Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
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- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
Oriko's problem is essentially psychological, similar to the mental block that's kept Kyouko from using her powers since her family died. I don't think it's contagious.
- Location
- Central Europe
So we'd try to vindicate Oriko later on, like how Homura was later vindicated regarding Kyubey? That could work too, though I'd prefer not making that bad a first impression of Oriko to begin with. Just present her as misguided (which IMO is an honest description).
Good point there: copying just the headaches would not be a nice failure mode, although I don't think it should discourage us from trying. I'm pretty sure Sayaka would agree if told the specifics - it's the chance of being able to help (and verify Oriko's visions) vs the chance of a short headache.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Pro-tip: Finding out from us is way better than QB springing it on her after we ostensibly stopped withholding stuff from her.
Keeping Sayaka ignorant of this is straight up impossible in the long run.
Only problem is it's likely to give Sayaka an early Witchbomb (it did for Oriko, after all), and we're not quite ready to explain that one to Sayaka or Mami.
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
Valid point. But perhaps it doesn't need to be said in the same breath as "she burned down your house."
Could be worth the risk of witchbombing Sayaka to have a precog again. That's another thing that we probably can't keep her ignorant of forever.
Alright, I'm going to put forth an updated vote, applying some suggestions I've received from the audience. Now with less pointless detail about the fight, and more considering of our teammates' opinions.
[x] I hope everyone saved room for ice cream!
-[x] Offer everyone ice cream.
[x] Play with Nagisa until Shin comes to pick her up.
[x] Offer everyone their pick of the leftovers.
-[x] Make sure that Homura takes some. They can stay fresh in her shield forever, and she should have something to eat besides instant noodles.
[x] Ask Sayaka if we can talk with her after she's done taking Kyousuke back.
-[x] Create privacy construct and let Mami and Homura know that we think this is probably the best time to tell Sayaka about Oriko.
[x] Find a private setting to talk to Sayaka.
-[x]Break for vote if she gets seriously upset at any point during our explanation.
[x] Sayaka, remember when we said that a lot of magical girls are misguided? There's one in particular named Oriko that you should know about. Her power is precognition. She sees the future. And when she foresaw bad things happening in the future, she tried to prevent them. But in the process, she wound up hurting people. She was convinced that she was the only one who knew what was best for everyone, even if the only way she could think of to save someone's life also meant hurting them.
[x] One day she went too far. She decided that the best way to prevent a vision of someone dying was to do something that hurt a lot of people. I was furious. So the three of us tracked down Oriko and her girlfriend, Kirika. We kicked their asses and made Oriko explain herself. It doesn't excuse what she did, but... she was trying to help, in her own screwed up, suicidal way.
[x] They're under house arrest until further notice. They've even been helping us, to atone for what they did. Kirika was invaluable when we stopped the fighting in Ishinomaki and Sendai, and Oriko's precognition helped us to a lot of good. That night the witch kissed you... we never would have known if she hadn't warned us. She saved your life that night.
[x] Sayaka, the thing she did that made us so angry that we hunted her down, the reason that this has been so hard to tell you... she's the one who set fire to your apartment building.
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- Location
- Central Europe
Which is the primary reason I'd have Homura on standby for that meeting. *If* it turns out that Sayaka can succesfully copy precognition then immediately stop time, keeping Mami out of it while explaining the Witchbomb to the no doubt confused Sayaka.
The only reason we haven't told her or Madoka about this is essentially Mami. We would explain to Sayaka the final dark secret of the Magical Girl system and ask her to keep quiet about it in front of Mami like we have been. We should ask Sayaka to use her precognition to check how bad it would be for Mami if she were to find out. That ought to convince her. We're hoping to find a way to revert a grief seed into a soul gem (and have a handful of leads on that), but aside from that it's just about staying alive like we have been - it should be pointed out that nothing really changes for Sayaka since she (and we) won't ever mess up so badly that her gem would fill. It is, however, another reason for Sayaka not to let Madoka contract. (Which is how we get Homura to play along with this...)
Sayaka'd be distraught when coming out of the timestop, but I don't think the Witchbomb would shatter her like it would Mami, and we could chalk it up to the scary revelations that she saw.
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The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
'Tis a valid point. Mami is the only one for whom the witchbomb is truly dangerous, because of how much of her self-worth is tied to being a magical girl and how many other girls she's led into this life. I won't say that it'll be an easy thing for Sayaka to learn, but I don't see any reason it would make her suicidal, given that we've provided her with the means to prevent it from happening to her for at least the next thousand years.
And keep in mind, the "Kyubey could reveal it at the worst possible moment" reasoning that's driving us to tell Sayaka about Oriko applies to the nature of witches as well. Kyubey doesn't normally reveal it because it would be counterproductive (it's a massive disincentive to contract), but at some point it might become strategically advantageous for him to do so.
And keep in mind, the "Kyubey could reveal it at the worst possible moment" reasoning that's driving us to tell Sayaka about Oriko applies to the nature of witches as well. Kyubey doesn't normally reveal it because it would be counterproductive (it's a massive disincentive to contract), but at some point it might become strategically advantageous for him to do so.
AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
I feel like we should tell Hitomi why she got pushed down those stairs at some point.
Also, just a heads up? Witchbombing Sayaka is super dangerous because there is ZERO canonical precedent for how she handles it. There's like no timelines where someone else witches out and Sayaka is around to deal with the emotional aftermath.
We might be dealing with Tetris for all we know.
- Location
- Central Europe
Hitomi isn't a proper part of the magical girl world and shouldn't be dragged into it. Having Oriko and Kirika personally apologize at some point in the future may be a nice touch, but there's no good reason to go telling Hitomi about this anytime soon. She does know to be weary of Kyubey, right?
May want to mention it to Sayaka, but without making a big deal out of it (perhaps implicitly?).
And who's Tetris? Google only comes up with the colored bricks... Anyway we have a bit of an idea about how Sayaka reasons, so at least her reaction would not be to something like killing magical girls; she's a self-proclaimed hero of justice. That said, any specific bad ways you can foresee her going of the rail? (I have none...)
***
Also:
[X]The Narrator
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
That seems unlikely. Tetris isn't even that common a response from Mami: most of the timelines we know about where she gets witchbombed, she only commits suicide. (Which is not really an unreasonable response to finding out that you're inevitably going to turn into a murdering monster.) I could see Sayaka decided that she needed to mercy kill everyone to prevent them from becoming monsters (because Hero of Justice), but since Sabrina's powers already prevent that, it wouldn't actually be necessary.
There's no route in the PSP game where Sayaka gets witchbombed? Geez, she really is always the first to go.
Due to bizarre internet memes, that scene from the third loop where Mami snaps as a result of the witchbomb and tries to mercy kill everyone has been nicknamed "Tetris".
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
I disagree with this reasoning vehemently. We're not 'dragging her into it', we're keeping her informed of facts that directly inpact her. Keeping Hitomi (or Madoka, for that matter) uninformed is just going to isolate Sayaka from her oldest friends.
That kind of pointless separation of mundane and magical matters was a massive contributing factor to Mami's loneliness, even. The masquerade is a preferred tool of the Incubators to keep magical girls isolated and without social support networks, and keeping facts from Sayaka's friends because they're 'not a proper part of the magical girl world' is doing QB's job for it.
Karnewarrior
Leastmost of the Hanged Man Arcana
True, but we're far more capable of handling Sayaka than Mami. Mami has the resources and skills to beat Homura, and could probably give a tag team of Homura and us a run for our money if she really wanted to. Sayaka doesn't have the sheer level to really be much of a threat, and she can't copy our power to witch us out in time to stop Homura from, worst to worst, putting a bullet in her brain and coma'ing her for the time being (since we have grief hacks, that's effectively a non-lethal way of dealing with someone. Yay magical healing?)
It's also unlikely that Sayaka will react that way to the witchbomb; Mami is, as has been discussed before, a extremely people oriented person. Mami judges her value on how others see her, gains her happiness through interaction with others, even fights better in a group, and her wish was geared towards that - part of the reason I think her potential was that high was because she was mature enough when wishing to wish more directly for what she wanted rather than obliquely like Sayaka did in canon - And so reacted with extreme prejudice when it was revealed that everyone who could understand her and be a true friend to her would be by that nature doomed to live eternally in the worlds worst case of depression ever. Whereas Sayaka is more oriented towards fairness, justice, morality and such; she wished to help us not because she wanted to be a friend to us or because she thinks so lowly of herself that she can't imagine being "selfish" enough not to undergo damnation, but because she's obsessed with things being fair and equal and she felt like we owed her.
Sayaka will likely react to the witchbomb by hating Kyuubey with a passion hot enough to make Homura's look like a candleflame in a bonfire. This strikes her in her JUSTICE the same way it struck Mami in her FRIENDSHIP during Tetris. I doubt she'd start murdering her friends. But she might start hunting Coobies. Maybe making some grim trophies or something.
Instead of becoming a suicide-murderer, she'll go full blackguard and start to hunt the Coobster if she goes Tetris. Which is a bit less likely, imo, but if you're worried about Tetris then Sayaka!Tetris is far more handleable than Mami!Tetris for a reason.
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
That might well be true, but I don't think we should be trying to explain it to her at the same time that we're also explaining to Sayaka how her house burned down. These can be two separate conversations.
AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
Also, it's too late anyway. She's already involved. We do magic infront of her. She knows her friends are Magical Girls. A magical girl assaulted her at her school and broke her arm for magic-related reasons. Keeping her in the loop is necessary for both her own safety and for Sayaka's emotional health.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
At the time Kirika pushed Hitomi down the stairs, she was not a Magical Girl!
At most, you could say that a Magical Girl sent a would be Magical Girl to push Hitomi down the stairs!
)
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
I'm pretty sure we can affirm that, as we've got a case of a Magical Girl being slowly killed by precog. Her own precog, no less!
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
At the time Kirika pushed Hitomi down the stairs, she was not a Magical Girl!
At most, you could say that a Magical Girl sent a would be Magical Girl to push Hitomi down the stairs!
Kyuubey:
-We only make contracts with your consent.
-So you can't say that we're not honest.
Phoenix Wright:
-OBJECTION!
Madoka:
-W-who are you?
Phoenix:
-A contract made with someone underage without the consent of their legal guardian is null and void!
Kyuubey:
-...he can see me?
News Site Headline:
-Lawyer Commits Late Night Break-In Against Female Middle School Student!
-We only make contracts with your consent.
-So you can't say that we're not honest.
Phoenix Wright:
-OBJECTION!
Madoka:
-W-who are you?
Phoenix:
-A contract made with someone underage without the consent of their legal guardian is null and void!
Kyuubey:
-...he can see me?
News Site Headline:
-Lawyer Commits Late Night Break-In Against Female Middle School Student!
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LucidProp
Pocky Eating MafiaDoka
I tried to keep things succint, but vote bloat is a thing now I guess.
I stole the Narrator's Fluff and other parts of their vote because I'm athieving bastard someone who wants what's best for everyone. 
Whether Homura escorts Madoka home, or if she wants to stay with us during the explanation is fine by me. If she does stay with us, I'm confident she's got enough sense in her to not encourage the Blueberry going full tunnel vision and doing something we'd all regret since that caused so many timelines to fall apart already.
[X] "Jeez... you can't end a picnic without ice cream."
-[X] Don't move for a few seconds
-[X] "I'm too fat to get the ice cream." Sadface.
-[X] Consider making Chibi-Brina get the ice cream; remember you can't do that right now. File away the 'Chibi-Brina as food server / maid' idea for later.
[X] Offer everyone Ice Cream and their pick of the leftovers.
-[X] Make sure that Homura takes some. They can stay fresh in her shield forever, and she should have something to eat besides instant noodles.
[X] Play with Nagisa until Shin comes to pick her up.
[X] Ask Sayaka and Hitomi if we can talk with them after they're done taking Kyousuke back.
-[X] Call Homura and Mami over and lay out what we intend once Sayaka and Hitomi are out of earshot. Are they okay with this?
---[X] After that's done, telepathy O&K that we're about to talk to Sayaka. We'll tell them how it ends. Wish us luck.
[X] Find a private setting to talk to Sayaka and Hitomi.
-[X] Follow the vote below if there wasn't any major modifications to our plans, otherwise, do what Mami and Homura suggested.
[X] There's two magical girls Sayaka should meet. Mikuni Oriko is, was a precognitive; she was the one who warned us about Sayaka getting Witch Kissed; and Oriko's girlfriend, Kure Kirika.
-[X] Remember when we said some Magical Girls are misguided? They're like that.
-[X] Oriko's a fatalistic girl who was firm on the 'ends justify the means' mindset, and used her visions to try and achieve good things... even if that meant hurting people.
-[X] We fought them, beat them, put them under house arrest, and have been working on convincing them they can do better, that they can do good and help people without going to the extreme lengths they did. We've made some progress, but, well, there's a reason why we haven't let them out.
-[X] The truth is, Oriko sent Kirika to push Hitomi down the stairs, and was the one who burned down Sayaka's home.
I stole the Narrator's Fluff and other parts of their vote because I'm a
Whether Homura escorts Madoka home, or if she wants to stay with us during the explanation is fine by me. If she does stay with us, I'm confident she's got enough sense in her to not encourage the Blueberry going full tunnel vision and doing something we'd all regret since that caused so many timelines to fall apart already.
[X] "Jeez... you can't end a picnic without ice cream."
-[X] Don't move for a few seconds
-[X] "I'm too fat to get the ice cream." Sadface.
-[X] Consider making Chibi-Brina get the ice cream; remember you can't do that right now. File away the 'Chibi-Brina as food server / maid' idea for later.
[X] Offer everyone Ice Cream and their pick of the leftovers.
-[X] Make sure that Homura takes some. They can stay fresh in her shield forever, and she should have something to eat besides instant noodles.
[X] Play with Nagisa until Shin comes to pick her up.
[X] Ask Sayaka and Hitomi if we can talk with them after they're done taking Kyousuke back.
-[X] Call Homura and Mami over and lay out what we intend once Sayaka and Hitomi are out of earshot. Are they okay with this?
---[X] After that's done, telepathy O&K that we're about to talk to Sayaka. We'll tell them how it ends. Wish us luck.
[X] Find a private setting to talk to Sayaka and Hitomi.
-[X] Follow the vote below if there wasn't any major modifications to our plans, otherwise, do what Mami and Homura suggested.
[X] There's two magical girls Sayaka should meet. Mikuni Oriko is, was a precognitive; she was the one who warned us about Sayaka getting Witch Kissed; and Oriko's girlfriend, Kure Kirika.
-[X] Remember when we said some Magical Girls are misguided? They're like that.
-[X] Oriko's a fatalistic girl who was firm on the 'ends justify the means' mindset, and used her visions to try and achieve good things... even if that meant hurting people.
-[X] We fought them, beat them, put them under house arrest, and have been working on convincing them they can do better, that they can do good and help people without going to the extreme lengths they did. We've made some progress, but, well, there's a reason why we haven't let them out.
-[X] The truth is, Oriko sent Kirika to push Hitomi down the stairs, and was the one who burned down Sayaka's home.
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- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Don't like the changes. Splitting off from the bandwagon.
[x] Welp. Looks like we brought a bit too much stuff. How d'we wanna split the leftovers?
-[x] Slowly start packing up. Escort Nagisa back to Shin, and after a last call for ice-cream, shove the remainder back into Homura's shield, to be retrieved later.
--[x] File away the idea of a chibibrina maid construct for later.
[X] Ask Sayaka and Hitomi if they some time to discuss a couple of things privately once Kyousuke's back.
-[X] If they do, telepathy Mami and Homura: Go or no-go on the discussion?
--[X] If Mami and Homura give you the OK, telepathy O&K that we're about to talk to Sayaka. We'll tell them how it ends. Wish us luck.
[X] Accompany Hitomi and Sayaka back to the hospital with Kyousuke, along with Mami, while Homura escorts Madoka home.
-[X] Once that's settled, get to a more private setting and start talking.
[X] There's two magical girls that both of them should know about. Mikuni Oriko is, was a precognitive; she was the one who warned us about Sayaka getting Witch Kissed; and Oriko's girlfriend, Kure Kirika.
-[X] Remember when we said some Magical Girls are misguided? They're like that.
-[X] Oriko's a fatalistic girl who was firm on the 'ends justify the means' mindset, and used her visions to try and achieve good things... even if that meant hurting people in the way of her goals.
-[X] We fought them, beat them, put them under house arrest, and have been working on convincing them they can do better, that they can do good and help people without going to the extreme lengths they did.
-[X] And the reason we're sharing this... Oriko sent Kirika to push Hitomi down the stairs, and was the one who burned down Sayaka's home.
[x] Welp. Looks like we brought a bit too much stuff. How d'we wanna split the leftovers?
-[x] Slowly start packing up. Escort Nagisa back to Shin, and after a last call for ice-cream, shove the remainder back into Homura's shield, to be retrieved later.
--[x] File away the idea of a chibibrina maid construct for later.
[X] Ask Sayaka and Hitomi if they some time to discuss a couple of things privately once Kyousuke's back.
-[X] If they do, telepathy Mami and Homura: Go or no-go on the discussion?
--[X] If Mami and Homura give you the OK, telepathy O&K that we're about to talk to Sayaka. We'll tell them how it ends. Wish us luck.
[X] Accompany Hitomi and Sayaka back to the hospital with Kyousuke, along with Mami, while Homura escorts Madoka home.
-[X] Once that's settled, get to a more private setting and start talking.
[X] There's two magical girls that both of them should know about. Mikuni Oriko is, was a precognitive; she was the one who warned us about Sayaka getting Witch Kissed; and Oriko's girlfriend, Kure Kirika.
-[X] Remember when we said some Magical Girls are misguided? They're like that.
-[X] Oriko's a fatalistic girl who was firm on the 'ends justify the means' mindset, and used her visions to try and achieve good things... even if that meant hurting people in the way of her goals.
-[X] We fought them, beat them, put them under house arrest, and have been working on convincing them they can do better, that they can do good and help people without going to the extreme lengths they did.
-[X] And the reason we're sharing this... Oriko sent Kirika to push Hitomi down the stairs, and was the one who burned down Sayaka's home.
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LucidProp
Pocky Eating MafiaDoka
Can I ask why? At the very least, the fluff votes up top don't seem objectionable.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
The fluff is fine. I take issue with this:
We've already discussed the Orikobomb with them, using those very points, and they agreed to do it after the picnic. Rehashing this is in no way worth ditching Sayaka to do a hush-hush privacy huddle with Mami and Homura out of earshot.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet