Last edited:
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
-
- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
TimEd
Meteor maker
I'm getting talked around to picking the Bridge of Death option. It's the most visible option for us and the nobles, even if the citizens won't thank us for it, and it's also the most "luxury" option that is still defensible compared to as a beachhead against Chaos outside the walls that #3 is. This means that the 2 other "low hanging fruit" options are gonna be right there and obvious for the local Z'ra to champion which direction would be of most benefit to expand to next.
The Z'ra will definitely champion for this cause afterwards because #2 pleases the Z'ra and also hopefully reverse the Bridge of Death perception, where instead of an enlistment of death option, it becomes an enlistment to the death of Praag's enemies. #1 would please the people, but it would still need the Z'ra to be what we need against Chaos, that being the frontline against Chaos. #3 would be a concrete beachhead against Chaos, but again making best use of that would require the local ruler and population to go along with manning those defenses. So #2 gives the Z'ra all the power and leverage needed to "show" the people of Praag how smart and wise and visible the decision would be in benefiting the city while also giving him the political capital and hopefully desire to bend the others to what we want in the first place without us having to do anything more, something that I believe #1 and to a lesser extent #3 would have likely required of us (or at least our Waystone Project group).
The Z'ra will definitely champion for this cause afterwards because #2 pleases the Z'ra and also hopefully reverse the Bridge of Death perception, where instead of an enlistment of death option, it becomes an enlistment to the death of Praag's enemies. #1 would please the people, but it would still need the Z'ra to be what we need against Chaos, that being the frontline against Chaos. #3 would be a concrete beachhead against Chaos, but again making best use of that would require the local ruler and population to go along with manning those defenses. So #2 gives the Z'ra all the power and leverage needed to "show" the people of Praag how smart and wise and visible the decision would be in benefiting the city while also giving him the political capital and hopefully desire to bend the others to what we want in the first place without us having to do anything more, something that I believe #1 and to a lesser extent #3 would have likely required of us (or at least our Waystone Project group).
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The trouble I see with the Deathbridge deployment is... Well, it sells waystones as something you send people into the deep taint to die to place and secure, because that's what we did here.
I'm not saying that to claim it would make waystones less appealing to nobility purchasing it. Rather, I'm saying the locals lives being made much worse before it gets better itself would probably be repeated far more often if we go that route.
All approaches will be taken one way or another, including in future deployments - but I'd like a kinder template of action to be the standard, the approach buyers at least consider first.
I'm not saying that to claim it would make waystones less appealing to nobility purchasing it. Rather, I'm saying the locals lives being made much worse before it gets better itself would probably be repeated far more often if we go that route.
All approaches will be taken one way or another, including in future deployments - but I'd like a kinder template of action to be the standard, the approach buyers at least consider first.
Last edited:
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
No, clicking the links shows tiny maps. Honestly linking to wiki-hosted images is always hell. Saidoro's links don't work properly either.
Why? Why and how?
Rehosted it on imgur and redirected the links.
- Location
- Earth
This be the internet. While links are convenient, finding full sized maps isn't hard. QM should not worry about it much.
Onto voting:
@Boney : I would like to propose another possible placement. Well, two, maybe.
1:
[] Place the First New Waystone between the Temple of Ursun and the Temple of Salyak, in the forest near the edge of The Magnus Gardens. Honor the Gods of Kislev, the Emperor that made the Colleges, and the Alliance between Empire and Kislev.
or 2:
[] Alternately, consider placing the First New Waystone on the side of the Lynsk flowing through the town, so that the Temple of Salyak, the Temple of Ursun and the new Waystone make an equilateral triangle, so no one can say you favored either God. It would place the Waystone on the river, but just outside of The Magnus Gardens... which might, in time, be expanded to include it, as its effects prove themselves. Still honors the Gods of Kislev, but keeps the Waystone on the riverbank. Might need to purchase/demolish one home/dock for this, through.
EDIT: Ursun is the patron God of Kislev as a whole, and Salyak is their Goddess of Healing(and comfort).
EDIT2: Also, links are working for me now.
Onto voting:
@Boney : I would like to propose another possible placement. Well, two, maybe.
1:
[] Place the First New Waystone between the Temple of Ursun and the Temple of Salyak, in the forest near the edge of The Magnus Gardens. Honor the Gods of Kislev, the Emperor that made the Colleges, and the Alliance between Empire and Kislev.
or 2:
[] Alternately, consider placing the First New Waystone on the side of the Lynsk flowing through the town, so that the Temple of Salyak, the Temple of Ursun and the new Waystone make an equilateral triangle, so no one can say you favored either God. It would place the Waystone on the river, but just outside of The Magnus Gardens... which might, in time, be expanded to include it, as its effects prove themselves. Still honors the Gods of Kislev, but keeps the Waystone on the riverbank. Might need to purchase/demolish one home/dock for this, through.
EDIT: Ursun is the patron God of Kislev as a whole, and Salyak is their Goddess of Healing(and comfort).
EDIT2: Also, links are working for me now.
Last edited:
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
So does our belt surround us in fire if Mathilde walks though new town?
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Are we going to bother with tributaries here in Pragg or just put more waystones anywhere that we could put a tributary?
That part of Praag is really out of the way, putting up a Waystone there doesn't make as much of an impression as on the other sites. The Karlsbridge location is right next to the Magnus Gardens and the West Side location does a lot more good for a Cult with much more local influence. The Cult of Ursun is sidelined in Praag due to being perceived as a Gospodar God, and the Cult of Salyak spends all their influence doing their thing.
That's someone else's problem. Mathilde isn't going to directly overseeing every single Waystone going up, she's getting everything lined up and then moving on, like those Jades putting up the tributaries but on a larger scale.
SaltyWaffles
I am dissapoint, son
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Links are broken for me.
The protector would be much bigger on second option, though. It's the one that brings the fight to the chaos.
Ranald the Protector is about protecting people from tyranny, he is not about protecting people from Dhar. I know people like to just give him all the good boy traits, but this has nothing to do with him.
I like this option, so I might be biased, but I think that this place will help us the most. It's gives us a reputation, it would directly show influence of Waystone, and has almost no downsides.
Of course, it isn't directly aim on Z'ra, but having working solution to city's corruption isn't something you can turn your back to. And if Praag is under influence of Z'ra, opinion of its citizens will affect Z'ra to some degree. Plus, it will help with other Waystones in city.
And it's important that it will help the biggest part of population. Children, pregnant women, sick people, working people, etc. It's also give town more resources for future.
Protecting biggest part of people, strengthening backlines and visibly showing power of Waystone is very attractive to me.
It's a mixed option for me. Sure, it will please Z'ra, but it could displeased citizens and consume city's resources, which might affect placement of next stones in town.
"Sword in a nest of corruption" sounds good, but Praag is in bad position. As I see it, there is no good parts of city, only less damaged, and even now significant part of city's power is spend on protecting status quo.
I think Praag needs better defence and supply lines before attack.
It's a good place not only for Tzar, but also for foreign leaders. If we show that Waystone can give country more resources, it will rise interest of powerful people.
It would help to spread Waystones more, but it would be more in places, where it will be economically beneficial, and less in places, where it would be potentially needed more.
Plus, we're already building Waystone in Empire. If we want to go this path, it would be more effective to do this in there.
It's good to help influential religious group, and it will help the citizens, especially with crematorium been near. But I don't like that Waystone's work will be less visible than in other places. As our first Waystone, it should show people it's influence, and placing it here will go against it.
- Pronouns
- He/His/etc
I think (and someone else check me) you're conflating two different traits there.
Ranald Protects the small, the overlooked, those who have no-one else who will save them. Doesn't matter what it is threatening you, only who you are.
Ranald Overthrows the rich and powerful. Doesn't matter if you're a tyrant or not, if you're at the top of the heap then Ranald is in favour of you being toppled.
- Location
- California, USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It's tough, because I think for Praag specifically Karlsbridge is the best option, in terms of how we might want to go about this and want Praag to react. But in terms of reputation given I think it's only okay... the people who say the citizenry are not those who get to decide on Waystone matters are absolutely correct, no matter how good it would feel to focus on their betterment.
But then, we would be helping them anyways, so is a reputation for helping the common people really what we want here? Would it help us focus on people who need help, or would it just mean we get less fearful stares over the inevitable? Are the people going to die when we get to the Bridge of Death going to die anyway, or would we be playing with lives just to put on a show for the Z'ra?
I'm so torn.
But then, we would be helping them anyways, so is a reputation for helping the common people really what we want here? Would it help us focus on people who need help, or would it just mean we get less fearful stares over the inevitable? Are the people going to die when we get to the Bridge of Death going to die anyway, or would we be playing with lives just to put on a show for the Z'ra?
I'm so torn.
Last edited:
- Location
- somewhere over there.
- Pronouns
- They/It
I think it should be option one here. We've already gotten support from the highest levels of most societies where we'd be looking at putting these, which limits the effect even the most obstinate local powers can have. If that's coupled with the support of the common people, they end up cornered on both ends and it shouldn't be terribly difficult to push them to fall in line. Option one also gives us a chance to shape actual public sentiment about the waystones and make it so that the people who will live their lives around them and spend their lives protecting them know why they're doing it.
We've had debates going back and forth through the thread about how we could best future proof waystones and make sure that the knowledge that they're worth protecting can outlive the countries that they're placed in if needed. This is a way to do that by adding "waystones made life good" to the local oral tradition. This is how you end up with a bunch of militia defending a rural waystone with their lives rather than tearing it down because the milk spoiled early and it must be the fault of that big rock with the spooky runes.
We've had debates going back and forth through the thread about how we could best future proof waystones and make sure that the knowledge that they're worth protecting can outlive the countries that they're placed in if needed. This is a way to do that by adding "waystones made life good" to the local oral tradition. This is how you end up with a bunch of militia defending a rural waystone with their lives rather than tearing it down because the milk spoiled early and it must be the fault of that big rock with the spooky runes.
- Location
- Canada
It's a bit hyperbolic to say that the Z'ra won't care if the Waystone gets set up in Karlsbridge and Old Town
While those are the least threatened areas, it's Praag, "least tainted" is still very dangerous by reasonable metrics
There will be very visible quieting of the Winds in the most densely populated area of the city
The Bridge of Death and New Town appeal to Z'ra as a spear with which to strike at and root out the blight at its heart
Whereas Karlsbridge and Old Town appeal to the Z'ra as a shield that keeps the blight out and keeps the citizenry safe
That is the biggest difference between how they paint the Waystones
As the tip of the spear to drive into blighted territory, faster and more aggressive
Or as a protective bulwark to be gradually expanded, safer and more gradual
And which alters how the project itself is perceived accordingly
Stirland and the Karaz Ankor would presumably expect much more aggressive placement in their territories if we initially push aggressively in Praag
Or conversely more conservative and gradual ramping up if we initially place more defensively in Praag
Karlsbridge is also noted to be the most politically resonant as well, making it more of a political symbol even though it technically does less
Right under the a monument to the locally beloved Z'ra Karl XII, right beside the Fire Spire on one side and the Magnus Garden on the other
The sheer proximity to so many landmarks is honestly kinda absurd
While those are the least threatened areas, it's Praag, "least tainted" is still very dangerous by reasonable metrics
There will be very visible quieting of the Winds in the most densely populated area of the city
The Bridge of Death and New Town appeal to Z'ra as a spear with which to strike at and root out the blight at its heart
Whereas Karlsbridge and Old Town appeal to the Z'ra as a shield that keeps the blight out and keeps the citizenry safe
That is the biggest difference between how they paint the Waystones
As the tip of the spear to drive into blighted territory, faster and more aggressive
Or as a protective bulwark to be gradually expanded, safer and more gradual
And which alters how the project itself is perceived accordingly
Stirland and the Karaz Ankor would presumably expect much more aggressive placement in their territories if we initially push aggressively in Praag
Or conversely more conservative and gradual ramping up if we initially place more defensively in Praag
Karlsbridge is also noted to be the most politically resonant as well, making it more of a political symbol even though it technically does less
Right under the a monument to the locally beloved Z'ra Karl XII, right beside the Fire Spire on one side and the Magnus Garden on the other
The sheer proximity to so many landmarks is honestly kinda absurd
Last edited:
That first one would doubtless be popular with Mathilde and the thread in general, but it does not exist. It's Gambler, Thief, Liar and Revolutionary. Ranald dislikes Chaos for the same reason all the gods of man do, he does not want to get eaten.
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- He/Him
What about establishing the first stone somewhere around the citadel and then subsequent one through the square of kisses (which despite the name, is a military parade square) into Newtown? For a message of "Kislev is reclaiming its strength"
Text from informational post:
"God of revolution" is the extreme of Ranald. And "Protector of defenceless" is very much exist. At least in this quest.
There's not any major problem there to very visibly solve. The Citadel never fell and the Square still works fine as a muster ground during the day.
None of that is specifically assisting the poor against that which exists outside of civilization. If you are in a forest and trying to not get eaten by beastmen even if you are poor you do not call on the Protector you call to Taal, or if you must invoke Ranald it would be the Gambler for luck.