In order to get useful amounts of copper, we need several things. First, we need to survey our hills and find sizeable deposits of copper. As you said, this shouldn't be too difficult. Not guaranteed, but still. It will take an action, however, which we could be short on like we are now.
This SHOULD actually be the most difficult bit. Copper deposits are not so common that you find them even when they exist. Early mines tended to be where a deposit intersects a river or other erosive feature exposing them.

If we don't find it next to a river, then the second best chance is to find some while digging the canal.
Then comes the difficult bit, which is setting up the mines. The Metal Workers are fine with trading people metal, but things like teaching people how to mine? They'd be breaking their own monopoly for people who are far away, not connected by trails, and have had relations with for just a few generations at most. Still even assuming they'd be willing to share their secrets, that's still actions we'd have to take in order to get a proper foundation of professional miners set up to actually do the mining.
This is the easy bit, especially once we do the canal. Our people know how to move rock and earth a LOT, and early mines are open pit excavation.

Short of the Metal Workers, we're as good as it gets.
We'll have to take even more actions to get a proper base of trained blacksmiths in order to work the metal, actions which we might have to use on dealing with natural disasters, or quickly beefing up our military to deal with increased DP pressure against us, or dealing with stability issues, or any number of other possibilities.
This is the tricky bit, though working metal is not as hard as you think to access. Early metalworking is first, cold forging, hammering the material until it's the right shape. This is simple, but takes time to refine.

Next is using heat to soften and work the metal. This is less intuitive and may take some time, but we have high availability of charcoal and kilns, so not that long either.

Then it's advanced techniques. Casting, drawing, sharpening. These are the incremental qualitative stuff that are best imported from elsewhere.

Overall, not that difficult. Pretty much every culture got there.

For those worrying about the DP, copper weapons are exactly the sort of thing that could let us cut them down. In the short term, we could buy from them, while in the long term we could learn our own metal working from them. There's a reason it's called the Bronze Age: metal is just that important on every level. I would legitimately risk our civilization fracturing to acquire a good source of metal.
I'm having a hard time taking this seriously. Copper weapons are inferior to stone in every element except ease of maintenance.

Bronze or meteoric iron weapons are a qualitative step up. But the main advantage of copper is that it's easier to shape into tools. Not weeapons.

In weapons it shows off that you're rich, that's all.
I highly doubt the major players on this thread will be unable to get a trade vote through in the time frame we have.
Noting that at least three said players have already stated the great difficulty of doing the Trade mission while dealing with the stability drop, the overpopulation and the Dead Priest threat...

One of these things have to burn.
The distance between the Nomads and the Death Priest is huge. Even with giving them the ability to travel on our trail network, why do you believe the Nomads have the logistical ability to move an effective army that distance? I am sure they could send some raiding parties, but what would be the point?
Because the Nomads don't do armies. You move entire clans through our territory, into the southlands, where they stay to raid. Nomads bring the whole family along when they go raiding. It's a moving settlement, and why retaliatory raids are so hard.
 
They're nomads. They'll just pack up and move down to the lowlands with their stuff and raid out of there. They have a logistical tail of essentially zero, and can pack up and move when need be. You would essentially be unleashing the full might of the nomads under Wendtikwos on the lowlands.
Come on guys, do you really not want to see this? A nomad hero going ham on someone not us = +1, a nomad hero going ham on an enemy = +2, a nomad hero going ham on an enemy that's been influenced by us and importantly our spirits = +3, and there are probably even more benefits I'm forgetting.

Whether you want to settle the lowlands, or whether you want to turtle up, either approach seems to be accomplish by letting the nomads attack the Dead Priests.

Edit - whoops, I used the completely wrong word.
 
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They're nomads. They'll just pack up and move down to the lowlands with their stuff and raid out of there. They have a logistical tail of essentially zero, and can pack up and move when need be. You would essentially be unleashing the full might of the nomads under Wendtikwos on the lowlands.
....man the Dead Priests sure as hell are NOT seeing this coming.
 
Come on guys, do you really not want to see this? A nomad hero going ham on someone not us = +1, a nomad hero going ham on an enemy = +2, a nomad hero going ham on an enemy that's been influenced by us and importantly our spirits = +3.

Whether you want to settle the lowlands, or whether you want to turtle up, either approach seems to be accomplish by letting the nomads attack the Spirit Talkers.

I hate the ST, but I hate the DP more.
 
[X] Contact with the Metal Workers and safe passage for caravans going that way
[X] Northern Nomads (Probably gain Honour Value)

Just contacting the metal workers is worth it in my opinion. We can get a Civilazation, a look at what smething and mining looks like, and know the poper locaton for them later to perhaps trade by boat if they have sea access.

Next turn
probably
Main - War mission - DP
Secondary 1 expand warriors
secondary 2 survey or trade mission
I still want to stop the DP momentum if we can, the DP rely on it.
 
[X] There is much glory to fighting in the south
-[X] We will offer you safe passage through our lands
[X] No (Keeps Honourable Death)

Changing my vote because of new information from AcademiaNut.
 
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[X] Contact with the Metal Workers and safe passage for caravans going that way
[X] Northern Nomads (Probably gain Honour Value)

Just contacting the metal workers is worth it in my opinion. We can get a Civilazation, a look at what smething and mining looks like, and know the poper locaton for them later to perhaps trade by boat if they have sea access.

Next turn
probably
Main - War mission - DP
Secondary 1 expand warriors
secondary 2 survey or trade mission
I still want to stop the DP momentum if we can, the DP rely on it.

Ugh. We just got out of a war. Why can't we use the Normads to terrorize the DP so we can focus on other stuff.

If we want to contact the metal workers, let's build boats and new settlements.
 
[X] There is much glory to fighting in the south
-[X] We will offer you safe passage through our lands
[X] No (Keeps Honourable Death)

If their entire tribe is south of us, we don't need to worry about safe passage to the metal workers in the north. They won't be there to stop us from trading.
 
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[X] Contact with the Metal Workers and safe passage for caravans going that way
[X] No (Keeps Honourable Death)
 
[X] Contact with the Metal Workers and safe passage for caravans going that way
[X] Northern Nomads (Probably gain Honour Value)

Just contacting the metal workers is worth it in my opinion. We can get a Civilazation, a look at what smething and mining looks like, and know the poper locaton for them later to perhaps trade by boat if they have sea access.

Next turn
probably
Main - War mission - DP
Secondary 1 expand warriors
secondary 2 survey or trade mission
I still want to stop the DP momentum if we can, the DP rely on it.

This prospective plan does not address our negative stability at all - something we really cannot afford to ignore.
 
They're nomads. They'll just pack up and move down to the lowlands with their stuff and raid out of there. They have a logistical tail of essentially zero, and can pack up and move when need be. You would essentially be unleashing the full might of the nomads under Wendtikwos on the lowlands.

Pffft. So they get to fight and earn glory, we get buffer state,and, as Metalworkers are 'on the far side of the sea', we can sail to them eventually anyway.

[X] There is much glory to fighting in the south
-[X] We will offer you safe passage through our lands
[X] No (Keeps Honourable Death)
 
Pffft. So they get to fight and earn glory, we get buffer state,and, as Metalworkers are 'on the far side of the sea', we can sail to them eventually anyway.

[X] There is much glory to fighting in the south
-[X] We will offer you safe passage through our lands
[X] No (Keeps Honourable Death)

Yes, this tidbit of information from AcademiaNut changes things a whole lot.
 
They're nomads. They'll just pack up and move down to the lowlands with their stuff and raid out of there. They have a logistical tail of essentially zero, and can pack up and move when need be. You would essentially be unleashing the full might of the nomads under Wendtikwos on the lowlands.
Interesting, the full might of the nomads under Wendtikwos definitely sounds worthwhile. Trade with Metal Workers is better, but does come with the disadvantage of having to get everyone to vote for a trade mission.

Academia Nut, Can our military adviser estimate the effectiveness of the Nomads versus the Death Priests?
I do not want to just add another group for the Death Priests to harvest.
 
Interesting, the full might of the nomads under Wendtikwos definitely sounds worthwhile. Trade with Metal Workers is better, but does come with the disadvantage of having to get everyone to vote for a trade mission.


To quote AN,
The spirits have favoured me ever since, chiefs betting their entire tribes against me to have it, and all falling before me. Finally though, I took it far to the west, across great rivers and to the far side of the sea, where men pull copper and silver and gold from the ground, so that I could purchase their expertise.

As soon as we get sailing ( :mad: ), we can bypass nomads and their bullshit entirely, so that favour is kind of shit.
Academia Nut, Can our military adviser estimate the effectiveness of the Nomad versus the Death Priests?
I do not want to just add another group for the Death Priests to harvest.
They are tribes of masterful charioteers. Against horseless (?) Dead Priests. On plains.
 
Interesting, the full might of the nomads under Wendtikwos definitely sounds worthwhile. Trade with Metal Workers is better, but does come with the disadvantage of having to get everyone to vote for a trade mission.

Academia Nut, Can our military adviser estimate the effectiveness of the Nomads versus the Death Priests?
I do not want to just add another group for the Death Priests to harvest.

It is a trade mission we cannot afford right now, and possibly cannot afford next turn.
And after two generations without active trade this promise will be honestly forgotten.

So if we didn't have the stability issue, I would campaign for the metall workers option and trading expedition.

But since we do have this issue and the logistic problems of nomads attacking the DP's are none existent, by word of QM, I think getting the nomads to attack the DP's are by far the better option.
 
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[X] There is much glory to fighting in the south
-[X] We will offer you safe passage through our lands
 
@ctulhuslp is right by unleashing the nomads on the DP's we at the very least buy time, if we're lucky they might permanently stalemate and it reduce the population on the other side of us, this would make any future trade missions in that direction (assuming we don't get better boats) a lot easier and might even enable expansion in that direction.
 
Also I honestly feel that this kind of indirect warfare is more elegant, satisfying and our style than the other option and while our neighbours are all preoccupied fighting each other we can stabilise, improve our infrastructure and gain new tech.
 
Once we stabilize, we can finally start on that grand canal project. We got 8 econ! Let us not waste it!

Though maybe we want better sailboat first? Decision, decision, decision.
 
At some point we're going to want to do the dam project as well, it reduces the impact that floods or droughts have on us, teaches us valuable engineering skills like the construction of large free standing structure (we might get basic cranes or pulleys out of it) and also makes us much less susceptible to magical attack from the SPs should we ever get into a fight with them (their previous trick of cyclical floods and drought won't work anymore).
 
It will be difficult to convince everyone to do a Trade Mission next turn and the information from AN on the size of the force to be sent so I will change my vote.

[X] There is much glory to fighting in the south
-[X] We will offer you safe passage through our lands
[X] No (Keeps Honourable Death)
 
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