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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Ugolino said:
Nah, it'll probably get us filed under "quirky/practical joker". Sabrina's never exactly taken herself TOO seriously.

Homura wouldn't be too HAPPY about it, but we're not exactly letting them out so I don't think she'd be TOO worried.

The Sayaka thing...We need to handle that carefully when we get there, but that's not a compelling argument against trying what boils down to a practical joke like her morning wake-up calls.
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You're right, of course. Part of our duty in breaking the system is shattering the "being meguka is suffering" trope, and this certainly contributes. I just wanted to emphasize what we're getting ourselves into here.

There's also the fact that Kirika will probably love this. That's pretty much full justification on its own.
 
Julian Bradshaw said:
There's also the fact that Kirika will probably love this. That's pretty much full justification on its own.
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Mmm... so Kirika basically justifies anything, right?

Let's try.

Hey guys, I think we should SCIENCE! how to absorb the magical power out of megucas to add it to our own, and absorb ALL the power and use that to conquer the world, and I think this would be a good idea- BECAUSE KIRIKA!
 
Redshirt Army said:
Sabrina senses and controls Grief, which takes a physical form. Madoka and Sayaka contained capital G Grief when we examined them pre-contract, and Sabrina's mental voice didn't notice anything different about it compared to the Grief in, say, Mami's soul gem, except there was a lot less of it.

This makes perfect sense when you realize emotions are the source of magic in PMMM - 'mundane' grief doesn't exist any more than 'mundane' hope does- under PMMM metaphysics, both intrinsically warp reality around them in sufficient concentrations.
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And, if I'm not mistaken, both emotions have a major thing in common; they are both very long term in how you feel them. Grief often sticks with you for the rest of your life and as long as you have a goal to work towards, you have hope. This means that an emotion is required to be lasting to be viable as a source of magic. How the emotions last may also explain some of the ways items created by said emotions react. As I said, grief sticks with you forever, but the pain often eases with time and distance. Hope, on the other hand, only lasts as long as you have a goal to work towards, but it grows in strength the closer it is to completion. This also opens up the possibility of other methods of magic separate from the two we know of.
 
ThoughtMaster said:
And, if I'm not mistaken, both emotions have a major thing in common; they are both very long term in how you feel them. Grief often sticks with you for the rest of your life and as long as you have a goal to work towards, you have hope. This means that an emotion is required to be lasting to be viable as a source of magic. How the emotions last may also explain some of the ways items created by said emotions react. As I said, grief sticks with you forever, but the pain often eases with time and distance. Hope, on the other hand, only lasts as long as you have a goal to work towards, but it grows in strength the closer it is to completion. This also opens up the possibility of other methods of magic separate from the two we know of.
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The most obvious example of another type of magic would be Homucifer - she's a love powered demon, after all.

Given that these sorts of things tend to come in pairs, I suspect hatred could also be a viable candidate.
 
Redshirt Army said:
The most obvious example of another type of magic would be Homucifer - she's a love powered demon, after all.

Given that these sorts of things tend to come in pairs, I suspect hatred could also be a viable candidate.
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Hatred seems like a good option to harness if immortality is what you seek. I will never not make that reference, no matter how many people even get it.
 
UbeOne said:
Does Madokami's hope count?
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No - I'm pretty sure that Madokami is fueled by the same kind of magic as normal puella magi, just in obscene amounts. Being hope powered isn't unique to her, basically.

We need to define our terms.

I suggest defining "magic" as "the violation of observed laws of physics caused by proximity and channeling of emotional energy".

We can then say that "white magic" is "magic" where the specific encountered emotion is "hope", and that the vast majority of observed puella magi magic falls into this category.

On the flip side, "black magic" is "magic" where the encountered emotion is "grief", and barriers, familiar creation, and witch kisses all fall into this category.
 
Redshirt Army said:
We can then say that "white magic" is "magic" where the specific encountered emotion is "hope", and that the vast majority of observed puella magi magic falls into this category.

On the flip side, "black magic" is "magic" where the encountered emotion is "grief", and barriers, familiar creation, and witch kisses all fall into this category.
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And Sabrina likes to hop back and forth while Mami watches worriedly.
 
[q]Produce Green Magic with DETERMINATION, WILL POWER, AND FIGHTING SPIRIT!
-[q]It didn't work...!? TRY HARDER!
--[q]Dragon Ball Z style shouting.
---[q]Use Grief to produce power-silhouette of MECHA GURREN ZILLA LAGANN
 
o3o said:
[q]Produce Green Magic with DETERMINATION, WILL POWER, AND FIGHTING SPIRIT!
-[q]It didn't work...!? TRY HARDER!
--[q]Dragon Ball Z style shouting.
---[q]Use Grief to produce power-silhouette of MECHA GURREN ZILLA LAGANN
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Jokes aside, emotions really do warp reality in PMMM metaphysics. I'm not sure any human actually has enough DETERMINATION to actually produce tangible results, but it's at least theoretically possible.

I suspect at least part of the function of a soul gem is to dampen the effects of emotion upon a meguca's thought processes - a normal person would probably go batshit crazy just from the swings from impossible levels of hope to soul-crushing levels of grief. (Which, I mean, meguca do do that, but it takes longer and is less universal than I'd expect if there wasn't any kind of control mechanism.)
 
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o3o said:
[q]Produce Green Magic with DETERMINATION, WILL POWER, AND FIGHTING SPIRIT!
-[q]It didn't work...!? TRY HARDER!
--[q]Dragon Ball Z style shouting.
---[q]Use Grief to produce power-silhouette of MECHA GURREN ZILLA LAGANN[/QUOTE]
----[q] Hitomi pops up out of thin air
-----[q] Oriko leans out the window to check what's going o-
------[q] Oh... it's an Ojou-off
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Redshirt Army said:
Jokes aside, emotions really do warp reality in PMMM metaphysics. I'm not sure any human actually has enough DETERMINATION to actually produce tangible results, but it's at least theoretically possible.
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[q]Even if one mind isn't enough...you'll just have to use more then one mind!
-[q]have all of the mini-sabrinas in your subconcious go into maximum will power mode.
--[q]pay extra attention to the one who insists on wearing star shaped glasses
:V
SPIRAL POWERED SABRINA aside, if we follow this line of thought through, it seems like when a soul is filled with an emotion the entity transforms. We've seen it with Hope (meguca, Godoka), Grief (Witches), and Love (Homucifer)... hmm.

Perhaps the next step in dewitching would be to somehow get a clear seed to feel Hope?
 
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o3o said:
[q]Even if one mind isn't enough...you'll just have to use more then one mind!
-[q]have all of the mini-sabrinas in your subconcious go into maximum will power mode.
--[q]pay extra attention to the one who insists on wearing star shaped glasses
:V
SPIRAL POWERED SABRINA aside, if we follow this line of thought through, it seems like when a soul is filled with an emotion the entity transforms. We've seen it with Hope (meguca, Godoka), Grief (Witches), and Love (Homucifer)... hmm.

Perhaps the next step in dewitching would be to somehow get a clear seed to feel Hope?
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That would require us being able to tangibly effect capital-H Hope.
 
o3o said:
[q]Even if one mind isn't enough...you'll just have to use more then one mind!
-[q]have all of the mini-sabrinas in your subconcious go into maximum will power mode.
--[q]pay extra attention to the one who insists on wearing star shaped glasses
:V
SPIRAL POWERED SABRINA aside, if we follow this line of thought through, it seems like when a soul is filled with an emotion the entity transforms. We've seen it with Hope (meguca, Godoka), Grief (Witches), and Love... hmm.

Perhaps the next step in dewitching would be to somehow get a clear seed to feel Hope?
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Unfortunately, as we're a democracy, Sabrina's feelings balance each other out, so it's hard for her to reach any sort of extreme.

o3o said:
Perhaps the next step in dewitching would be to somehow get a clear seed to feel Hope?
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If Hope and Despair are opposites, generally the absence of Despair is close enough to Hope to work, right?

Maybe Grief Seeds' Souls are broken so as to only tend to Despair, so maybe we need to fix them? Or attach a 'Hope component' to them?

... We need to remember to check up on Aurora. She made some promising progress.
 
Redshirt Army said:
Yup. It's tricker than it sounds, though - just adding magic to it won't make the seed feel hope so much as it will taunt it with our hope.
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[q]put the clear seed in front of the tv
-[q]Marathon the cheesiest, most inspiring and happiest anime you can think of
--[q]start with Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann
Hmm.
Perhaps the soul being anchored to the body is what keeps it "stable"; it has a form to default to, so to speak. By separating it from "yourself", it becomes more flexible, which is why it can be transformed via emotional overload...?
 
o3o said:
[q]put the clear seed in front of the tv
-[q]Marathon the cheesiest, most inspiring and happiest anime you can think of
--[q]start with Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann
Hmm.
Perhaps the soul being anchored to the body is what keeps it "stable"; it has a form to default to, so to speak. By separating it from "yourself", it becomes more flexible, which is why it can be transformed via emotional overload...?
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That's... a pretty good insight. A Witch forming is always preceded by a magical girl's soul gem severing the connection to its body.
 
Onmur said:
Unfortunately, as we're a democracy, Sabrina's feelings balance each other out, so it's hard for her to reach any sort of extreme.


If Hope and Despair are opposites, generally the absence of Despair is close enough to Hope to work, right?

Maybe Grief Seeds' Souls are broken so as to only tend to Despair, so maybe we need to fix them? Or attach a 'Hope component' to them?

... We need to remember to check up on Aurora. She made some promising progress.
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LostDeviljho said:
That would require us being able to tangibly effect capital-H Hope.
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By observation of the Soul Gem, we can see that grief and hope have an inverse relationship. However, merely taking away grief does not turn a seed colorful - it only makes it clear. Perhaps the loss of grief generates hope? Or perhaps grief is the after effect of "consuming" hope...?

Remember the "core" of the witch inside each Seed...?

If we say that's the fundamental essence of the soul, perhaps that's what's broken - the core's ability to generate hope.
 
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