Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
They've had almost 200 years to plan.
And besides- if you see riling up chaos as a win, then giving them more time to bring in more forces is good: it lets us wipe them out en masse.
We do in fact want to do that, there is a worrying number of monsters in hellholes throughout the Old World and most of them do not even have a local population. The issue here is unique to Praag because it is inhabited, the impetus to cut out the worst of the corruption applies to places far and wide like Mordheim, we need to convince nobles we can do that so they will commit troops
- Location
- Lowton
[X] Karlsbridge and Old Town
No they have not unless you are positing them foretelling new Waystones being a thing.
Also the capacity of Chaos mutants to do more awful shit with more planning is not matched by bringing in a few more rotas, this is magical ritual bullshit so unless you are proposing holding off a decade or two for a new generation of Ice Witches to be trained from scratch it does not work.
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They didn't have time to plan for waystones, which is the point I think he's trying to make. None of the griblies have made plans for their very existence being threatened by a hunk of rock.
Edit: I got weberd
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[X] Bridge of Death and New Town
The most convincing point for me is "a Waystone placed here will be safe from retaliation by any thinking servants of Chaos that might be found within Praag." The historic first Waystone getting all the publicity means it will inevitably be targeted by cultists, and Mathilde knows from experience that Waystones can be blocked and corrupted, so keeping it where half the army has eyes on it 24/7 avoids the risks of a PR disaster down the line.
It's still physically in the middle of Old Town; if it slows down the visible benefits to the locals, it's only because the slightly obscured threat of monsters and madness is being dealt with first. And with the Z'ra fully onboard, I imagine he'll happily be singing the praises of the Waystones to his people for the rest of his life, because HE gets to be the guy under whose rule Praag was restored.
The most convincing point for me is "a Waystone placed here will be safe from retaliation by any thinking servants of Chaos that might be found within Praag." The historic first Waystone getting all the publicity means it will inevitably be targeted by cultists, and Mathilde knows from experience that Waystones can be blocked and corrupted, so keeping it where half the army has eyes on it 24/7 avoids the risks of a PR disaster down the line.
It's still physically in the middle of Old Town; if it slows down the visible benefits to the locals, it's only because the slightly obscured threat of monsters and madness is being dealt with first. And with the Z'ra fully onboard, I imagine he'll happily be singing the praises of the Waystones to his people for the rest of his life, because HE gets to be the guy under whose rule Praag was restored.
- Location
- The internet
[X] Karlsbridge and Old Town
Somic
It's meow or never
- Pronouns
- She/Her
For me, a large part of the reason for choosing Praag was that the people there suffer from Dhar the most, and will suffer the most in the upcoming Everchosen invasion. I want to make people suffer less! I want to plop down that Waystone in the actually populated part of the city and go "see? Now your lives and homes are safer!"
The boil is gonna be lanced regardless, and that's cool and awesome, but most of all I just want to improve Praag, as a city that people live in, rather than just sucking the most Dhar out of the worst wastelands as soon as possible.
The boil is gonna be lanced regardless, and that's cool and awesome, but most of all I just want to improve Praag, as a city that people live in, rather than just sucking the most Dhar out of the worst wastelands as soon as possible.
- Location
- Argentina
Bringing attention to the Old Town with the first waystone is also no the kind of thing I want to do to the local population. They are used to the alleys screaming at night, not outright mutant mobs trying to destroy the nasty stone which claws at their souls.
No matter the PR, I actually want to start chipping at the mutants so that they can hurt the peasants less.
No matter the PR, I actually want to start chipping at the mutants so that they can hurt the peasants less.
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
Who are we trying to impress? Ourselves? Or the people that have to live with these things?
They'll have all the time to plan that they need after it's up. The question then becomes, does it matter to have a few weeks of surprise?
They can attack it while we are putting it up, in which case it would matter, but that's also when we have the greatest concentration of forces and ability to deal with it.
They can also attach it after it is up, in which case it won't really matter if they started planning the day it went up or a few weeks before, they can delay until they are ready either way.
That's every option. If you want them to actually hurt the peasants less, that's the first option. If you are ok with the presents getting hurt in exchange for chipping away a bit faster, that's the second.
They'll have all the time to plan that they need after it's up. The question then becomes, does it matter to have a few weeks of surprise?
They can attack it while we are putting it up, in which case it would matter, but that's also when we have the greatest concentration of forces and ability to deal with it.
They can also attach it after it is up, in which case it won't really matter if they started planning the day it went up or a few weeks before, they can delay until they are ready either way.
That's every option. If you want them to actually hurt the peasants less, that's the first option. If you are ok with the presents getting hurt in exchange for chipping away a bit faster, that's the second.
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- Location
- Argentina
My argument is that the mobs of chaos cultists will come, so put the stone away from the population.
The nobles who are the only ones with the resources to pay for them or the soldiers to guard them.
Now of course technically it is possible that the nobles will actually hate the New Town option because most of them do not listen to wizards but do listen to rumors of upset Kislevite citizens, but given how the options were presented I think it is more likely that a more straightforward reading is the correct one.
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- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
That's not what the text of the options say. Only Option #2 is indicated to have that effect
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
I don't think this is true, given that there are already Waystones in Praag that aren't being actively attacked, at least not in a way that draws notice:
So, like, it's not the case that Praag has no Waystones and putting one up will cause it to be a lightning rod for attacks. It's got Waystones already. We're just adding more.
the people who are part of the group that have the legal rights to say 'no' or at least throw a fit to future waystones.
[x] Bridge of Death and New Town
I don't think that really matters. If Chaos can attack the Old Town, it will do so anyway, because having sacrifices would be valuable. And if we put a Waystone there, we will also have more forces in the Old Town to protect the people
[X] Bridge of Death and New Town
Neither Laurelorn or Ulthuan will care about how effective waystones are in Praag. Bretonnia will be a matter of the Damsels saying that Bretonnia needs waystones and everyone else working it out. Obviously the nobility will be paying for waystones there. The Empire is probably going to be more focused on the corruption being cleansed than the gribblies. The peasantry and bourgeiosie will not be paying for waystones in the Empire. It's going to be the aristocracy. They are the ones who own the land. Half of the Empire thinks of Praag as if it is in the chaos wastes already. Mathilde also has the backing of the Emperor on the matter.
As far as Marienburg, Tilea, and Estalia are concerned,they're going to hear about it most if we put it on the Bridge of Death. They're also going to see it coming in to where merchants normally come in to trade. That's where the merchant quarter is. The mutants are going to be riled up in on the other side of Praag. This applies to all the nations, but they're the only ones who aren't also members. I don't think it much matters who pays for waystones in Marienburg, Tilea, and Estalia as far as where we place the first waystone.
Edit: Misread the map. It's actually the Karlsbad bridge that merchants will notice most.
What other nations? No, seriously, what other nations? Kislev will mostly be a matter of the Tzar saying that Kislev will get waystones, then the Boyars working that out for themselves. The Z'ra of Praag is the guy that the Boyarin are going to have the most contact with in Praag. So their attitude will rub off the most compared to the others.
Neither Laurelorn or Ulthuan will care about how effective waystones are in Praag. Bretonnia will be a matter of the Damsels saying that Bretonnia needs waystones and everyone else working it out. Obviously the nobility will be paying for waystones there. The Empire is probably going to be more focused on the corruption being cleansed than the gribblies. The peasantry and bourgeiosie will not be paying for waystones in the Empire. It's going to be the aristocracy. They are the ones who own the land. Half of the Empire thinks of Praag as if it is in the chaos wastes already. Mathilde also has the backing of the Emperor on the matter.
As far as Marienburg, Tilea, and Estalia are concerned,
Edit: Misread the map. It's actually the Karlsbad bridge that merchants will notice most.
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Chaos isn't one big blob that wants to feed the Gods. Corrupted as they may be the inhabitants of New Town do not want to die which means they will act differently in the face of an existential threat vs just wanting boons from the Dark Gods.
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
I think the difference here is that you are assuming the second option says 'this will please the nobles' rather than 'this will please this particular noble'.
I'm assuming that other nobles are going to get most of their information from the rumors and stories coming out of Praag via travelers and traders, and that means they'll mirror the common folks more.
You are assuming that other nobles will react like the local guy who listens to his wizard and is willing to accept a 'this looks bad, but it's actually good' explanation.
Even the other noble we have info on, the tsar, does not prefer the death bridge option.
Again, we will be doing all of these. The one that happens first is a PR question.
And yeah, death bridge is going to have the most visible effects. But the effects are going to be hard to interpret as positive. before the others start going up
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- Location
- Argentina
If that were the case we could use options other than 2 and eventually clean new town without shedding blood.
There will be blood when chaos notices what we are doing. Otherwise there would not even be an option if we could win without spending human lives.
I answered this in an edit, though I was clearly too late. Here it is again for the sake of clarity.
Sorry for making the order messy like this.
I've thrown together a badly drawn map of proposed waystone locations and my speculation on their routes through the city.
Green is Karlsbridge and the Old Town, Red is Death Bridge and the Newtown, Yellow is the Bleakness and the cult of Dzah, and Blue is River Gate and the wilds of Praag.
Green will peacefully affect the most populated part of the city, Blue actually pushes back the Wastes, Yellow will prevent the undead from rising, and Red will enable a military incursion into the lawless parts of the city to reassert authority over them.
Green is Karlsbridge and the Old Town, Red is Death Bridge and the Newtown, Yellow is the Bleakness and the cult of Dzah, and Blue is River Gate and the wilds of Praag.
Green will peacefully affect the most populated part of the city, Blue actually pushes back the Wastes, Yellow will prevent the undead from rising, and Red will enable a military incursion into the lawless parts of the city to reassert authority over them.