festival, it is likely that even the manpower-heavy canal only consumed 1 econ per action (Main Canal + Main Canal + Festival = Econ gain from LoO = (suspected 3).

Assuming that is the case, economy is not a relevant element to consider when looking at the boats as an expense (which could, at a stretch, be assumed to cost 2 econ directly, and repay 1 during the next turn), since even if we doubled the megaproject (which is mysticism heavy, not manpower heavy), we would only conceivably lose 4 points of economy, leaving us with 2 for the following turn (which is an acceptable level considering the state of our neighbors).
 
[X] The ritual is incomplete, more study is required before it can be safely used on a widescale (Temporarily unlocks Scourge Warding megaproject)
[X] Build more boats and attempt a flank attack (Costs Econ to build new boats, which you will keep no matter the result)
[X] Bynwyn (Poor Martial, Mediocre Admin and Diplomacy, Heroic Mysticism, accelerates Scourge Warding megaproject while alive, chance for bonus Stability)
 
Powerofmind said:
Given we only absorbed one faction and took a 1 stability hit on the turn we doubled the canal, along with a festival, it is likely that even the manpower-heavy canal only consumed 1 econ per action (Main Canal + Main Canal + Festival = Econ gain from LoO = (suspected 3).
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I'm going to repeat what I said the last time this came up: I'm pretty sure we got two points of econ from an automatically expanding settlement.

Granted, we just built another of those last turn, so we've probably got another three or four income on its way right now.
 
Is there any reason we can't hole up this turn and try raiding the nomads with boats later when we have a better military leader?
 
Also considering the new map I don't see any reason what so ever to expand into the lowlands, we should stick to the hills, not only is there plenty of land but it also provides natural defenses against enemies (especially the nomads) but also potential natural resources and access to the sea.

Something else to consider is that a trade mission to the metalworkers is now possible via our new boats.

Also @Academia Nut what is the relative population like now?
 
Candesce said:
I'm going to repeat what I said the last time this came up: I'm pretty sure we got two points of econ from an automatically expanding settlement.

Granted, we just built another of those last turn, so we've probably got another three or four income on its way right now.
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Two points in a single turn sounds a touch ridiculous, not to mention that there is also compelling evidence to the assumption that the Administrative genius who built the settlement caused it to pay out on the first turn, instead of on a delayed clock.

In either case, you are right about the other settlement coming into it's own this turn, and my point about the primary weight of this megaproject falling on our shamans rather than our granaries combines to still solidly support the idea that we will be fine economically by taking the boat action.
 
[X] The ritual is incomplete, more study is required before it can be safely used on a widescale (Temporarily unlocks Scourge Warding megaproject)

[X] Build more boats and attempt a flank attack (Costs Econ to build new boats, which you will keep no matter the result)

[X] Bynwyn (Poor Martial, Mediocre Admin and Diplomacy, Heroic Mysticism, accelerates Scourge Warding megaproject while alive, chance for bonus Stability)
 
Its really annoying that the DP have the river that has its source in the SP lands flowing through their lands if it was the other one we could have been sneaky and damed up their river the prevent them from having any water and defeated them that way.
 
[X] The ritual is incomplete, more study is required before it can be safely used on a widescale (Temporarily unlocks Scourge Warding megaproject)
[X] Build more boats and attempt a flank attack (Costs Econ to build new boats, which you will keep no matter the result)
[X] Bynwyn (Poor Martial, Mediocre Admin and Diplomacy, Heroic Mysticism, accelerates Scourge Warding megaproject while alive, chance for bonus Stability)

...wow.
That went way better than I expected it to.
And this megaproject - all the yes!

Our shamans managed to, mostly, figure out how diseases work, at least the effects and infection processes.
That could be huge.
 
No7sHere said:
Its really annoying that the DP have the river that has its source in the SP lands flowing through their lands if it was the other one we could have been sneaky and damed up their river the prevent them from having any water and defeated them that way.
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Crow no, they'd just start drinking the blood of their slaves to survive. Wicked fiends the lot of them.
 
Powerofmind said:
Two points in a single turn sounds a touch ridiculous, not to mention that there is also compelling evidence to the assumption that the Administrative genius who built the settlement caused it to pay out on the first turn, instead of on a delayed clock.
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Settlements pay out more than once. They're worth more than a single point of econ - if they're not getting raided, anyway. We know they'll take some econ-positive actions automatically, if they can - expanding farmlands and pastures, and that entire business with getting that last action into step-farms.

My estimate is that the confluence settlement payed out 1 immediately, 2 the next turn, and maybe one more after.
 
[X] The ritual is incomplete, more studyis required before it can be safely used on a widescale (Temporarily unlocks Scourge Warding megaproject)

[X] Build more boats and attempt a flank attack (Costs Econ to build new boats, which you will keep no matter the result)

[X] Bynwyn (Poor Martial, Mediocre Admin and Diplomacy, Heroic Mysticism, accelerates Scourge Warding megaproject while alive, chance for bonus Stability)
A chance to tell any black plague wannabe to fuck off? Yes please!
 
[X] The ritual is incomplete, more study is required before it can be safely used on a widescale (Temporarily unlocks Scourge Warding megaproject)
[X] Hole up in the hills where the People are at a maximum advantage.
[X] Bynwyn (Poor Martial, Mediocre Admin and Diplomacy, Heroic Mysticism, accelerates Scourge Warding megaproject while alive, chance for bonus Stability)

Maybe we should try and do new sacred warriors with Bynwyn's heroic mysticism since we expect them to be based off the plains which would help when fighting the nomads?
 
[X] Build more boats and attempt a flank attack (Costs Econ to build new boats, which you will keep no matter the result)
Is this not a little risky with a leader who has poor martial?
 
No7sHere said:
[X] Build more boats and attempt a flank attack (Costs Econ to build new boats, which you will keep no matter the result)
Is this not a little risky with a leader who has poor martial?
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you just voted for it so let's hope not

Also, the argument is that we have a War Chief who can do all the fighting and make up for our actual High Chief's lack of skill.
 
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