- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Karlsbridge and Old Town
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Aliya
Someone I might become
- Location
- Kazakhstan
- Pronouns
- They/She/It
People going that first option will be noticeable too, as if it is also as good as option two, are, imo, succumbing to the quester diesease where one options actually has upsides 9f several option and, as such, superior. That is almost always not the case. Want the flashiest showcase against corruption? Put the stone in the New Town.
[X] Bridge of Death and New Town
[X] Karlsbridge and Old Town
[X] Karlsbridge and Old Town
Night_stalker
Slava Ukraini!
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Karlsbridge and Old Town
- Location
- Canada
[X] Karlsbridge and Old Town
[X] Bridge of Death and New Town
[X] Bridge of Death and New Town
There is also the matter of New Town being the expert's opinion:
People with wizards, who are the experts on Chaos corruption and magic in general, know this will do the most good in the long run. Old Town is exchanging short term comfort for more suffering in the long term even in Praag.
People with wizards, who are the experts on Chaos corruption and magic in general, know this will do the most good in the long run. Old Town is exchanging short term comfort for more suffering in the long term even in Praag.
- Location
- Oklahoma
The first option will be noticeable too.
The second option will be more noticeable.
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
Think about this in terms of sequencing.
Old town > death bridge: "that stone that suppresses all the nasty stuff, you want to put up more in the worse places? Heck yes!"
Death bridge > Old Town: "That stone that made chaos go crazy and start swarming everyone? And you want to put one up right where we all sleep and work? Heck no!"
[X] Karlsbridge and Old Town
It's why I'm voting for the first option. We are doing all of them eventually, this first one is for the public acclaim.
Locals always get a veto. Sledgehammers are everywhere and destroying a thing that is making the local area more dangerous is a straightforward thing to do.
So we don't want locals to think waystones make the area more dangerous.
Tyranny is kinda the second option here. Doing a thing that the locals fear but the noble wants and is forcing upon them anyways? That's, like, the opposite of the story we want.
If it's a symbol that only actually means that to wizards and a few others they spend time to convince, then it's not a great symbol.
Or, to put it another way, if we want a symbol of making places safe from chaos again, we want a symbol that common people understand.
It won't be though? That's the point. The one that will be obvious and popular is the one that the common people like.
The new town is effective, but it's only going to be that symbol to the thread and the colleges, basically.
We picked Praag for political reasons. So let's not undermine that.
Old town > death bridge: "that stone that suppresses all the nasty stuff, you want to put up more in the worse places? Heck yes!"
Death bridge > Old Town: "That stone that made chaos go crazy and start swarming everyone? And you want to put one up right where we all sleep and work? Heck no!"
[X] Karlsbridge and Old Town
It's why I'm voting for the first option. We are doing all of them eventually, this first one is for the public acclaim.
Locals always get a veto. Sledgehammers are everywhere and destroying a thing that is making the local area more dangerous is a straightforward thing to do.
So we don't want locals to think waystones make the area more dangerous.
Tyranny is kinda the second option here. Doing a thing that the locals fear but the noble wants and is forcing upon them anyways? That's, like, the opposite of the story we want.
If it's a symbol that only actually means that to wizards and a few others they spend time to convince, then it's not a great symbol.
Or, to put it another way, if we want a symbol of making places safe from chaos again, we want a symbol that common people understand.
It won't be though? That's the point. The one that will be obvious and popular is the one that the common people like.
The new town is effective, but it's only going to be that symbol to the thread and the colleges, basically.
We picked Praag for political reasons. So let's not undermine that.
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- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
This right here cuts to the heart of the issue: Is Warhammer a setting that is grimdark, or is it a setting that fights grim darkness? Because if it's the former, then people dying is routine. The little people do not matter, they are an expendable resource. All that matters is what the big important men think.
But I don't think that fits Mathilde's story or the world she lives in.
Yes, this is a dark world, and oftentimes large numbers of people die. Sometimes it's soldiers fighting to protect others. Sometimes, it's innocent civilians who pay the price. But we can change that. When we destroyed Castle Drakenhof. When we retook Karak Eight Peaks. And here, today, when we rebuild the broken Waystone network. In a grindark world, victories are only delaying actions against the end. But in this one, we've seen that we. Can. Fight. Back! We have a device that quite literally fights back against the grim darkness. This city is one of the most Dhar tainted places in the world outside the Chaos Wastes, where the people who live here are resigned to death by Chaos, Dhar poison, and magical horrors - and we have something that can save them. Something to bring back life and hope to the city. And, yes, economic benefits and land reclamation in an an abstract sense. But that's not why we're here. We're here to "change the world we live in."
Mathilde doesn't want to live in a world that burns little girls to death. And she has never, not once, stopped fighting for that. Rebuilding the waystone network off a pile of corpses beacause of course people will die, it's normal goes against everything she's fought for and every reason why our decisions have lead us to here. Let's fight for hope. Let's fight for life. You want to stick it in Chaos's eye? Fight Chaos not just as a physical enemy, but also as a rotten, corruptive way of viewing the world.
[X] Karlsbridge and Old Town
The option leads to more suffering overall, otherwise the wizards who are the experts in magic and the nobles who are the experts in war would not call it out as preferable, it just tricks the people of Praag by playing on their biases.
[X] Karlsbridge and Old Town
Because while starting out by ramming a stone spear down the throat of Chaos is metal as fuck, and very convincing, I also think just making the life of most people better is really cool too. The way the symbology comes together is also just *chef's kiss*, and totally the sort of think Mathilde would giddly giggle about (internally).
And anyway, we can ram a stone spear down the throat of Chaos a bit later, when we will have the hands of Pragg on the haft. But as the message to send, "life will be better for you" is a pretty great one.
Because while starting out by ramming a stone spear down the throat of Chaos is metal as fuck, and very convincing, I also think just making the life of most people better is really cool too. The way the symbology comes together is also just *chef's kiss*, and totally the sort of think Mathilde would giddly giggle about (internally).
And anyway, we can ram a stone spear down the throat of Chaos a bit later, when we will have the hands of Pragg on the haft. But as the message to send, "life will be better for you" is a pretty great one.
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[X] Karlsbridge and Old Town
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
You say this like we aren't going to do all of them anyways. The question isn't if, it's "in what order".
But in the interest of helping the world the most, the common people are not going to bankroll deployment.
Local nobles like this guy are.
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
We assume they are. We don't actually have any idea how the nations we are giving waystones to intend to fund them, or even how expensive they really are.
And honestly, I expect most nobles to react in a way that mirrors the reaction of the common people, rather than a way that mirrors the wizards. This guy in Praag is called out as being the sort to listen to wizards, but 'most politically resonant' implies to me that the vibes will be most widespread choosing that option.
Just for clarity: The local noble will still be happy because there will be less horrible shit. He just won't be quite as happy as with the other option.
This vote is not about who likes this and who doesn't. The only people who don't like it are Chaos. Everyone else will be happy about it.
This vote is about who likes it the most. Everyone gets a baseline +2 to their "headpats for Mathilde gauge", and this vote is about who has a +5 instead.
The order can still cause more or less harm depending on the order its done. Putting off new town gives the things inside more time to plan.
Looking at the map, Death Bridge is actually within the walls of the Old City, so it's a fairly safe location. From there, it sounds like the army will march into Newtown, secure an area, plant a new waystone, and keep moving onwards. Mostly it's not the waystones agitating the locals, it's the military exerting control over a lawless part of the city. The waystones are just for holding the territory after the army has cleared it—something which they haven't yet been able to do.
And Newtown is pretty big—it's easily the largest district in the city.
Going for Karlsbridge makes life safer for the law abiding citizens of the city. Going for Death bridge allows the Z'ra to send in the army to reclaim the part of the city where he holds no authority.
And Newtown is pretty big—it's easily the largest district in the city.
Going for Karlsbridge makes life safer for the law abiding citizens of the city. Going for Death bridge allows the Z'ra to send in the army to reclaim the part of the city where he holds no authority.
And the normal people will also be happy with the death bridge, just not immediately.
If the argument is "we will do all anyway." Upsetting the population for a short amount of time is preferable to having the local authorities not fully behind the incredibly expensive infrastructure project.
Edit: should not forget to vote
[X] Bridge of Death and New Town
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When news come to a guy in bretonia, he's going to hear, respectively:
They put a waystone and then:
- people stopped having nightmares every night, and streets became safer
- gribbles came out of the dark books they were hiding, allowing local noble to cut them down and remove the threat
- a lot of lands became hospitable and productive, allowing tzar to grant them to his supporters
- dead stopped raising spontaneously, making local priests job a lot easier